The Right to Life

DeletedUser31385

Guest
The cells were already alive to begin with. They were just not a separate organism yet. An abortion is killing something that is alive, but not yet a separate organism.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
That wasn't what I was saying you were agreeing with but whatever.

Again we are saying you are killing the potienal for life which is equivalent to murder. See first post for explanation.

I understand what you're saying, don't worry. I simply don't agree. I do not think killing the potential for life is equivalent to murder. If we had to deal with all the potentials in the world, we'd be very busy people. Just because it has the potential, doesn't mean it is - and if it's not, .. well. I think you understand where I'm coming from. Go ahead and disagree with me again, but that's precisely my point. This will go back and forth until the end of times.
 

DeletedUser49358

Guest
I understand what you're saying, don't worry. I simply don't agree. I do not think killing the potential for life is equivalent to murder. If we had to deal with all the potentials in the world, we'd be very busy people. Just because it has the potential, doesn't mean it is - and if it's not, .. well. I think you understand where I'm coming from. Go ahead and disagree with me again, but that's precisely my point. This will go back and forth until the end of times.

What about waiting after five weeks into pregnacy for when the spinal cord and brain begin to form, is abortion at that point murder?
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
The main problem thus far is that no one at all has actually tried disproving the logic in the post. No one. The furthest it's gone is saying that potential life != life. I can state anything I want, but if I dont have anything to back it up, even if the claim is true, then it's worthless. So far, no one has gone to disprove the logic.
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
this is simple

a cow has more cognative ability than a fetus it feels pain and is often aware its about to be slaughterd

is that murder ?

no

as for the definition of murder i think Murder is the killing of another person without justification or valid excuse.

i see religion trying to do all sorts of horrific things foisting its perverse morality on others

you only have to look at the horrific stories that come from Ireland to see how this story ends its a bit like apartheid in South Africa. Change was slow and the abuse was epic
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
this is simple

a cow has more cognative ability than a fetus it feels pain and is often aware its about to be slaughterd

is that murder ?

no

as for the definition of murder i think Murder is the killing of another person without justification or valid excuse.

i see religion trying to do all sorts of horrific things foisting its perverse morality on others

you only have to look at the horrific stories that come from Ireland to see how this story ends its a bit like apartheid in South Africa. Change was slow and the abuse was epic

Again, not focusing on the logic at all. I mean, it's fine if you can't. Really, it is. But please stop having a broken-record-like response to everything as potential life != life when the argument was, at the very core, equating those two with logic.
 

DeletedUser5819

Guest
Zero has a point. Not what I remember Zero for in the past, but I actually agree with him :D

Pebs, I can see why you would want to try to insist that only the logical process of your top post should be focused on, since that kinda obscures that a logical argument based on false premises is fatally flawed from the off.
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
Again, not focusing on the logic at all. I mean, it's fine if you can't. Really, it is. But please stop having a broken-record-like response to everything as potential life != life when the argument was, at the very core, equating those two with logic.

i never said a word about potential life

i stated if life is so precious then how come we can kill entities far more sentiant in the trillions without remorse yet a few cells that would not survive if spued from the mother host are murder.

problem is the same in all these debate you christians post you want to define them by your rules to rig the outcome.
your a very cleaver guy pebs i respect that and you but you cant argue that these debates are mostly herded in a direction due to the language you use.

is a fetus a person a human being ?

should it be defined as more than it is ?

why do humans have more rights than other life forms is that fair ?

what are the rights of the host, do they lose all rights after conception ?

should religion have any sway in law ?
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
this is simple

a cow has more cognative ability than a fetus it feels pain and is often aware its about to be slaughterd

is that murder ?

no

as for the definition of murder i think Murder is the killing of another person without justification or valid excuse.

Yes, but a cow is fully developed. A fetus can't see and does not know what is happening to it. A fetus is a human being because it could be born and survive.
 
