Proposal Balancing DLU vs Myth event tokens

DeletedUser38766

Guest
tbh in this example i´d still pick erinyes lol :D because as Smilodon said they are more difficult to build. With Chiron you can build Hoplites very fast, there´s not that luxury for myths except tokens.
 
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Shuri2060

Strategos
tbh in this example i´d still pick erinyes lol :D because as Smilodon said they are more difficult to build. With Chiron you can build Hoplites very fast, there´s not that luxury for myths.
Exactly - but there's a little more to making that choice than before. If the Erinys token was even smaller, then maybe you would be convinced to take the Hoplites instead. This goes back to the point of balance I was referring to earlier.

For simplicity I only compared Hops vs Erinys in the example, but of course - there's Mantis, Harpies, Archers, Swords (or no swords for this event at least) to take into account. The hoplite token is probably oversized (considering it'll be even bigger on faster worlds and Democritus). What probably needs to happen is the Myth tokens being smaller and the DLU tokens being much larger - with respect to this current event, at least. imo tokens shouldn't exceed 2k pop on the fastest worlds, really.

There is most certainly a large imbalance between tokens in events, and I think the game/event designers should work towards minimizing this. Who needs to buy more Myth tokens than their inventory can take if the enemy isn't making DLU quickly enough to constantly kill their nukes during the event.

Also, with better balance you might still choose to stock up on Myths, but utilize the DLU tokens a lot during the event.
 
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ukcolonist

Hipparchus
Yeah thats the point, it shows how weak dlu tokens are, myth tokens are still better even with equal pop, but it would make dlu situationally better
 

Abominable Snowman

Hekatontarch
i agree with shuri.

The huuuuuge issue also is, events at the start of the world. Sometimes world is 2 weeks old when an event starts. At that time, its nearly impossible to hold sieges other then found. Everyone has fliers.

Shuris balancing proposal would help this issue aswell.
 

DeletedUser38766

Guest
So back to this topic. I find the idea very interesting though i think it wouldn´t change situation much better. I could see it only as a more BP generating token because how many times my flyers have hit air when going for siege break if you know what i mean ;). I posted earlier about heroes idea and Myth token removal. This maybe would be too much of a change as you said but after some thinking i don´t find it bad idea at all.

1. Myth nukes(flyers especially) i think should be fairly hard to get. At the moment it´s not because of these tokens. I think it would make it much more interesting if you had to work hard for this nuke.

2. Favor farming, Heracles and 2 possible new hero ideas would make building myth nukes easier and quicker but not as easy as with token and you still have to work hard and put time in if you want to get that full nuke as fast as possible. Heroes would be: 1)Hero that increases the favor production(For example level 20 increases 30-40%). 2) Hero that reduces cost and favor for myth units(for example instead of building 2 mantis at a time, level 20 hero makes possible to build 4-6 at a time).

3. About affecting event spending. Well maybe there is still solution. In spy reports you can see now also what god is worshipped. This maybe motivates in the future players to build more def myth nukes as well. So what if flyer tokens where instead replaced with def myth nukes? That dose not sound as attractive for sure but at least flyers would be again more rear to see. Or How about epic LS nuke? Or 30% LS boost token to make possible to everyone(very few can have it atm). Or maybe can compensate with extensions or 2x token. Also at the beginning of the world in the quest log you get that 100% troop building spell that builds troops instantly. What if this was introduced instead on events? For example 1-2 hours of it and is savable in inventory + wouldn´t make maybe demo almost useless.

4. From all the compensating ideas i brought into discussion above, i´d like to talk some more about these LS´s. Later stage of the game in CQ worlds there´s at least 10k birs in important sieges. If 30% boost was available to more players, or even lets say 300 pop extension tokens introduced. People could make make more 400 ls nukes in later stage and still with all the buffs get out 600+ birs with good luck in that stacked siege. And those who have also worked hard on building flyer nukes, can have other option.


This is now little bit better thought idea but i´m sure there´s still logic mistakes. But this is why y´all are here, to share the opinion:)
 

DeletedUser38766

Guest
One more idea popped into mind. There is 2 ways:
1) What if there was possibility to send any def myth to support siege? Does not matter what god is worshipped. Would this motivate players to get more def myth tokens maybe?
2) Or what if there was possibility for conquerer to change god to whatever they want? For example when you start sending CS out, there would be also option which god you’d like to have in siege. For city owner would worship still his own god so it wouldn’t affect myth front or back snipe.

