Am I Allowed To Time?

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Pennaone

Phrourach
Disclaimer: I want answers, and I feel the community would benefit from sharing in them. Therefore, I bent over backward and deleted a fairly large portion of my text to ensure that it met the standards of the forum regulations. I would like to also make it clear that I never mention a single in-game or forum ban. My issues revolve around warnings.

Preface: Earlier today I unjustly received a warning for using illegal scripts/bots, this only a week after receiving an equally unmerited warning for spam. I originally intended to write this as a response to my ticket but as I began writing the incredulity became overwhelming and I just felt the community should have an open and honest conversation about these issues. My goal with this post is certainly to convey my displeasure and astonishment but at the same time, and more importantly, improve our community and time spent in the game.

Allegations / My comments: Firstly, I have never botted nor used illegal scripts. You don’t have to believe me, and I also won’t try to convince you as that’s not the point of this post. However, trusting in my innocence is foundational to recognizing the issues that surround this situation.
Secondly, I’m not a name you’re likely to recognize, but for anyone that does happen to know me, they know I don’t resort to spamming. I am, at times, an aggressive player, but I never spam anyone unless I’m reciprocating (shoutout Bibor and Kurbads). I'm not here to debate what constitutes spam either, the fact of the matter is I wasn't even toeing the line of spammy behavior when I got my warning. Lastly, in regards to both allegations, if I was guilty, or if I felt I had gotten a little out of hand with my attacks, I really wouldn't be hassling myself with this wall of text, I'd wear the warnings and be more careful in the future. But I'm here, and I'm malding for a reason.


Now, for the events of the past week. I had been having a quiet weekend, the only attacks that I had sent out were a handful of hc’s and then a bunch of attacks separated among two different force-landings, each attempt only lasting for about an hour apiece. However, shortly after my own CS landed I got my first warning, this one was for spam and violation of fair-play.

In a very detailed, albeit confused reply I explain how I only ever attacked/recalled when timing onto my CS and even went to great lengths to essentially write Mod 1 a guide to force-landing so he could understand what I was doing wasn’t spam but legit timing attempts, attacks and a simple LS lock.

Ticket 1: I receive this in response:
"The problem is the number of attacks during the day as there was a lot of them, starting from early morning. Timing a colony ship is not a problem, of course, but not letting the player rest, overwhelming command overview and other things are."

Someone come get their boy Mod 1

I came nowhere near attacking enough to stop this player from resting, and beyond that they were taking my total number of non-player-specific attacks into consideration when it has no relevance and is an absolutely useless metric. If I want to attack every single player on a server over the course of a day, I am allowed to do so, provided I am sending real attacks that serve a purpose, whether that is BP, resources or Cs’ing. Despite being an unreliable metric, it is used consistently to dish out FP violations and warnings. Just recently, a teammate of mine suffered a punishment while herc’ing me. This was later corrected but my friend was guilty until proven innocent.

After reading that response I’ve never slapped the “elevate” button on a ticket so fast before. Mod 2 got the ticket and I was able to work it out with someone that understood the game a bit better. I ended our conversation hoping to avoid more of these incessant back and forths, Conversations in which I found myself being forced to defend myself but where, true to the system, I was deemed guilty until proven innocent. I wrote the following:

“I time onto players often and at a moderately high level... I don't want to risk a ban just because I get reported by every single player and then you guys think that it establishes a "pattern" when im only actually trying to play the game at the highest level I am capable of.”

Ticket 2: A week after that message, I get another warning, this time for scripts and botting. Thanks Obama Mod 2

Look, it’s not my fault people don’t know how to time properly in this game. A high majority of the player base still thinks that consistent same second commands are the result of a “timing bot”. I would hope, however, that if that player reported me the mods would be knowledgeable enough to see how baseless those botting claims were.

Instead, I get a warning telling me to delete any illegal script. I ask for clarification and of course, get the automated script warning copy pasta. Each line pushes me closer to the edge, the sheer AUDACITY and number of outright falsehoods in that one message were staggering.

