Where did The Fallen fall?

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DeletedUser43485

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The alliance dropped massively from battling for the first place to the sixth.

There's a rumor going around the Top 12 thread about the reason behind it (Zues ghosted). Can we get a stronger explanations? First the Berzerkerz, which was a bit more predictable, but I wouldn't have personally predicted this.

Maybe we can also get some discussions going on it before we get some "official" enlightenment? :)
 

DeletedUser7609

Guest
Hello. This is CannotBeBroken. We did an OP on [island]178724[/island] (bbcode if you want to see where). We were much bigger than the other alliance and should've crushed them. The problem was, we didn't get any support. It was at this moment that we realized that there was not much of a team. Apart from the members in the alliance .aka everybody was playing for themselves. You can't win with an alliance like that, so all of the dedicated team players left. The Fallen is now full of laughable players. Not laughable due to lack of experience, but laughable due to the amount of greed in that alliance. That's why Zues ghosted. He wanted to leave it all. No selfish alliance can do anything. It took one failed op for us to see how selfish we truly were.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
they were just to big and fractured because of internals is my only guess as i see no reason why externally they could have been broken
 

DeletedUser16696

Guest
This.

Internal issues dam right :p

Couldn't do anything and most was un-willing to change :/ Wasn't working well as team, member arguein and not giving an inch for anyone. I tried to do all I could but they just weren't having it :/

As much luck as breaking up a bunch of school kids fightin.

Not all or everyone, but most. One or the other.


Very greedy too, didn't care about anyone but themselves :/ as long as they got what they wanted, it was all that mattered.

Again not everyone, but most.

I couldn't do anything to solve it :/ So that's where I failed.
 

DeletedUser43485

Guest
I feel it shouldn't be one man's job to keep an alliance going.

It's either a matter of bad segregation of duties, or a failure of the team, not only yourself. :)
 

DeletedUser16696

Guest
I defiantly feel it's 90% the team.

The other 10% is my own fault
 

DeletedUser43485

Guest
What do you think it will happen now with the group, Zues?
 

DeletedUser36491

Guest
Its not all about the better players...Its about the team. You have to get the balance just right.

Everyone has an opinion of course but if you don't follow the leaders then your going to be in trouble at some point.
 

DeletedUser16696

Guest
What do you think it will happen now with the group, Zues?

Depends if they see where they have failed. If they see where they've gone wrong and were to improve, they'll defiantly do well.

I believe AKA. will do well, they're the members that I personally feel that didn't do much wrong. (Bar 1-2 incidents)


But as for the "Fallen" I believe that they will fall.

Its not all about the better players...Its about the team. You have to get the balance just right.

Everyone has an opinion of course but if you don't follow the leaders then your going to be in trouble at some point.

I believe that's accurate, if I made plans for the team to improve and work together, but then I'd get complaints about how it didn't help them, or why should I do that.

I think that players got to selfish. I ended up taking easy cities, and losing all my defense in 1 day, trying to rebuild it but lost it all trying to help. Then it became a cycle, because someone had to help/
 
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DeletedUser36491

Guest
Why did you ghost Zues?

You could have gone with those from .aka
 

DeletedUser13240

Guest
Aye, the military be havin' a sayin' fer it.
Cluster __ somethin' or other
 

DeletedUser16696

Guest
Well, AKA. was formed after I ghosted :/

Nothin I could of done
 

DeletedUser

Guest
you could've given me a city :p
I agree that you had some selfish players so its not your fault :)
 

DeletedUser16696

Guest
Well, the cities are probably under siege right now :p

Depends on who has the city.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Full of and dissapointed

A few people who left from fallen after zeus ghosted are so far up where the sun doesnt shine. 'aka'. Working as a team takes time.
4 weeks ago we were taking a city and myself and plenty others supported so much that zeus asked us to pull back. quoting him 'im so proud to be in this alliance'. The next opp taking over bunniez was easy yes but we had alot of support Again.
The last and only opp that went wrong wasnt even a complete failure lol yes a large number of them didnt support me included in this one. However sticking up for the team here not to say it wasnt organised proporly because it was, but the first post on about the landing time was past 10pm whereas most people probably would have logged off to bed, a solution i think would have been to mass mail everyone on the day to make people aware it was today but no. Now Zeus left because of one failure as a team, it hasnt been consistent so abit over dramatic. It didnt need that much work other than telling the members what you want and what is expected, didnt help you and djom contradicting each other you will get confused. Plus things slowed down becuase it takes longer to get city slots.
Plus another thing, it was the two leaders who decided to merge with legends of anarchy, so if you didnt think they were pulling their weight why wouldnt you just kick them??? what kind of leader does that?
 
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DeletedUser44027

Guest
A few people who left from fallen after zeus ghosted are so far up where the sun doesnt shine. 'aka'. up the A.R.S.E. Working as a team takes time.
4 weeks ago we were taking a city and myself and plenty others supported so much that zeus asked us to pull back. quoting him 'im so proud to be in this alliance'. The next opp taking over bunniez was easy yes but we had alot of support Again.
The last and only opp that went wrong wasnt even a complete failure lol yes a large number of them didnt support me included in this one. However sticking up for the team here not to say it wasnt organised proporly because it was, but the first post on about the landing time was past 10pm whereas most people probably would have logged off to bed, a solution i think would have been to mass mail everyone on the day to make people aware it was today but no. Now Zeus left because of one failure as a team, it hasnt been consistent so abit over dramatic. It didnt need that much work other than telling the members what you want and what is expected, didnt help you and djom contradicting each other you will get confused. Plus things slowed down becuase it takes longer to get city slots.
Plus another thing, it was the two leaders who decided to merge with legends of anarchy, so if you didnt think they were pulling their weight why wouldnt you just kick them??? what kind of leader does that?

