What is the best defense combination

[DeletedUser]

First of all, i haven't found a thread with this subject, which is surprising, so if anybody has a link to one, just post it here.

Now, to my question. I've been doing some calculations in space/defensive power ratios and my conclusion is that (apart from building a wall that will touch the sky and adding a tower) the best defensive set up is a bunch of charriots. Now, i wonder two things.

1. Is that correct assessment?
2. Should i mix units for a syngery effect or just go plainly all-chariot constellation?

 

[DeletedUser]

1. Land offense. = 3,500 farm space - 885 = 2,615 remaining.

You will want about 40-50 LS, 100 fast transports, and the actual land units will depend on what your enemies defend with the most.

2. LS and bireme build. = 3,500 - 850 = 2,650

330 biremes OR 265 LS.

3. Land wall. = 3,500 - 845 = 2,655 remaining.

125 fast transports.
990 swordsmen.
310 archers.
700 hoplites.

This is a perfectly balanced defense, with a preference towards blunt and ranged defense.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not sure if we understood each other. I'm not talking about me attacking but me being the one to defend. I'd like to set up a set of defensive units so i don't loose my city. My game style is peaceful and i rarely attack others. So, unit transports shouldn't be needed, should they? Please advise.

 

[DeletedUser]

Look at the 3rd one in the first post.

I gave you 4 examples of how to specialize a city.

1) Navy Off.
2) Navy Def.
3) Land Off.
4) Land Def.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm sorry - i feel retarded right now. I only see three setups. Am i going blind?!

Also, i don't understand why i need fast transports for land defense. I thought that as long i defend i won't need any naval force.

Thanks for the help, of course. Keep it coming!

 

[DeletedUser]

the ships are so you can send the support to other cities unless you're a selfish D**k

 

[DeletedUser]

Hahaha, i didn't think of that at all. Darn, maybe i AM a selfish person. Very good point - thanks! Never the less, i didn't see a fourth strategy in the answer and i see no chariots. Aren't they the best defense unit (per space counted)?

 

[DeletedUser]

my conclusion is that (apart from building a wall that will touch the sky and adding a tower) the best defensive set up is a bunch of charriots. Now, i wonder two things.

1. Is that correct assessment?

no, it's not (but good to see that you were thinking about it at least). in fact, chariots are not a part of an efficient defence at all.

2. Should i mix units for a syngery effect or just go plainly all-chariot constellation?

a mix is definitely better, unless your enemies are very uncreative and only ever attack with one unit type, in which just build whichever defenders are the best defenders against that attack type per capita. but, if you don't know what units you will be attacked with then you'll want a balanced defence.

125 fast transports.
990 swordsmen.
310 archers.
700 hoplites.

This is a perfectly balanced defense, with a preference towards blunt and ranged defense.

that may be a balanced defence, but perfect? not really that defence comes in at 43.55 defence per capita, which is good but not perfect.

the best defence ratio i've come across was aurave's mix of
70 / 27 / 63
swords/archers/hops (and 10 fast trans with bunks to carry them), which comes in at about 44.6 def per capita. also not perfect, but a bit better


if you wanna see the maths behind it (and possibly try work out your own ratio which works out even better) then PM me

Spoiler: warning

you will have to know about simultaneous equations

 

[DeletedUser]

the best defence ratio i've come across was aurave's mix of
70 / 27 / 63
swords/archers/hops (and 10 fast trans with bunks to carry them), which comes in at about 44.6 def per capita.

All those units are available quite early in the game. I would expect the best units to be far up into the research tree... I'm not saying you are wrong - i'm saying that i'm surprised. Are the hight level units best for offence, instead?

if you wanna see the maths behind it (and possibly try work out your own ratio which works out even better) then PM me

Spoiler: warning

you will have to know about simultaneous equations

I've got a M.Sc. in Mathematical Statistics, so i think i can manage an equation system, haha.
I'd be pretty satisfied with a ratio over 40, so both your and his suggestions are hreat. Nevertheless , if you have a way to increase it even more, i'd like to hear about it.

What did you mean by "PM me"? Make you a prime minister? Of what? And how?!

 

[DeletedUser]

Guys, now that you're talking about defense, can you give me a plan that includes also defensive mythical units? I mean a mixture/combination of land troops and mythical units that can be effective and defend well against a possible, heavy attack...

 

[DeletedUser]

What did you mean by "PM me"? Make you a prime minister? Of what? And how?!

Private Message....

 

[DeletedUser]

OMG! I'm so stupid... HAHAHA

I really need to get more sleep. I've been working this crazy two weeks now, pulling 80+ hours a week... Maybe i AM retarded, hihi.

