Proposal New Hero: Icarus (flying troops)

[DeletedUser55069]

Summary:
Icarus a new war hero

Description:
When Icarus is assigned to a town attacking troops can fly to other islands without transport ships.
At level 1, troops' offensive values are decreased by 67% while fighting with Icarus. At level 20, troops fight with 90% attack power.

Hero stats:
Price: 105 war coins
Speed: 5 (same as Fire ship speed)
Loot: 0
Attack value: 0
Defense value: 0

Compatible units:
non-myth land units (Swordsman, Slinger, Archer, Hoplite, Horseman, Chariot, Catapult)

Reasons:
None of the current flying units have distance weapons.
It would be exciting to be able to use strategies that an extra flying city can provide.

Usage / effects:
As a reference to Greek mythology and to prevent abuses Icarus would die in every single battle and require healing (time / gold). The attacking units would be weaker than normal with Icarus (the attack power of a Slinger nuke with maxed Icarus would be similar to a Harpy nuke just different weapon) to make sure it is not too powerful at any stages of the game.
The slow speed would limit its usability combined with instant buy for Siege breaks but would open possibilities to fight against hardly reachable and stacked cities like rock islands, low morale invaders and similar, therefore it would encourage more planning and real OPs against the hardest targets on any Battle systems.
It could be a counter effect hero for Odysseus and Chiron (fast and cheap land defense) on later stages of the game and promote usage of regular offensive units more after the era of cheap event flyers seem to come to its end.

Visual Aids:
I can only give some inspiration for the Graphic team, but don't you dare say I haven't tried!
Icarus should be a mixture of @The Smilodon Fatalis & Santa Claus, have big wings and a bag that fits Slingers or other units similar to what storks use to carry babies or like Santa's gift bag.

 

[DeletedUser55362]

Summary:
Icarus a new war hero

Description:
When Icarus is assigned to a town attacking troops can fly to other islands without transport ships.
At level 1, troops' offensive values are decreased by 67% while fighting with Icarus. At level 20, troops fight with 90% attack power.

View attachment 12816

First: DOPE! You the best.

Second: I would maybe add besides the decreased 67% to 90% (while maxing), maybe he can only transport 1000 trops at lvl 1, 3000 at lvl 20. For example.

 

[DeletedUser31931]

I think this is awesome. Would absolutely love to see a war hero that brings new strategies into the game instead of just boosting the current ones. Would be particularly interesting for siege breaking.

I would maybe add besides the decreased 67% to 90% (while maxing), maybe he can only transport 1000 trops at lvl 1, 3000 at lvl 20. For example.

I agree completely. Even if the percentages are changed...he's useless at level 1 and overpowered at level 20. Especially on worlds where you already have morale to account for, sending troops at 33% efficiency would be a bloodbath. On the other hand a tiny -10% reduction in power is hardly anything, and this would be like an endless flier nuke. The way the timing works out, on many worlds a single player would be able to launch 3 different OLU nukes at a siege using this same hero. The solution to this would be to make his upgrades smaller, such at 60% at level 1 versus 80% at level 20, but then upgrading him would be a waste of coins.

I think that the best answer is for him to be able to transport 500 troops at level 1, and 3000 at level 20. And that way the reduction in troop power could be an even 20% or so.

 

[DeletedUser55069]

First: DOPE! You the best.

Second: I would maybe add besides the decreased 67% to 90% (while maxing), maybe he can only transport 1000 trops at lvl 1, 3000 at lvl 20. For example.

considered many options (for example limit and gradually increase travel time, but that has no precedent and would be harder to define + maybe it would be too powerful at early stages)

on level 1 the 67% decreased attack value = 33% attack power would mean in practice that you send 3000 slingers but only 1000 fight (similar to morale)
that seemed to be easy to implement

level 1 = 33% attack power (1000 / 3000)
level 2 = 36 % (1080 / 3000)
...
level 10 = 60% (1800 / 3000)
level 15 = 75% (2250 / 3000)
level 20 = 90% (2700 / 3000)

 

[DeletedUser31931]

I am not sure it makes sense to use a unit speed for the hero when none of the others have one (all are 35, higher than any other unit). Why not just let the unit's normal speed stand? So slingers attacking with Icarus have unit speed 14, hoplites have 6, etc. This also makes meteorology more useful, which would be an added benefit.

 

[DeletedUser55069]

I am not sure it makes sense to use a unit speed for the hero when none of the others have one (all are 35, higher than any other unit).

That's another topic, but Hero speed is so far a missed opportunity - it could affect the hero assignment time thus different speed would help in balancing some overpowered heroes (e.g war and lower bonus heroes could move faster than higher bonus heroes).

As for Icarus the unit speed limits how often could someone re-use him for siege breaks, since it is possible to instant buy troops there is a chance it would be abused by a faster speed. Originally I thought CS / catapult speed is the best, but that would lead to false CS alerts, so I ended up with fire ship that are also very powerful units but hard to abuse them exactly because of their speed, which is also a unique speed, can't used as attack therefore this speed could spare any false alerts. You could use the attack window to determine the attack type just like now, cross island slinger attacks can't be simulated (you couldn't tell whether it's LS or slinger).