I personally think it was a bit of a disappointment to him- I hear a lot of his original members went inactive, and perhaps this new fallen just wasn't up to his standard. He got the classic 20/80 all alliances get: 20% of the players do 80% of the work. I don't know if that's what happened, but that certainly something I would understand.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
he brought those players in when he merged, half of them did pull there weight. Things only seemed bad because of only two things. one the hic up of the last opp (needed advertising when) and two. things got slow because everyone needed bp to get a city slot so not many claims were happening as per a week ago. not that hard to see
 

DeletedUser46395

Guest
A few people who left from fallen after zeus ghosted are so far up where the sun doesnt shine. 'aka'. up the A.R.S.E. Working as a team takes time.
4 weeks ago we were taking a city and myself and plenty others supported so much that zeus asked us to pull back. quoting him 'im so proud to be in this alliance'. The next opp taking over bunniez was easy yes but we had alot of support Again.
The last and only opp that went wrong wasnt even a complete failure lol yes a large number of them didnt support me included in this one. However sticking up for the team here not to say it wasnt organised proporly because it was, but the first post on about the landing time was past 10pm whereas most people probably would have logged off to bed, a solution i think would have been to mass mail everyone on the day to make people aware it was today but no. Now Zeus left because of one failure as a team, it hasnt been consistent so abit over dramatic. It didnt need that much work other than telling the members what you want and what is expected, didnt help you and djom contradicting each other you will get confused. Plus things slowed down becuase it takes longer to get city slots.
Plus another thing, it was the two leaders who decided to merge with legends of anarchy, so if you didnt think they were pulling their weight why wouldnt you just kick them??? what kind of leader does that?

Unfortunately it's precisely this sort of denial that led me to leave; people weren't prepared to face the fact that the problems went way beyond one horrible op. That was merely a symptom of the malaise, not the disease itself. There were still some decent people left, but they were unable to grasp what was actually the problem; when we were in discussions yesterday, the one suggestion as to how to change the selfish culture that really made sense to me was "change the players". That struck a chord; the issue wasn't structures or leadership, it was the attitude of players, and nothing that was being discussed seemed to me to be likely to change that.

Sounds like there was quite a few melodramatic people.. :D

No, not really; there's always some melodrama in every alliance of strong characters, but that wasn't the main problem. Almost the opposite, actually - nobody was prepared to accept that the problems ran deep.

I personally think it was a bit of a disappointment to him- I hear a lot of his original members went inactive, and perhaps this new fallen just wasn't up to his standard. He got the classic 20/80 all alliances get: 20% of the players do 80% of the work. I don't know if that's what happened, but that certainly something I would understand.

Certainly something in that, but again, not the main cause; several players went semi-active simply because it wasn't working, so again, it was a symptom rather than the cause.

TF was a glorious project that was huge fun to start with, but at some point - not entirely sure where - went off the rails. The failure was to spot that in time and correct it; by yesterday, there was nothing that could've been done to save it, the selfishness was too ingrained.
 

DeletedUser46395

Guest
Right, I've thought back to the beginning, and really things started to go wrong very early indeed.

One thing that has to be understood is that policy in TF was decided by group discussion, so in theory, everyone should've been onboard with every decision.

A very early decision was that straight out of B.P., some players would go for conquests, others support attacks, and others would provide def support. Everyone agreed, and I went for def. However, it just didn't happen; come the end of BP, almost everyone was going for conquests, and virtually nobody was providing any support. It didn't really matter at that point; people were strong enough to catch victims off guard, and those of us who were providing def support - it felt like only me, but there must've been some others - weren't getting any BP. So before long, I realised it was a mug's game, and I wanted in on the conquest action. So now everyone was going for it, nobody was providing support, and still the opposition was weak. But gradually, we ran out of weak targets, and everyone else started getting their act together; we started losing CSs and their supporting forces because we had no support from others. So Zues put in a process to slow up the rate of conquest so that we would support each other - but it just didn't happen; people waited impatiently for their turn in the queue, and weren't prepared to use their forces to support ongoing conquests. So nothing changed. Next, we tried geographical squads, but still there just wasn't the teamwork there, we just had three queues instead of one. We introduced ops, which did help to start with, but perhaps their planning was a bit rushed, and certainly individuals were thinking too much just about their next conquest, not the tactical or strategic aims of the alliance as a whole; the final failed op really was just a symptom of the way people were going about the game, and it's not surprising Zues had had enough - everything he tried was scuppered by the selfishness of pretty much the whole team, and STILL people couldn't or wouldn't see what the problem was - no more nor less than people putting themselves first, and using the alliance as a vehicle for their ego rather than as a group of mates to die in a ditch for. Grepo just doesn't work like that, however good you are, and the moment you forget it, you're finished.
 
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