 

[DeletedUser]

All those units are available quite early in the game. I would expect the best units to be far up into the research tree... I'm not saying you are wrong - i'm saying that i'm surprised. Are the hight level units best for offence, instead?

if you look at the unit stats, the best (non-mythical) land attack unit is actually a slinger - available with a lvl1 academy. the higher level research is more general improvements, like phalanx, rams, mathematics, etc. in fact, the unit needing the highest level academy is a trireme, which needs a lvl25 academy. triremes happen to be one of the least favoured units in the game

I've got a M.Sc. in Mathematical Statistics, so i think i can manage an equation system, haha.
I'd be pretty satisfied with a ratio over 40, so both your and his suggestions are hreat. Nevertheless , if you have a way to increase it even more, i'd like to hear about it.

with an MSc in maths you should just work out and solve the system for yourself

What did you mean by "PM me"? Make you a prime minister? Of what? And how?!

as WB said, private message.



EDIT:

Guys, now that you're talking about defense, can you give me a plan that includes also defensive mythical units? I mean a mixture/combination of land troops and mythical units that can be effective and defend well against a possible, heavy attack...

depends which god you are talking about, but it would be possible to work it out. maybe chamster can work it out for you once he knows the inputs to the equations

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, if possible, can you mention about every god's defensive units?
For example, for defense, what is better? Pegasus, Harpies or Cerberus?
Well, at least let me know about Athena (first!)... How many Pegasus (mixed with land troops!) are good for a defensive city? I want to raise many opinions and I want to change my tactics, or better yet, to check all tactics out...

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, if possible, can you mention about every god's defensive units?
For example, for defense, what is better? Pegasus, Harpies or Cerberus?
Well, at least let me know about Athena (first!)... How many Pegasus (mixed with land troops!) are good for a defensive city? I want to raise many opinions and I want to change my tactics, or better yet, to check all tactics out...

well, (other than harpies, which are attacking units and not defensive) each defensive myth has their strengths and weaknesses, just like swords/archers/hops. pegusi are the strongest against blunt attacks (e.g. horses), cerberi are strongest against ranged attack (e.g. slingers) and centaurs are strongest against sharp attack (e.g. hoplites).

usually myths are used differently to standard troops - particularly the flying units like pegusi as they don't need transports. most players who build pegusi will just build the entire population of a city of pegusi and then use them as a fast support group. if you are just going to leave them in a city to defend then speed doesn't matter and then it would make sense to use them as part of a mixed defence, although i haven't worked out the numbers for that yet

 

[DeletedUser]

ok, worked out an athena city balanced defence

swords/pegusi/centaurs
296 / 3 / 9

464 population so will need 26 fast trans to carry them all (the 60 pop worth of pegusi can fly) and works out to around 53.9 defence per capita. there are 12 empty spaces on the last transport, so you can add a few other units, or leave off 4 swords and use 25 fast trans.

but, as saska says, i wouldn't go for that myself.

I would recommend going with 2/1/1 (Sword/Archers/Hoplites) in your defence cities.

2/1/1/ might be reasonable in the late-game when you may be holding sieges against multiple manticore nukes, but i would personally say too heavy in sharp def and light in blunt for early- to mid-game defence, where attacks are more varied (if not favouring slinger and horse attacks).

 

[DeletedUser]

@Pythagorus, I meant Medusa, lol! (Not Harpy!)... Well, flying units do not need transports, that's why they are more "convenient"! Thank you for the interesting info!
@Saska, I mostly use the "2/1/1 style", but I asked in order to gain more info... Knowledge is power

Well, do you have any comments on Cyclops? Is it worthwhile to build Cyclops up? They are good against horsemen (blunt weapons)...
And one more thing please
How many land units (swordsmen, archers or hoplites) can Pegasus "replace"? E.g., is it able to fight like 10(!?) swordsmen? Like 5? Like 20???

 

[DeletedUser]

Pythagorus, can you work out an Hades city balanced defense, please?

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, do you have any comments on Cyclops? Is it worthwhile to build Cyclops up? They are good against horsemen (blunt weapons)...

cyclopes are good defenders against distance (slingers), but only very marginally better than swordsmen. swords have 30 range defence per capita vs 32.75 for a cyclops - for me, not worth the favour. sea-man favour (as with most favour) is best used on spells rather than myths i'd say

How many land units (swordsmen, archers or hoplites) can Pegasus "replace"? E.g., is it able to fight like 10(!?) swordsmen? Like 5? Like 20???

i would recommend a trip to your local agora, the simulator tab in particular


EDIT:

1/1/2 is balanced, however 2/1/1 is distance heavy Pyth not sharp heavy

i don't think you're accounting for the relative attack strengths of slings/horses/hops there if you take that into consideration, 1/1/2 is actually extremely unbalanced!

a balanced defence needs to have roughly this ratio of defence values:
distance/ blunt/ sharp
100% / 79.71% / 69.57%

 

[DeletedUser]

Thank you Pythagorus for the interesting info/guidance!
If you have more info to give, please do so