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DeletedUser37948

Guest
Yes, but a cow is fully developed. A fetus can't see and does not know what is happening to it.

we humans love to have our double standards one life form we kill and eat the other hardly alive we commit atrocities to protect
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
this is simple

a cow has more cognative ability than a fetus it feels pain and is often aware its about to be slaughterd

is that murder ?

no
yeah because it's not a human. As you will state below that is the definition of murder. The fetus has the potienal for human life (see pebbles first post)

as for the definition of murder i think Murder is the killing of another person without justification or valid excuse.

i see religion trying to do all sorts of horrific things foisting its perverse morality on others
what? When has anyone cited anything religious here. Also even if they did that "perverse morality" you were speaking of in this case is "don't take human life" which I think most people would agree is decent moral.

you only have to look at the horrific stories that come from Ireland to see how this story ends its a bit like apartheid in South Africa. Change was slow and the abuse was epic
Again what? We get it you think religion is the source of all evil in the world but no one is talking about religion here.
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
we humans love to have our double standards one life form we kill and eat the other hardly alive we commit atrocities to protect

There are laws saying livestock may only be slain in a humane manner. It is illegal to cause undue excitement or discomfort of these animals. So they aren't being killed with an axe or something else that would scare them. Also... Animals kill plants. Is it wrong? No. The plants know they are being harmed and can't do anything to stop it. Killing ones own species is murder. That means killing a fetus is murder.
 

DeletedUser49358

Guest
i never said a word about potential life

i stated if life is so precious then how come we can kill entities far more sentiant in the trillions without remorse yet a few cells that would not survive if spued from the mother host are murder.

problem is the same in all these debate you christians post you want to define them by your rules to rig the outcome.
your a very cleaver guy pebs i respect that and you but you cant argue that these debates are mostly herded in a direction due to the language you use.

is a fetus a person a human being ?

should it be defined as more than it is ?

why do humans have more rights than other life forms is that fair ?

what are the rights of the host, do they lose all rights after conception ?

should religion have any sway in law ?

Your entire argument is that cells aren't life yet cows are living and are killed so we have a double standard of murder, like I asked before and got no answer what if all abortions were done 5 weeks into pregnancy or later as at that point the spine and brain of the child is beginning to form and a life is being made, would it then be killing a life?

Also your premise of this being an argument for Christian ideals is terribly ignorant, I have argued that abortion is murder throughout this thread yet am not a religious person in the least.


Your mocking link isn't relevant to the topic, the song is mocking Catholic religion for denouncing the use of contraception in attempts to prevent sex for pleasure in saying every sperm is sacred. A fertilized egg that with almost 100% become a living person is not the same of as the potential life that a sperm on its own represents.
 
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DeletedUser33530

Guest
i never said a word about potential life
then why are you here?

I stated if life is so precious then how come we can kill entities far more sentiant in the trillions without remorse yet a few cells that would not survive if spued from the mother host are murder.
those animals are not humans that's why. Also humans are kind of horrible.

problem is the same in all these debate you christians post you want to define them by your rules to rig the outcome.
first off way to stereotype. Second pebble didn't rig this debate. He presented logic, asked for disprovals, and got nothing. That's on you guys trying to argue against him.
your a very cleaver guy pebs i respect that and you but you cant argue that these debates are mostly herded in a direction due to the language you use.
that's how debates work
 
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DeletedUser37948

Guest
yeah because it's not a human. As you will state below that is the definition of murder. The fetus has the potienal for human life (see pebbles first post)

what? When has anyone cited anything religious here. Also even if they did that "perverse morality" you were speaking of in this case is "don't take human life" which I think most people would agree is decent moral.

Again what? We get it you think religion is the source of all evil in the world but no one is talking about religion here.

if the fetus has the potential for human life you are stating its not human life ?

religion is not the root of all evil its just the framework evil people use to commit atrocities and history has proven this

as for this debate being relgious your correct its not stated as such but that does not meen its not subliminaly about christian agendas
 

DeletedUser49358

Guest
as for this debate being relgious your correct its not stated as such but that does not meen its not subliminaly about christian agendas

Again this is just plain ignorant, people can have opinions against abortion without having to be tied down by religion
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
There are laws saying livestock may only be slain in a humane manner. It is illegal to cause undue excitement or discomfort of these animals. So they aren't being killed with an axe or something else that would scare them. Also... Animals kill plants. Is it wrong? No. The plants know they are being harmed and can't do anything to stop it. Killing ones own species is murder. That means killing a fetus is murder.

there are laws that we dont murder yet it happens so im sure animals are killed inhumanly but its kind of a null point to be honest and off track

i think its worse to kill a cow than it is a fetus i am sure a cow is more aware

yet ironicaly ill still eat beef
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
Again this is just plain ignorant, people can have opinions against abortion without having to be tied down by religion

i never said they cant any many no christians have posted there veiws but historically on this forum i feel there is a relivance to my comments
 
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