A call to all rebels to attack the Empire (Victrix)

Rascel-

Hipparchus
Sorry but with some of the teammates I've had....I really don't want them to make important decisions that effects the entire alliance lol. Some people aren't fit, or should be, making decisions that will dictate what an entire ally does, cause I'll just put it blandly. People are stupid.
 

Raydium88

Phrourach
FT I get it. You're trolling. You must, there's no other explanation. I mean can you seriously be that thick to believe half the stuff you spat out? Lol don't fall in ridicule bud... you're going down into such jarring depths of hiprocrisy... you should be able to smell your own stench there. But of course, no... because is all just a massive troll.

Someone once said "sarcasm don't translate well into text"... stop wasting people's time.
 

iMrCornetto

Phrourach
Sorry but with some of the teammates I've had....I really don't want them to make important decisions that effects the entire alliance lol. Some people aren't fit, or should be, making decisions that will dictate what an entire ally does, cause I'll just put it blandly. People are stupid.
You talking about me you cheeky little rascal?
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
I am not trolling you.
I am shocked how anti-democratic some of you are. The opinion of every player counts. Discussion, disagreements, deliberations are what makes possible to find the best solutions for the group.


I recognize not every player or alliance in this forum is going to follow the same model of governance. I do not think that I can — or should — impose our system of government on other alliances. But there appears to be growing contest between authoritarianism and liberalism right now. And I want everybody to understand, I am not neutral in that contest. I believe in a liberal political order — an order built not just through elections and representative government, but also through respect for the dignity of the player and due process.

I know that some alliances, which now recognize the power of free economic growth among players still reject the model of free politics within alliance. And perhaps those of us who have been promoting democracy feel somewhat discouraged by the growth indiscriminate NAP and authoritarian rule, because we’ve learned that democracy, freedom, and liberty will not just wash across the worlds in a single wave.

It turns out building accountable institutions is hard work — the work of many worlds. The gains are often fragile. Sometimes we take one step forward and then two steps back. And so, given the difficulty in forging true democracy in the face of these pressures, it’s no surprise that some argue the future favors the strongman, a top-down model, rather than strong, democratic institutions.

But I believe this thinking is wrong. I believe the road of true democracy remains the better path. I believe that in the future, alliances can only grow to a certain point until they need to open up — because a few people can not find what is best for the group or completely understand the best options and needs of each player --- Without this evolution, ultimately expectations of people will not be met; suppression and stagnation will set in. And history shows that authoritarians Grepolis leaders are then left with two paths — permanents NAP until the end of the game or obscene expenditures of gold, both which stall the growth of the game.

Now, I will admit, my belief that governments serve the individual, and not the other way around, is shaped by America’s story and admiration for Ancient Greece Political Philosophy.

We really have nothing to lose by trying to set up democratic alliances, but those who have been benefiting from this dictatorials ways have everything to lose. They have already showed us that they have failed and stagnated this wonderful game.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
Citizens of Istros,

This has become a really exciting race of world wonders.
I do urge you to send attacks to the Empire of Victrix.
They do have an edge on the race, but this has been far from easy for them.
They can not longer boast that they won by a landslide.

I want to make it clear that my motive behind my urges is to force this world into a real battle.
If we can have the three alliances split the world wonders, then this would finally force a true war in this world.

It would truly force to prove Victrix that they are a true fighting alliance as supposed to a mega alliance that relies on back-room politics to win servers, which this what they truly are.

No attack is useless. As for the future, even if in this world world they get away with their shady deals and politics.

I urge not to despair and abandon the game. If future worlds, demand that your leaders do not engage in NAP. Fight to the end and do not fear to engage in attacks towards the big mega alliances. We can make this game great again and stand against these self proclaimed aristocrats and oligarchical elites.

The edge is for the evil empire, but you can stand against them with your attacks. Very impressive of Blood and Nocturnos. They are trailing behind by only a few minutes in the level 9 wonders.