Edit: Second option would be better imo however not sure how difficult or at all possible it would be coding wise.
 
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OutOfCharacters

Phrourach
We all know that in revolt worlds, DLU strength vs myth is not as much of a problem with the 140ish% defense boost from the wall, plus 10% more for a tower. For revolt worlds, the flyer buffs make people feel good, generate a lot of spend, and some annoyance... as they splat against walls and merely assist in the offensive strategy. A big spending team might slow the tide of a war during an event, but it generally isn't game-changing, except for a couple of the most myth-producing events that might occur in pivotal times. So the existing balance in events and power is probably well-suited for revolt, even though I don't like it. I don't think buffed DLU tokens are as necessary there, or would be purchased often.

In CQ I agree the balance is broken. Even if equally heavy golders sit on both sides, the offensive player "wins" the gold war.

If you introduced a second flying defensive myth (for speed, size of nuke, and ease of sending), and made the event tokens split between the offensive and defensive flyers, of equal pop value, not nerfed on the deff ones... maybe people would buy them. I think the major reason people would continue to buy the mants/griffs instead is because it's more sexy to smash things offensively. Most people don't gold hard to be the best defender in CQ, especially with no walls. This would, however, level the playing field a little more, especially if you could send them to a siege, and people would still get the joy of buying myths.

But if we take that concept back to revolt-- if I had that same flying myth available in events at the rate I'd suggest for CQ, or similar land-based defensive myths, it would overpower the defense too much.

With the two game types being so different, walls vs no walls, it's very difficult to find a balance to optimize both game modes unless you introduce a defensive unit or token to CQ that doesn't exist in revolt. Years ago CQ players built walls, but moved to no walls as players realized this imbalance and took advantage of it. Now for years no walls is assumed to be the way to play. A better question might be to step back and consider if that in itself is the problem the myth tokens created. Is what we consider the norm, no walls in CQ, without ever considering another strategy, actually a symptom of this broken game mechanic?

If you went with no myths in events, and similarly sized normal offensive and defensive land and sea unit tokens instead, that would not only eliminate the myth overpoweredness in CQ, it wouldn't really affect revolt worlds. Players would still spend as much because most spenders buy to overpower their enemies, regardless of what it is they're purchasing. Right now they are choosing the most powerful option available. In this scenario players would have to favor farm and build myths, and it might force more strategy across alliances in CQ to decide whether or not and where to use walls. Where to reserve no walls and myth breaks vs walls and DLU snipes/support with LS breaks. Could be an interesting shift. Anything creating a need to stop and think if you really want to blow your myth nuke would be a good change.
 
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DeletedUser38766

Guest
If you went with no myths in events, and similarly sized normal offensive and defensive land and sea unit tokens instead, that would not only eliminate the myth overpoweredness in CQ, it wouldn't really affect revolt worlds. Players would still spend as much because most spenders buy to overpower their enemies, regardless of what it is they're purchasing. Right now they are choosing the most powerful option available. In this scenario players would have to favor farm and build myths, and it might force more strategy across alliances in CQ to decide whether or not and where to use walls. Where to reserve no walls and myth breaks vs walls and DLU snipes/support with LS breaks. Could be an interesting shift. Anything creating a need to stop and think if you really want to blow your myth nuke would be a good change.

Yes exactly... And now if to talk more about event spending: 1) i could imagine hero coins to become pretty popular( especially if there were to come new heroes) 2) At the moment LS boost tokens are exclusive. So what if that become a normal and Instead quest log 100% token came exclusive. I think it would be a lot worth fighting for. Or well Both of them could be exclusive as well and just regular 10% and 20% attack/defense tokens were there. There could be hydras and medusas though as they are good both ways.

I legit also like the second def flyer myth idea especially if they were possible to send into sieges.
 
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DeletedUser54339

Guest
The problem really is it takes ages for the equivalent pop to generate with DLU tokens (usually at least 8 hours) whereas the myth tokens spawn fully in a shorter time. This makes Erinyes in particular way overpowered.
 
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