“Unfortunately I am unable to provide any data from our tools, nor can I reveal any of the methods we use to detect rule breaking, as this would only serve to help rule breakers cheat more effectively in the future.” Revealing the aforementioned methods would also, however, make clear how weak this "evidence" is in some cases, and as I know now, completely missing in others.

“I am sorry I can't be of any more help but please understand that we do not warn or ban without reason and careful examination of all the evidence available to us.”

Sorry to burst your bubble, but “warn without reason and careful examination of the evidence” is exactly what was just pulled on me. Evidence? What evidence? It’s existence is quite literally an impossibility. I have never touched a bot or illegal script throughout my entire ten year span of playing this game. I run Dio, GCRC and Indexer (illegal btw) 24//7 and nothing else. Do I need to stream myself timing to convince you its possible? Honestly, people act as if we’re out here trying to line-up a cs using a Forza 4 steering wheel instead of a mouse, its not that hard. Time and time again I find myself explaining features of this game that I shouldn’t have to. It’s unreal.

During the same attempt, a teammate of mine received the same alleged infraction. What's particularly funny about this is that the player in question didn't even use tampermonkey let alone GCRC and Dio until two days ago when he was forced to install them. You're tossing out unsubstantiated accusations at regular players because they time their stuff? how is this normal?


Conclusion
My natural response is wrought with anger, insults and accusations, and I've tried tempering it down as much as possible. I want to be clear here, that none of these sentiments are leveled at you, Mod 2, (nor any other mod I’ve been in contact with), but rather at the structure of Grepolis as a whole. While I express frustration in my conversations with both Mod 2 & Mod 1, it is more so directed at the automated responses and the people behind the mods. Or rather, the people that should be behind them, Inno. The ones that should be ensuring that the mods are adequately equipped with the game knowledge necessary to you know, moderate.


But honestly, I’m at an absolute loss. I have fun in this game by timing onto cities and I also find that that level of higher stakes competition (compared to hourly hc’s until your adversary is asleep) is much more enjoyable personally. But I have to go to bat every time I force-land someone because they reported me for getting cq'd? That’s simply wild.

I'm quite over the constant back and forths to be honest and want to know how to proceed. I got a warning today, my second, because I was once again reported out of ignorance and anger by my fellow players who don’t understand every aspect of how this game works. That's fine, few do and I don't pretend to be one of them; that doesn't mean you need to file reports everytime you get beat. Here’s a crazy concept folks: When it comes to a 10 year old browser game, entertain the possibility that people have figured out the optimal way of timing attacks and supports. Aphrodite exists. That should be the end of it but unfortunately, it's not. The fact that that report became a legitimate warning for TWO offenses that I didn’t commit is simply too much to just take on the chin and carry on.


How am I expected to play and spend money on this game when it’s arbitration is wrought with confusion and inexperience, or perhaps they're simply not given the tools to monitor these situations properly. I sincerely hope this doesn’t get taken down as that would just further axe my confidence in this community. My goal would be for this to turn into a discussion where both the mods and player base can benefit.

I've attached a couple of the force images below, the attempt a week and a half ago on "Firefly1234" resulted in a Fair-Play warning, while the two attempts this past weekend on "Eye4eye" gave me a Botting/Scripts warning. Wat.

Lastly, a private note to my dear friends in Grepoholics Anonymous back in 136,
It was a solid attempt; and, while I can't really tell if these allegations were levied out of sheer ignorance or desperation, I can tell you that they have certainly done bits to my motivation. Every waking moment I spend on this game from this point on will be dedicated to ensuring I shove so many Cs's down your metaphorical throats I'll catch a FP ban for spamming your ally feed with city losses.
 

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DeletedUser52067

Guest
@Hydna @Baudin Toolan just because neither of you actually know how to play the game doesn't mean you can dish out warnings for what you consider to be too many attempts.