Victrix Empire
1 The Hanging Gardens of Semiramis in Babylon 7
The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus 9
The Tomb of King Mausolus II at Halicarnassus 9
The Colossus of Rhodes 7
The lighthouse on the island of Pharos at Alexandria 8
The Pyramids of Giza in Egypt 8
The Statue of Zeus by Phidias in Olympia 8
Bloods
2 The Hanging Gardens of Semiramis in Babylon 8
The Statue of Zeus by Phidias in Olympia 8
The Pyramids of Giza in Egypt 7
The Tomb of King Mausolus II at Halicarnassus 7
The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus 9
The Colossus of Rhodes 7
The lighthouse on the island of Pharos at Alexandria 8

Nocturnos
3 The lighthouse on the island of Pharos at Alexandria 8
The Pyramids of Giza in Egypt 3
The Statue of Zeus by Phidias in Olympia 8
The Colossus of Rhodes 8
The Hanging Gardens of Semiramis in Babylon 9

Undecided
4 The lighthouse on the island of Pharos at Alexandria 8
The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus 3
The Colossus of Rhodes 5
The Tomb of King Mausolus II at Halicarnassus 5
Scattered
5 The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus 2
The Colossus of Rhodes 4
The Statue of Zeus by Phidias in Olympia 2
 

.magick.

Phrourach
Ok, so I want to say that you guys have to stay on topic here. If y'all want to argue about the points of government I'm plenty sure there are topics already in the Off Topic forums.
 

BlackPest

Hipparchus
I am not trolling you.
I am shocked how anti-democratic some of you are. The opinion of every player counts. Discussion, disagreements, deliberations are what makes possible to find the best solutions for the group.


I recognize not every player or alliance in this forum is going to follow the same model of governance. I do not think that I can — or should — impose our system of government on other alliances. But there appears to be growing contest between authoritarianism and liberalism right now. And I want everybody to understand, I am not neutral in that contest. I believe in a liberal political order — an order built not just through elections and representative government, but also through respect for the dignity of the player and due process.

I know that some alliances, which now recognize the power of free economic growth among players still reject the model of free politics within alliance. And perhaps those of us who have been promoting democracy feel somewhat discouraged by the growth indiscriminate NAP and authoritarian rule, because we’ve learned that democracy, freedom, and liberty will not just wash across the worlds in a single wave.

It turns out building accountable institutions is hard work — the work of many worlds. The gains are often fragile. Sometimes we take one step forward and then two steps back. And so, given the difficulty in forging true democracy in the face of these pressures, it’s no surprise that some argue the future favors the strongman, a top-down model, rather than strong, democratic institutions.

But I believe this thinking is wrong. I believe the road of true democracy remains the better path. I believe that in the future, alliances can only grow to a certain point until they need to open up — because a few people can not find what is best for the group or completely understand the best options and needs of each player --- Without this evolution, ultimately expectations of people will not be met; suppression and stagnation will set in. And history shows that authoritarians Grepolis leaders are then left with two paths — permanents NAP until the end of the game or obscene expenditures of gold, both which stall the growth of the game.

Now, I will admit, my belief that governments serve the individual, and not the other way around, is shaped by America’s story and admiration for Ancient Greece Political Philosophy.

We really have nothing to lose by trying to set up democratic alliances, but those who have been benefiting from this dictatorials ways have everything to lose. They have already showed us that they have failed and stagnated this wonderful game.
Oh, boy!! Stay way from the coffee, you clearly got some caffeine intolerance > It is making you engage in fights with the computer keyboard
 

MAC-9

Chiliarch
I am not trolling you.
I am shocked how anti-democratic some of you are. The opinion of every player counts. Discussion, disagreements, deliberations are what makes possible to find the best solutions for the group.


I recognize not every player or alliance in this forum is going to follow the same model of governance. I do not think that I can — or should — impose our system of government on other alliances. But there appears to be growing contest between authoritarianism and liberalism right now. And I want everybody to understand, I am not neutral in that contest. I believe in a liberal political order — an order built not just through elections and representative government, but also through respect for the dignity of the player and due process.

I know that some alliances, which now recognize the power of free economic growth among players still reject the model of free politics within alliance. And perhaps those of us who have been promoting democracy feel somewhat discouraged by the growth indiscriminate NAP and authoritarian rule, because we’ve learned that democracy, freedom, and liberty will not just wash across the worlds in a single wave.

It turns out building accountable institutions is hard work — the work of many worlds. The gains are often fragile. Sometimes we take one step forward and then two steps back. And so, given the difficulty in forging true democracy in the face of these pressures, it’s no surprise that some argue the future favors the strongman, a top-down model, rather than strong, democratic institutions.

