A New Dawn Against the Dragons

DeletedUser

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sceeth said:
A couple months ago, while talking to Valerio, I looked up all the various sets of alliance bp in order to disprove the assertion that Phalanx's attacking ability was the joke everyone always seemed to think. Absolute bp was meaningless, as so many confounding variables (alliance size, position, history) give statistical artifacts. So I used the ratio of offensive/defensive bp, which gives you a general idea of whether an alliance spends most of its wars on the offensive or defensive end. (we had a ratio of 1.463 at the time, which was 8th of the top 15 alliances. Not exactly a mongol horde razing everything in its path, but not something to sneeze at either)

Now this says nothing about skill. A skilled alliance can play defensively, getting a ratio of .3 or .4, while using those gained culture levels to easily absorb ghosts, until the attacker finds himself exhausted, surrounded, and beset by an opponent with full intelligence of his style and capability.

But if you're concerned with bp (which in itself says nothing of skill) this ratio gives you a better idea of whether an alliance should concern you as a potential threat than absolute bp would. At the time of my research, ML had a ratio of 1.735, in 4th. By comparison, Pheno had a ratio of 1.063 and Xmortis had a ratio of .820 in 14th. The only alliance with a lower rank was TeA. Those figures certainly shifted over time, but the shifts wouldn't be major.

So if you contend that ML used other DH as puppets and did not fight in-game themselves, use the map to back your statement. Use border comparison or stats on city turnover. But don't use bp as your metric, as it suggests ML in fact fought disproportionately to their size/position.
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You can't be serious? lol You talk of 'statistical artifacts' and that so many 'confounding variables' give meaningless results? Yet at the same time you also quote the 'offensive/defensive bp' ratios which are again meaningless crap. Again that is not a representation of 'how good an alliance is'. If you want any semblance of at least something that shows how well an alliance can play as an alliance, then just have a look at how well an alliance defends itself and unites, perhaps then u can gain some meaning in 'stats'. Its easy to farm attack for BP, just go attack inactives, ghost or players not in game..no skill there. Try staying up and defending, timing your defenses, etc...some skill there but not 1 stat defines a 'good alliance' or how 'effective' an alliance is. Premium and research does something, and can certainly add to these 'ratios'..pfft...meaningless to relate it to skill.

How about everyone first agrees on what a good alliance means, then you can move forward and look for one....Define through ideals/definition first, not through 'stats'. Perhaps a mixture of leadership, teamwork and several other factors of which i couldn't be assed defining or discussing with such idiots really.. go do a degree in statistical management, gain some leadership skills instead and use then in real life rather than in a game.

[PnP]Seriously too much testosterone in here....[/PnP]

Evil Q
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
You guys sure don't like me. I got mentioned more times in the Dragon Slayers declaration of existence than Dragon Slayers themselves! Just because I like being annoying to my enemies on the forums in a way that requires an argument does not mean I'm doing a heck of a lot in game. Everything that EH is, is down to the excellent team of players we have, I'm merely a voice for them on the forums (I feel sorry for them haha).

I post on here to defend my alliance and friends and to poke fun at my enemies. That is all. If that's considered immature then fine. I'm so sorry Q, that I have shown some immaturity playing the serious browser-based game that is Grepolis.

Oh and perhaps you didn't see "back cloak and dagger manipulation" when EH was formed because there is no reason for it. Our only real enemies when merging were Phenomen and Xmortis (our joke name "Phenosin Xtorture" was just poking fun at you two). It turns out that Phenomen and Xmortis each have a long list of enemies/alliances that did not like them. Now, with the merge, so too has this list of enemies merged. We have done nothing to change the minds of anyone, merely facilitated what was already there. If you want to propagate that as "back cloak and dagger manipulation" it's your choice, but it's clear to those that matter what has happened.

Don't hate us because we're beautiful, hate us because your allies thinks we are! - Oh how immature of me! *runs off in an immature-like fashion*
 

DeletedUser12662

Guest
"You can't be serious? lol You talk of 'statistical artifacts' and that so many 'confounding variables' give meaningless results? Yet at the same time you also quote the 'offensive/defensive bp' ratios which are again meaningless crap."

