Player's Council Discussion Thread

[Rachel.L]

Bear, agree

Thas, when the senior most person is the one getting your report, there is no where else to go. Or so I was told. And you may be willing to punish friends, even slap them on the wrist. Others are not. Additionally, I'm not talking IG only.

 

[DeletedUser41523]

For me, well let's just say I will probably not be running for the GPC after my six months is over (you can all rejoice).

You already know my opinion on how things got handled at the start there. But for what its worth, this run around you got with Inno is BS and I don't think anyone can blame you for their inability to recognize the major issues. In the end, you took major concerns to them and they decided to reject it. So I'm not sure what more can be done on the council's end. Apparently city colors > questionable modding and spam.

 

[DeletedUser46395]

I'm not saying that things aren't handled correctly at the moment; what I am saying is that there is a general perception out there from the players I talk to that things aren't right; "known" botters seem to get away completely untouched, fair players who spend 24 hours non-stop on the game (a sad thing to do, I accept!) appear to get bans without any seemingly fair appeal process (the process is certainly in breach of the principles of natural justice), and people thought to be the friends of some mods are thought to get away with lighter punishments. As I say, these are the perceptions of players I talk to, not necessarily my own views, but they are very common. These things aren't allowed to be discussed on forum, and if we can't even raise this, or put forward suggestions for at least some transparency, it does make me wonder why we're doing it and question Inno's commitment to the council process.

 

[Rachel.L]

Again, bear, I agree (esp with whether or not council is just another layer of bs). But with hands tied, gpc can only do so much. And not sure you, mik, and the few ppl who care enough to read this forum can do jack to get big issues done.

 

[maxilex]

In terms of spam, there could be some small changes that would help, rather than dealing with the problem as a whole. Given it is almost impossible to consistently define spam, that always going to be difficult, but - it must be relatively easy to say, stop a player being able to send support or attack from a city to the same city in say, less than 15 minutes. that would cut a lot of it.

The other approach is to design us an interface that can cope with it. I appreciate that isn't an overnight thing, but I need to hear it is on the table.

Did the subject of VM get raised? If not - can it be next time - that needs an overhaul.

If they could implement some of the most critical features currently obtained from plug ins, we could ditch the plug ins, and that would help a lot. If they are prepared to listen, then we can list what we use the most.

 

[DeletedUser54192]

it must be relatively easy to say, stop a player being able to send support or attack from a city to the same city in say, less than 15 minutes. that would cut a lot of it.

Unfortunately, that would make sniping so much harder, as you would only get 1 attempt per travel time (and for short TT snipes, it might prevent you from having more than one attempt, no matter how many anchors you have). While your idea would help deal with spam, it would also screw up one of the main two defense tactics in the game.

 

[maxilex]

Unfortunately, that would make sniping so much harder, as you would only get 1 attempt per travel time (and for short TT snipes, it might prevent you from having more than one attempt, no matter how many anchors you have). While your idea would help deal with spam, it would also screw up one of the main two defense tactics in the game.

How so? If the try is messed up, you cancel..

Look, I dunno, but simple fixes are what I'm brainstorming, but the best solution by far, is an interface that can deal with it.

 

[DeletedUser54192]

How so? If the try is messed up, you cancel..

Most people can get at least 2-3 tries per sniping attempt. Would the suggested spamming solution not block the second and third attempts on a particular travel time?

EDIT: If you meant that you can't send it if there is an ongoing command to that city, then I apologise. I thought you meant that you couldn't send at all within 15 mins afterwards, even if you cancelled. (It would block one technique of defensive sniping still.)

Look, I dunno, but simple fixes are what I'm brainstorming, but the best solution by far, is an interface that can deal with it.

Completely agree with this.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well no, I don't understand at all that they can't provide such information to people who have signed an NDA. (Non Disclosure Agreement). Could you explain, please?

Because it's still not your business? Read again what's the GPC goal.

You should provide feedback on game changes that are planned or that should be done. However, this feedback should be constructive and professional (even though it comes from an ordinary player). What have you done, resp. what do you want to do? Overwhelm them with ideas (which are not considered in every detail... it's just shouting in the dark) and complaints.

Inno wanted to organize the GPC because of an opportunity to have a feedback source which isn't too time-consuming to manage. Why do you think there are 3 parts? If you forward such amount of things to them, then you can't expect that something will change. No, it won't. You should go and choose a really hot topic, discuss it with other players (maybe directly in the game via mass mails etc. or arrange in co-op with the team an IGM leading to the forum) and afterwards forward this report of detailed description of the problem (where is the problem, why it's a problem etc.) and suggested solutions which are again considered in detail and discussed with player. It'll be much more useful than trying to kill them by ideas and complaints. Be focused.

I understand that you want to take your chance to finally share your several-years-frustration with the dev team but this is not the right way, trust me. By this, the GPC value will get decrease as it can seem that it doesnt fulfil its role.

On 26th October, an interesting article was published on the DevBlog. It's almost 2 weeks and there is no annoucement, no discussion... so, no feedback. I'm sure players don't know about these incoming changes. Why? You're focused on many things which aren't your business. Please understand that the channel between the internal council and the devs shouldn't serve to share every single thought which is mentioned somewhere. You represent the community, not only chosen ones.

And question - have you tried that new event? Have you provided a feedback? Have you engaged the community to do that?

 

[DeletedUser46395]

Because it's still not your business? Read again what's the GPC goal.

You should provide feedback on game changes that are planned or that should be done. However, this feedback should be constructive and professional (even though it comes from an ordinary player). What have you done, resp. what do you want to do? Overwhelm them with ideas (which are not considered in every detail... it's just shouting in the dark) and complaints.