But I believe this thinking is wrong. I believe the road of true democracy remains the better path. I believe that in the future, alliances can only grow to a certain point until they need to open up — because a few people can not find what is best for the group or completely understand the best options and needs of each player --- Without this evolution, ultimately expectations of people will not be met; suppression and stagnation will set in. And history shows that authoritarians Grepolis leaders are then left with two paths — permanents NAP until the end of the game or obscene expenditures of gold, both which stall the growth of the game.

Now, I will admit, my belief that governments serve the individual, and not the other way around, is shaped by America’s story and admiration for Ancient Greece Political Philosophy.

We really have nothing to lose by trying to set up democratic alliances, but those who have been benefiting from this dictatorials ways have everything to lose. They have already showed us that they have failed and stagnated this wonderful game.
you have it backwards. democracy implies working with other people. so those following your democratic tendencies would be the ones making all the NAPs and pacts. the authoritarian is the one most likely to skip the diplomacy and go straight to war. its science.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
you have it backwards. democracy implies working with other people. so those following your democratic tendencies would be the ones making all the NAPs and pacts. the authoritarian is the one most likely to skip the diplomacy and go straight to war. its science.
Perhaps, I have it backward, perhaps I do not.
Athenian Democracy facilitated the conquering and expansion of Greek culture and dominance in the Mediterranean.
The same can be said about the Roman Senate who contributed to success of the Roman Empire.
You could argue the same about the English Empire, and to some extent the supremacy of the United States in the 20th Century.
Democratic institutions make better decisions for countries and organizations.

On the contrary, the Soviet Union and Nazy Germany would tend to do pacts and just gang up on small countries.
It is very similar to what you guys do in Victrix and Invicta. Non Aggression Pacts and division of oceans.
 
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MAC-9

Chiliarch
Perhaps, I have it backward, perhaps I do not.
Athenian Democracy facilitated the conquering and expansion of Greek culture and dominance in the Mediterranean.
The same can be said about the Roman Senate who contributed to success of the Roman Empire.
You could argue the same about the English Empire, and to some extent the supremacy of the United States in the 20th Century.
Democratic institutions make better decisions for countries and organizations.

On the contrary, the Soviet Union and Nazy Germany would tend to do pacts and just gang up on small countries.
It is very similar to what you guys do in Victrix and Invicta. Non Aggression Pacts and division of oceans.
you do have it backwards. the city state of athens was a democracy. they went into decline because of civil war within the greek world. the democratic athenians wanted peace and unity, but the authoritarian spartans wanted supreme control, so they fought against each other.

Rome was a republic. not a democracy. and eventually it was taken over as a dictatorship. when that happened is when the roman empire expanded the most aggressively. think Julius Caesar and Augustus.

the English Empire was a monarchy. (this should be common knowledge. how did you get that one wrong?)

next you will enlighten us on how the democratic napoleon conquered europe?
 
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MAC-9

Chiliarch
Ok, so I want to say that you guys have to stay on topic here. If y'all want to argue about the points of government I'm plenty sure there are topics already in the Off Topic forums.
was this a joke? haha i'm going to close this... probably not?
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
you do have it backwards. the city state of athens was a democracy. they went into decline because of civil war within the greek world. the democratic athenians wanted peace and unity, but the authoritarian spartans wanted supreme control, so they fought against each other.

Rome was a republic. not a democracy. and eventually it was taken over as a dictatorship. when that happened is when the roman empire expanded the most aggressively. think Julius Caesar and Augustus.

the English Empire was a monarchy. (this should be common knowledge. how did you get that one wrong?)

next you will enlighten us on how the democratic napoleon conquered europe?
God, please give me patience and strength. Yes, England was Monarchy, but they had Carta Magna and the House of Commons and the British Parliament.
"No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled. Nor will we proceed with force against him except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land. To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice".

This clause limits the power of rulers, and introduces the idea of lawful process and the idea of a jury. The main points of the document as:

  1. No-one is above the law, even the king.
  2. Right to a fair trial.
  3. People who are taxed should have some kind of representation.
The Magna Carta "established a number of important principles, which have been copied around the world... It inspired the US Constitution and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights".

The freedom of the individual and the inclusion of democratic institutions in Athens, Rome, England, and the USA, were some of the major ingredients of growth.