I'm quite serious. I'm the first to admit that bp ratios are less than ideal. For example, they don't take into account scaling effects, and standard deviation. (at least not the way they've been used so far.) It's relatively easy for a small alliance to temporarily achieve a high or low ranking through chance alone. I don't think you are suggesting Pheno and ML fit that description however.

I didn't bring up bp. I'm merely pointing out that if you want to use a meaningless metric, the bp ratios (which are at least marginally useful, as opposed to absolute bp) are not your friend.

"Again that is not a representation of 'how good an alliance is'. If you want any semblance of at least something that shows how well an alliance can play as an alliance, then just have a look at how well an alliance defends itself and unites, perhaps then u can gain some meaning in 'stats'"

I believe I alluded to this with my first sentence of my second paragraph in my previous post. You say I can't be serious, and within moments you're repeating me in near perfect harmony. Quite a swing there. I'm a little confused.

"Premium and research does something, and can certainly add to these 'ratios'..pfft...meaningless to relate it to skill."

1: using research IS skill. Or refraining from using it is lack thereof.
2: Premiums throw off kill/loss ratios. They have minimal impact on abp/dbp. That's one of the reasons I chose the latter instead of the former. Oh sure, there is probaby at least one chaotic madman who activates the sea captain when he sends out a fleet of LS, but never does the same when the attack is headed the other way. But unless his condition runs rampant throughout our community, it won't have much impact on the abp/dbp ratio.

"go do a degree in statistical management, gain some leadership skills instead and use then in real life rather than in a game."

Are you still talking to me? You haven't quoted anyone else in that post, so the logical assumption is that you are. Plus rep to whomever first makes an accurate guess as to why this last quote is hilariously ironic.

"Seriously too much testosterone in here"

I blame that alliance that formed to meat women. They must have driven most of the girls away.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
-Achilles- said:
Dragon Slayers - The Truth

Recently you will all have seen a new powerhouse has entered Beta, the name? Dragon Slayers. It has come to our attention that some people have been misinformed about why Phenomen and Xmortis merged and now we intend to give the real answers in this public annoucement.

As you know on the 1st of February this year Phenomen's diplomacy looked like this;



This was due to the actions of the Dragon Heads, most notably VP, the cause of this war was Phenomen's war with Xmortis, which started in January. Phenomen in a week or so had gone over 100 conquers up on Xmortis and looked be cruising to victory. This is where the trouble started, VP concerned for their influence in ocean 64 with Phenomen taking X cities their backstabbed Phenomen and broke the NAP agreement we had between us. They asked for the other Dragon Heads into war and ML worried for Phenomen's growing dominance in the world swiftly joined in. It didn't stop there, for ML had been so kind as to declare war for its little Dragon Head puppets PoC and CotH as well, pulling the strings nicely. And so war ensued Phenomen Versus.

Just before our merge our diplomacy looked like this;



A change no? We have thrown down our enemies SES and StoneCutters, while CoTH quickly recgonised eGod's manipulation and pulled out of the Dragon Heads. While Dark Judgement came to their senses also. Our pressure caused weaknesses in ML and VP and they merged to form Event Horizon to eliminate the inactivity that was breeding, effectively becoming what they hate? Hypocrisy no? And that leaves only Xmortis...

Soon after eGod incited Phenomen hate and pulled the strings for alliances to attack, VP broke their pact with Xmortis in a bid to further control ocean 64. Now once again seems a little hypocritcial as the poor excuse they gave for fighting Phenomen was that we had betrayed X? So surely they couldn't be doing the same. But they were so Phenomen and Xmortis signed peace to concentrate on each others enemies. Eventually we decided to merge together and pool our intrests and Beta for that you only have to thank the Dragon Heads for their backstabing, especially VP. If you do align with the Dragon Heads expect to be backstabbed, expect to have enemies poached from you - example Blessed One who lost 13 cities to Phenomen before fleeing as a refugee to PoC.