 

[DeletedUser55901]

This is a really bad bad bad idea. I mean, I love flyers. They come second, after my son. But, seriously, if a hero will allow me to move 3k of slings, hmm, it will be the endgame.
Imagine, a revolt world. Nobody will make dlu anymore. I'm not making anyway, but still many peeps do. The same thing will happen in conquest. How can you keep a siege when 20 slings nukes having icarus will attack the siege?
I love this icarus idea, but it can't be implemented in grepolis.
PS. Also, this hero will take most of the extra powers events gives to high spenders. So, inno, will not be interested in. And, also, it will take from the importance of myth nukes, which is something very startegical in the game.

 

[foogaloowhoOP]

This is a really bad bad bad idea. I mean, I love flyers. They come second, after my son. But, seriously, if a hero will allow me to move 3k of slings, hmm, it will be the endgame.
Imagine, a revolt world. Nobody will make dlu anymore. I'm not making anyway, but still many peeps do. The same thing will happen in conquest. How can you keep a siege when 20 slings nukes having icarus will attack the siege?
I love this icarus idea, but it can't be implemented in grepolis.
PS. Also, this hero will take most of the extra powers events gives to high spenders. So, inno, will not be interested in. And, also, it will take from the importance of myth nukes, which is something very startegical in the game.

Maybe cats are too heavy to carry therefore no flying cats, therefore wall stays in tact

 

[DeletedUser55901]

And maybe you will have another new hero, which will allow your birs to also defend the sky.

 

[DeletedUser55069]

Nobody will make dlu anymore. I'm not making anyway, but still many peeps do. The same thing will happen in conquest. How can you keep a siege when 20 slings nukes having icarus will attack the siege?

The proposed numbers might be too high, but consider that

• the defender has a potential BP advantage, because maximum 90% of the attack power would be efficient
  (similar to 90% morale or -10% luck)
  for example you hit 3000 swords with 3000 slingers, it would kill 1922 sword only by 0 wall = 3 : 2 BP ratio
• defending units are cheaper
  swords can be easily rebuilt cheap with Odysseus
  slinger cost: 176 resources (528K for 3000 slingers)
  swords cost: 65 resources (195K for 3000 slingers) - with max Odysseus price ratio = 5 : 2
  
• recruit time is shorter for defense
• defenders have unlimited chances to use Zeus rage that kills catapults first...
• walls

Defenders have a huge advantage!

I disagree that players would not make DLU anymore, it would rather encourage building defense. It is a problem that many players build only certain type of units (high BP units) because the heroes are too powerful. Icarus would give attention to other units and new game styles.

 

[DeletedUser55901]

The proposed numbers might be too high, but consider that

• the defender has a potential BP advantage, because maximum 90% of the attack power would be efficient
  (similar to 90% morale or -10% luck)
  for example you hit 3000 swords with 3000 slingers, it would kill 1922 sword only by 0 wall = 3 : 2 BP ratio
• defending units are cheaper
  swords can be easily rebuilt cheap with Odysseus
  slinger cost: 176 resources (528K for 3000 slingers)
  swords cost: 65 resources (195K for 3000 slingers) - with max Odysseus price ratio = 5 : 2
  
• recruit time is shorter for defense
• defenders have unlimited chances to use Zeus rage that kills catapults first...
• walls

Defenders have a huge advantage!

I disagree that players would not make DLU anymore, it would rather encourage building defense. It is a problem that many players build only certain type of units (high BP units) because the heroes are too powerful. Icarus would give attention to other units and new game styles.

Mate, because of being an idiot, and believing that Charlie have a drop of honor, which he have not, i dont have a world to play right now. So, im playing sandbox10, where i intend to make mostly flyers and hydras bcoz of the world speed.
But again, if i had icarus, i was thinking different. You see, all the worlds i had played, i was a decent attacker. Like top 1500. The worst think can ever happen is my troops to die in the harbor.
The fact that you are dreaming and i will send 1k slings against 1k swords, proves that you dont know me at all.
If your idea, by a miracle, will EVER pass, it will make me the most grepo happy player, but it will end this beautiful game, which struggles anyway.

 

[DeletedUser36530]

Personally i think this could encourage the building of more dlu. It makes breaking sieges easier for those who don't spend money on events, and now people will be forced to build more dlu. HOWEVER i think this takes a lot away from transports being used offensively but i don't really see that being a problem as transports will still be needed for the extra amount of dlu that will be needed. I like the idea of the hero dying after each attack, what if we made it have a 12 hour recharge time, so people couldn't just gold the crap out of slings and keep sending. This would make it so at maximum each player in an alliance could send ONE of these nukes to a siege. WIth that being limited, i don't see their being much abuse to this. Just build more dlu. I think this is a great idea. If people think that this can abuse the start of the game, then maybe it should stay locked until 1 month after world opening or so. That solves your problem of early abuse. Also i like the idea of weakened attack more as well, evens the playing field for the defender. I wouldn't go much lower than 90% though (at level 20 anyway), because then the ratio is too bad to even be used, making this addition unnecessary.

 

[DeletedUser31931]

I like the idea of the hero dying after each attack, what if we made it have a 12 hour recharge time, so people couldn't just gold the crap out of slings and keep sending.

You can use gold to insta-finish the recharge; it's very cheap compared to building troops.

 

[DeletedUser36530]

You can use gold to insta-finish the recharge; it's very cheap compared to building troops.

what I meant was what if we didn't allow this hero to be recharged

 

[DeletedUser52891]

please stop with these overpowered heroes....