Inno wanted to organize the GPC because of an opportunity to have a feedback source which isn't too time-consuming to manage. Why do you think there are 3 parts? If you forward such amount of things to them, then you can't expect that something will change. No, it won't. You should go and choose a really hot topic, discuss it with other players (maybe directly in the game via mass mails etc. or arrange in co-op with the team an IGM leading to the forum) and afterwards forward this report of detailed description of the problem (where is the problem, why it's a problem etc.) and suggested solutions which are again considered in detail and discussed with player. It'll be much more useful than trying to kill them by ideas and complaints. Be focused.

I understand that you want to take your chance to finally share your several-years-frustration with the dev team but this is not the right way, trust me. By this, the GPC value will get decrease as it can seem that it doesnt fulfil its role.

On 26th October, an interesting article was published on the DevBlog. It's almost 2 weeks and there is no annoucement, no discussion... so, no feedback. I'm sure players don't know about these incoming changes. Why? You're focused on many things which aren't your business. Please understand that the channel between the internal council and the devs shouldn't serve to share every single thought which is mentioned somewhere. You represent the community, not only chosen ones.

And question - have you tried that new event? Have you provided a feedback? Have you engaged the community to do that?

Sorry, I don't trust you in the slightest, you're talking utter nonsense. I undertook to represent the players, that's what I'm trying to do - by bringing up the issues that the majority care about. THAT is my business.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's your choice but don't blame Inno then if you don't use your opportunity correctly. The GPC represents great potential... and what's nice, Inno has positive expectations... so we can be sure that they put effort into this project. It's quite risky for the company after all.

 

[DeletedUser46395]

It's your choice but don't blame Inno then if you don't use your opportunity correctly. The GPC represents great potential... and what's nice, Inno has positive expectations... so we can be sure that they put effort into this project. It's quite risky for the company after all.

More nonsense. You want to do it your way, you stand next time; I doubt anyone else will.
In the meantime, I consider you a total idiot and have put you on ignore.

 

[DeletedUser48212]

Inno call: quick recap

1) Spam
Not gonna happen. Inno wont be making any changes regarding the alarm and/or spam. Those hoping there would be something put in place to stop players from using spam as a tactic, well, may as well just move on.

2) Moderation
Inno informed us that it is not the task of the council to come up with / push any ideas as it pertains to punishments and overall moderation.

3) End game
Inno is and has been actively trying to come up with new concepts for the end game. In all likelihood, what you will see is a modification to the existing system, not necessarily a roll out of an entirely new end game. Ideas were proposed regarding the endgame, not the least of which was to keep the endgame as is - but offer different "options" as it to pertains to end game similar to how they have different "options" in servers (i.e., simply no wonders, a "domination" style server that would be one ocean 15-member cap no shared forums played until 1 island dominates, etc..) - which they are open to, but expressed difficulty in making other functions of the game work when you change certain aspects - and the amount of "options" or "different server" types provides more difficulty in the game functionality clogging up the backend with so many unique processes.

4) The app
There are certain features of the app that have been discussed in depth that are being taken seriously. At the top of this is making ACRs accessible via the app. Things like being able to change a city name are not high priority as it does not really do much in terms of feature changes that have a widespread positive impact.

That was mostly it for the first call.

To be honest that is pretty underwhelming. For being in office for 2 months or something like this that must have been a short and formal call. You brought it forward and they say nope cant do. It sounds more like a quick Q&A session to me to be honest. If someone asked me what kind of impression the player council gives it would be like that of the queen of england. A nice to look at figurehead that makes people say ohhhh thats awesome want to watch but the power lies with the government 100%. The council needs to be the line that player have to inno and I hope that you guys can make our voices be heard. With the way more frequent appearance of events they make even more money off us. As this we are paying customers and would like to voice what we like about this game and not.

Keep it up please, bring everything forward and I hope that they will consider what the players want.

 

[Baudin Toolan]

An official report of what the Inner Council has been up to and has been discussing will be released soon, however the information given out thus far has not been approved by Innogames and is not the final word on the topics that were discussed. The discussions are the subject of an NDA the purpose of which is to prevent players, who are not communication specialists, to share ambiguous information by accident. One such example is that ingame spam attacks and possible solutions were not discussed in enough depth and any such solutions would require a more extensive discussion.

 

[Rachel.L]

BT, it sounds like you are saying that either the gpc is not allowed to talk to players about their progress (that inno has to release official statements for anyone to know what is happening) or that mik and/ or bear are lying about the content of the convo, not being "communication specialists". Either way, i'm troubled by your post.

 

[Baudin Toolan]

Certain information can't be discussed until Inno clears it as it might result in inaccurate information being given to the players like what happened earlier. Given that the nature of the discussion between the GPC and Inno up to this point has been ongoing and nothing has been set to stone, communicating absolutes is only going to confuse each community. The NDA is in place to prevent that confusion.

 

[DeletedUser54192]

Once the official report has been released, are the council members allowed to give their own viewpoints on what was discussed?

 

[Baudin Toolan]

I assume so but I'll check for clarity on that and the council members themselves will be told I'm sure or know based on the details of the NDA.

 

[DeletedUser54192]

I assume so but I'll check for clarity on that and the council members themselves will be told I'm sure or know based on the details of the NDA.

Thanks. Because if they can't discuss their own viewpoints on the events, that would be a little concerning from the community's point of view.

 

[Baudin Toolan]

The main concern is that inaccurate information not get accidentally spread before things have been confirmed. A discussion after the official report is normal and likely expected as community feedback is always great.