The truth is that this merge is simply a counter response against the backstabbing activities of the manipulator eGod and his little posse. Even if Dragon Slayers don't touch you, expect to have a tough fight ahead... if your allied with eGod.

This PA is courtesy of Phenomenal Productions.

efl28o.png


I am sorry i couldn't entertain you with this post, but this cold truth is more enlightening as some the facts in here might not have been included.​
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I am shocked.. in all my time on this game I have never read such lies and woes is us stories.

when I read this all I hear is....
" oh beta world, do you not see the big scary DH and its heavy handed ways and wars of aggression, little old PHENOMEN and XMORTIS ( the 2 biggest alliance) can't very well handle them so we had to come together out of safety, we have never attacked any alliance for solid reason beyond our concept of E-manifest destiny, we have never tried to weaken our eneimes by using our allies and size to intimidate other into doing our bidding. Its been all lies! eGOD is pulling strings behind his Ruby colored curtian do not believe him!."

-Achilles- you are a goddamn fruad, its sick how twisted your perception of this world and its inter alliance politics is, and if that how the DragonSlayer feel about what has really happened, that you are NOT an aggressor then we should just call DS, AMERICA and that this merge is to help fight the WAR ON TERROR!.

This disinformation makes me sick!.
 

DeletedUser345

Guest
sceeth said:
By comparison, Pheno had a ratio of 1.063 and Xmortis had a ratio of .820 in 14th.
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I'm presuming this is meant to be some sort of insult to our alliances but you fail to realise Phenomen had 8 enemies attacking them so that is standard dbp x8 so lets say 800 def if we use 100 def as one alliance attacking, meanwhile ML had one enemy, likewise PoC, VP etc. and Phenomen had divided there offensive amongst all 8 enemies so thats 100 divided by 8 so 12.5.

So Phenomens def intake is 800
ML's, PoCs and VPs def intake is 12.5

Now on the other hand in offensive:

Phenomen attack 8 alliances so 100 x 8 = 800 att, meanwhile ML, PoC, VP attack 1 so 100 att.

So Phenomens att intake is 800
ML's, PoCs and VPs att intake is 100.

So thats how much they are taking in daily, as you can see Phenomen are taking in as much dbp as they are getting abp so there ratio is roughly 1 so like what you got for your calculations. Meanwhile ML, PoC, VP are gaining 100 att in comparison to only taking on 12.5 def a day so they will have a ratio of 8.

So your method isn't effective as it doesn't show wo are the 'attackers' and who are the 'defenders' as that depends ont he amount of enemies...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
-Achilles- you are a goddamn fruad, its sick how twisted your perception of this world and its inter alliance politics is

qlander lets be honest everyone does have a perpective you have yours he has his and how does that make him a fraud
 

DeletedUser

Guest
-Achilles- said:
I'm presuming this is meant to be some sort of insult to our alliances but you fail to realise Phenomen had 8 enemies attacking them so that is standard dbp x8 so lets say 800 def if we use 100 def as one alliance attacking, meanwhile ML had one enemy, likewise PoC, VP etc. and Phenomen had divided there offensive amongst all 8 enemies so thats 100 divided by 8 so 12.5.

So Phenomens def intake is 800
ML's, PoCs and VPs def intake is 12.5

Now on the other hand in offensive:

Phenomen attack 8 alliances so 100 x 8 = 800 att, meanwhile ML, PoC, VP attack 1 so 100 att.

So Phenomens att intake is 800
ML's, PoCs and VPs att intake is 100.

So thats how much they are taking in daily, as you can see Phenomen are taking in as much dbp as they are getting abp so there ratio is roughly 1 so like what you got for your calculations. Meanwhile ML, PoC, VP are gaining 100 att in comparison to only taking on 12.5 def a day so they will have a ratio of 8.

So your method isn't effective as it doesn't show wo are the 'attackers' and who are the 'defenders' as that depends ont he amount of enemies...
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Umm.... ML have had around 4-5 enemies/wars for a long time now. We just don't cry about how many enemies we have in the forums all the time. The main one of course is DS but we also war SC, ET, random Afti one, and up until recently WoK.