I am sorry to say, but you run Victrix and Invicta more like Stalinist Russia or National Socialism Germany prior to World War II.
 

MAC-9

Chiliarch
that is a charter outlining rights of citizens. it doesn't have much to do with the type of government or who or how many hold all the power. there was still a hierarchy with the monarch on top. most half way decent alliances have a list of alliance rules. its essentially the same thing as the magna carta.

you can't compare our winning teams to socialism either. which is a type of economy controlled by a government where wealth is redistributed, not a type of governing system. socialism fails because it doesn't account for growth. so no team that grows so dominant compare to their competition could possibly be compared to socialism. free market capitalist economies can grow exponentially and will win every time. it is has less to do with the type of government.

athens was a city state that had to trade with their neighbors to get enough food and other necessities. a trade economy is the basis of free markets and capitalism. after their civilization fell, their citizens became slaves of the beginnings of the roman empire. the roman empire's economy was also a trade economy, but it was so powerful because they used slave labor to cut the costs of doing business. the English Empire also had a trade economy. imperialist trade though. they conquered other lands and sold their people as slaves to be used to make the crown even more wealth with their free labor, similar to the Roman Empire, but on a much larger scale. hell, even parts of the US were begun on the profits from slave labor and slave trade. the US has always had a trade economy too. the thing in common that all your examples have is their trade based economies, not who had a say
 
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Kal Gordon

Phrourach
The freedom of the individual and the inclusion of democratic institutions in Athens, Rome, England, and the USA, were some of the major ingredients of growth.
Except that "freedom and inclusion" didn't apply to everyone.
  • Athenian democracy allowed all citizens to be involved in politics, which sounds inclusive until you remember that women, children and slaves were not considered citizens, nor were immigrants or those who had at least 1 non-Athenian parent. Plus, slavery sort of contrasts with the concept of freedom.
  • Membership of the Roman Senate relied upon familial status to an extent and excluded women. Citizenship was restricted, and slavery a major industry. The emperors arguably had greater power than the senate, an example being the Praetorian Guard.
  • The British Empire used slavery, and women lacked the vote for a significant period of time.
  • Slavery existed in the United States, and even after it was abolished, inequality and true freedom remained an issue.

Separately, I would note that neither Mac nor Silver Witch are actually in Victrix, so that sort of nulls the point of them running it in any way, let alone the way that you have suggested.

Also, given the Star Wars references, is all of this "freedom" talk reminding anyone else of Anakin's proclamation: "I have brought peace, freedom, justice and security to my new empire", in Episode III?
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
that is a charter outlining rights of citizens. it doesn't have much to do with the type of government or who or how many hold all the power. there was still a hierarchy with the monarch on top. most half way decent alliances have a list of alliance rules. its essentially the same thing as the magna carta.

you can't compare our winning teams to socialism either. which is a type of economy controlled by a government where wealth is redistributed, not a type of governing system. socialism fails because it doesn't account for growth. so no team that grows so dominant compare to their competition could possibly be compared to socialism. free market capitalist economies can grow exponentially and will win every time. it is has less to do with the type of government.

athens was a city state that had to trade with their neighbors to get enough food and other necessities. a trade economy is the basis of free markets and capitalism. after their civilization fell, their citizens became slaves of the beginnings of the roman empire. the roman empire's economy was also a trade economy, but it was so powerful because they used slave labor to cut the costs of doing business. the English Empire also had a trade economy. imperialist trade though. they conquered other lands and sold their people as slaves to be used to make the crown even more wealth with their free labor, similar to the Roman Empire, but on a much larger scale. hell, even parts of the US were begun on the profits from slave labor and slave trade. the US has always had a trade economy too. the thing in common that all your examples have is their trade based economies, not who had a say
Are you kidding me? are you saying that Charter of rights of citizens has little to do with democracy?
The Carta Magna showed us it was possible to build societies based on the rule of law and respect for the liberty of all people. It paved the way for modern democracies and allowed the successful economic growth of Britain and the USA. Long term sustained growth in trade and production requires political and economic freedom.

Why is so hard for you to admit that history has shown time after time that nations and empires who have democratic institutions do better?
Why is it that you love so much your dictatorial and top down, authoritarian, fascist alliances?

This thread was a call to the arms towards Victrix. It was not for you fascist clowns to come and defend dictatorial and undemocratic governing alliances.