We all know you don't give warnings when players are actually caught with an automated script, its a straight ban. This is just a cop out when you have no proof and some dogshit MRA alliance mass reports a team trying to play properly. Figure it out
 

bugeyes10

Phrourach
We all know you don't give warnings when players are actually caught with an automated script, its a straight ban. This is just a cop out when you have no proof and some dogshit MRA alliance mass reports a team trying to play properly. Figure it out

What about the mysterious tools that we hear about but when you ask for more reasoning they tell you they can't give it? The same tools that told them a player who's never installed any script is using an illegal one.
 

Jimothy5

Chiliarch
yeah this is a stupid as hell series of warnings. Why are our teammates being warned/punished for playing the game at a high level? why should our team be punished for playing this game together at a high level? is it because we are beating the brakes of everyone and having the most fun while doing it??? our timing ops are super fun, we hop in a voice chat, communicate at a high level with each other to ensure our ops are on point and efficient, and we all know how to time.

TIMING IS NOT HARD. just because our opponents are too lazy or incompetent to do it does not mean it's impossible to time like this. The game mechanics are simple. Timing is a simple process. The game is NOT HARD. it simply requires effort. the fact that our players are willing to put in the effort, together, in a coordinated manner, does NOT make it cheating... A bot is actually too stupid to time as well as we can. Bot's are easy to beat, good coordination and communication is not.
 

Back2Basics

Chiliarch
Incompetence at its finest.

Pitiful to expect an alliance full of washed up, no name players to be adapt to the times or accept players can be better than them. Face it, you're not us, you'll never be us. Keep crying for getting timed in on because you don't have alarm responsive teammates who can hit snipes.

Learn to play the game and we'll be ready for your conglomerate of 400 players to have any sort of ability beyond whining until they get their way.

You all know who I am, and I INVITE you to try again, heard that city in your core is a good op target, maybe the third time is the charm.

Horrendous group of players committing a shameful act to the community and refusing to better themselves under a guise of moral superiority.

Like I said, I'll be waiting...
 
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bugeyes10

Phrourach
Incompetence at its finest.

Pitiful to expect an alliance full of washed up, no name players can't adapt to the times or accept players can be better than them. Face it, you're not us, you'll never be us. Keep crying for getting timed in on because you don't have alarm responsive teammates who can hit snipes.

Learn to play the game and we'll be ready for your conglomerate of 400 players to have any sort of ability beyond whining until they get their way.

You all know who I am, and I INVITE you to try again, heard that city in your core is a good op target, maybe the third time is the charm.

Horrendous group of players committing a shameful act to the community and refusing to better themselves under a guise of moral superiority.

Like I said, I'll be waiting...

That 239 unescorted cat nuke surely was the greatest Grepolis play I've ever seen
 

kingpg28

Phrourach
but imagine seeing someone using a bot and saying THIS IS A WARNING GET RID OF IT, lmaooo never in 10 years has someone got a warning for a script bs game and mods yall need to git gud
 

vincaocao

Phrourach
A preposterous, head-scratching sequence of warnings. Why even introduce sirens if you are just going to give bans and accusations towards players that correctly utilise this mechanic? The moderators are out of their depth. Instead of beating around the bush, should there not be an outright ban where there is allegedly, conclusive and indisputable evidence of usage of illegal scripts?

Perhaps, mass reporting may be a cathartic exercise and a small consolation after blowing event fliers (and almost 1k ladons) on a 26 wall, getting 1:4 BP ratios at best. Instead of reporting mindlessly, I would be seriously questioning the decision-making skills of my leaders at this point.
 

DeletedUser24450

Guest
don't forget the cat nuke escorted by ares army

Please do me and yourself a favor with some of your friends also. Don't try to be ironic on externals, cause you only expose yourself what a noob you are
 

Corvidaan

Phrourach
Please do me and yourself a favor with some of your friends also. Don't try to be ironic on externals, cause you only expose yourself what a noob you are
This is what I mean. BTS clearly much better at the game than venom noobs like Jimothy. I just wish we’d known that rather than fight stoppable, we could have got him banned for knowing how sirens and recalling work. Sadge
 

DeletedUser51777

Guest
Can we please remember the man behind the original push for a ban on timing
smiley-emoticons-cuinlove.gif


eSYyTON.png
 
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