You are such a misguided forum poster between this and your recent PnP. You should really look into the alliances you are trying to burn before going at it.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
eGOD said:
Umm.... ML have had around 4-5 enemies/wars for a long time now. We just don't cry about how many enemies we have in the forums all the time. The main one of course is DS but we also war SC, ET, random Afti one, and up until recently WoK.

You are such a misguided forum poster between this and your recent PnP. You should really look into the alliances you are trying to burn before going at it.
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Right 5 members in SC?And your not even close to half of your wars.
 

DeletedUser12662

Guest
"I'm presuming this is meant to be some sort of insult to our alliances but you fail to realise Phenomen had 8 enemies attacking them"

Not at all achilles. I don't think you, Q, and myself are actually in disagreement. Yet it seems getting any acknowledgment of this is harder than pulling teeth. I'm not coming into this argument as a staunch dracophile. Egod doesn't "win" if you admit my point.

You're right that having multiple enemies can unfairly drop your abp/dbp ratio compared to an equally skilled alliance that fights one at a time. But don't you see that in your explanation you proved my own point? By your own admission Pheno was unable to target a hypothetical enemy to the extent its size would imply, due to this split of attention. To an outside alliance, looking at aggressive activity, Pheno would appear proportionally less dangerous than other alliances such as ML.

As I said, I didn't chime in here to criticize DS. I merely wished to persuade you that if you wanted to attack the nature of ML, the ubiquitous focus on bp was the wrong way to do so. Since you all seem to have flashes of insight during which you already know this, I'm having a hard time understanding these responses.

To put it another way, we all know the flat-earth maps are horrible. But instead of drawing up better ones, yall are traipsing across the planet to take the measurements that will disprove the spherical model I set out as an arbitrary example, so that you might brand me a heretic. Meanwhile, all our ships continue to be lost at sea.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
stats are all BS, just seems dumb-*** players dont get it.

mass attacking players and feeding them isn't skill, nor is attacking/farming inactives and ghost towns just to get that 'ratio' up lmfao..its called stat padding....i'm not going to tell u anymore about it, so u can learn for yourself how to play effectively....you think if i send 15k+ LS's to clear all your and your allies navy support is 'skill' just to gain an Offensive rank? you think I play as stupidly as you guys do? lol wow, what kind of dumb-asses are you here? lmao

- EvilQ
 
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DeletedUser

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The Penguinator said:
...qlander lets be honest everyone does have a perpective you have yours he has his and how does that make him a fraud
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actually it does, cos its clear what his intent is - manipulate all info to attain his objectives by emotionally backmailing/manipulating others so they go against his own enemies. Its called directed negativity, but manipulated by him with his 'opinion' - rather than just stating the facts, he states what he 'thinks' about them...lmao what a joke, its childish psychology...


-EvilQ
 
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DeletedUser345

Guest
eGOD said:
Umm.... ML have had around 4-5 enemies/wars for a long time now. We just don't cry about how many enemies we have in the forums all the time. The main one of course is DS but we also war SC, ET, random Afti one, and up until recently WoK.

You are such a misguided forum poster between this and your recent PnP. You should really look into the alliances you are trying to burn before going at it.
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Those wars are just touch and go at different points ours have been long sustained ones... and how could you fight WoK they are right in the south and your right in the north. ET and Afti can't be called quality top 15 alliances either so the effect is reduced but still with five enemies.

ML's att would be 500
ML's def (12.5 off Pheno, 100 ET, 100 SC, WotK 0, 12.5 Afti) would be 225 so a ratio of 2.2 daily intake. So still... thats not considering SC are dead and the wars are shortened periods throughout the long war with Phenomen.
 

DeletedUser345

Guest
The Penguinator said:
-Achilles- you are a goddamn fruad, its sick how twisted your perception of this world and its inter alliance politics is

qlander lets be honest everyone does have a perpective you have yours he has his and how does that make him a fraud
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It wasn't Q who said that it was Devyn, I would just like to ask you Devyn what the 'real' truth is if this misinformation is so sick. You claim that but you don't tell us what 'actually' happened do you. No, you don't.
 
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