Colony Ship Research Change Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Baudin Toolan
- Start date
DeletedUser54192
Guest
I've got a bit of a mixed opinion on this. Definitely some pros, but a few cons too.
Pros:
- The race for Academy level 22 and harbour level 20 can be a bit boring at times: because you need to be funneling most of your resources into getting to this stage, fighting other players tends to take a back seat unless you have aggressive neighbours. Every time you have to rebuild a bunch of your army, it possibly delays the progress towards those oh so important building levels.
- Getting a 2nd city sooner into the game would probably keep more new players interested, as it would hopefully feel like they are making more progress.
- Restarting: some people restart because they are completely conquered. Others do it to go to another part of the map that they couldn't just reach with a CS - this happens a bit at the start of the world, mainly with people restarting to join alliances that drop in late, or to go and join friends that just arrived. Either way, that time spent getting back into the action can be a little frustrating.
Cons:
- Every city can be a CS-driving city without too much effort. (This applies to revolt worlds only, as conquest worlds actually require conquest for the city with the CS). While this might sound fun to use, allowing you to make and send CSs from almost every city (about the only city that wouldn't have harbour level 10 is a flier city, and those in themselves are a bit less common on revolt servers), imagine what it is going to be like if it is used on you. You have to check the CS travel times to a lot more cities than you might otherwise need to, and it could end up being a bit stressful for players.
- Devaluing spy reports? This sounds like an odd one, I know, but hear me out. Let's say I want to cripple an enemy player or enemy team. One of the easiest ways to at least cripple them for a short while is to target their CS cities. If I (or my alliance if done on a larger scale) can take those cities, I'll know I have a brief period where I am safer from enemy takeover attempts. Harbour 20 is one of the biggest giveaways for whether a city is a CS city or not. I know that later in the game, you will have a lot of harbours at 20+, especially for naval cities, or if you have a high attrition rate. But early in the game, that harbour level 20 is pretty distinctive. Without that, it is harder to use spies to work out which cities are CS cities, unless you spot a CS in the harbour (although technically that's not a guarantee - I've had at least one enemy player extremely confused by how I had a CS in a city with a harbour way below level 20, when in fact it was a CS being hidden their by one of my teammates).
Pros:
- The race for Academy level 22 and harbour level 20 can be a bit boring at times: because you need to be funneling most of your resources into getting to this stage, fighting other players tends to take a back seat unless you have aggressive neighbours. Every time you have to rebuild a bunch of your army, it possibly delays the progress towards those oh so important building levels.
- Getting a 2nd city sooner into the game would probably keep more new players interested, as it would hopefully feel like they are making more progress.
- Restarting: some people restart because they are completely conquered. Others do it to go to another part of the map that they couldn't just reach with a CS - this happens a bit at the start of the world, mainly with people restarting to join alliances that drop in late, or to go and join friends that just arrived. Either way, that time spent getting back into the action can be a little frustrating.
Cons:
- Every city can be a CS-driving city without too much effort. (This applies to revolt worlds only, as conquest worlds actually require conquest for the city with the CS). While this might sound fun to use, allowing you to make and send CSs from almost every city (about the only city that wouldn't have harbour level 10 is a flier city, and those in themselves are a bit less common on revolt servers), imagine what it is going to be like if it is used on you. You have to check the CS travel times to a lot more cities than you might otherwise need to, and it could end up being a bit stressful for players.
- Devaluing spy reports? This sounds like an odd one, I know, but hear me out. Let's say I want to cripple an enemy player or enemy team. One of the easiest ways to at least cripple them for a short while is to target their CS cities. If I (or my alliance if done on a larger scale) can take those cities, I'll know I have a brief period where I am safer from enemy takeover attempts. Harbour 20 is one of the biggest giveaways for whether a city is a CS city or not. I know that later in the game, you will have a lot of harbours at 20+, especially for naval cities, or if you have a high attrition rate. But early in the game, that harbour level 20 is pretty distinctive. Without that, it is harder to use spies to work out which cities are CS cities, unless you spot a CS in the harbour (although technically that's not a guarantee - I've had at least one enemy player extremely confused by how I had a CS in a city with a harbour way below level 20, when in fact it was a CS being hidden their by one of my teammates).
curadh
Phrourach
As Sandbox 7 gives a conquest time of 9 hours I'm assuming that it is a conquest world? So I'm also assuming that the requirement for conquest to be researched has either been removed for colonizing and ghosts or been brought much further forward in academy .. if not then its a waste of time anyway.
But developers continue to ignore what has been asked for (a new end game) and continue with 'improvements' like these. Surely development funds would be better utilised in keeping the existing player base (who are being driven away by the constant dumbing down) happy?
But developers continue to ignore what has been asked for (a new end game) and continue with 'improvements' like these. Surely development funds would be better utilised in keeping the existing player base (who are being driven away by the constant dumbing down) happy?
DeletedUser54192
Guest
I hadn't checked all the settings, but I assumed that a change like this would be made on all servers, not just conquest servers, if the change were introduced.
You don't need conquest research for colonisation anyways, which I think is their point - they want people to be able to colonise quickly and get more cities. As it is, a lot of people sometimes ignore early colonisation and just rush for conquest ability and then start taking cities.
The thing is, while a lot of people will just focus on CQ as I think it was the original takeover method, and seems to have a lot of the hype on these forums, it needs to be considered how it would impact both conquest and revolt. And because you don't have to send the CS from the city that you sent the revolt attack with, nor do you have to have conquest researched to land a CS in revolt servers, this has a huge impact on takeover tactics in revolt servers.
DeletedUser5061
Guest
Basically eliminating any chance of rimming a player at the beginning of a server. Implement that kind of sh.. on a world I start in, I am outta here.
DeletedUser41523
Guest
I guess this pro-longs the noob alliances a little longer.
DeletedUser54360
Guest
Well that s an alternative way of keeping no hopers in teh game for longer.
DeletedUser54192
Guest
Not just the no-hopers though. I would actually have thought that this would appeal to you. I bet there are a fair few new players who get conquered early on by some experienced or gold-using player nearby, which leads to them quitting because they think that there is no place for new blood in the community. So, as much as I dislike its other consequences, this development could increase the number of new players that actually stay in the game long enough to get hooked.
DeletedUser41523
Guest
Well if used right it could be useful for Less powerful teams. Let's say I land in a bad spot. Myself or a horribly overwhelmed team. Next to a strong team. I can now at least make a break for it if it's clear that I won't be surviving long.
It's also a source of quick support now.
It's also a source of quick support now.
DeletedUser24285
Guest
I really don't see that there is anything broken here. A tough time to get conquest ready is an essential part of the game - I don't see that this is broke - it is the first major challenge and one that new players must totally commit to ( I remember farming every 5/15 mins to build up my city to attain conquest readiness). I t is not broken. please don't dumb the game down any further!
DeletedUser54495
Guest
Academy 13 and CS... so even before you get LS you can send a CS out? Lol
DeletedUser54192
Guest
Ummm..... am I the only one that doesn't always get LS before I send a CS out?
DeletedUser54702
Guest
Sounds like you guys are making a big issue out of nothing. Even if this change does come into place it only affects the early game.
And i personally dont like the "challenge" of farming every 5-15 minutes to get revolt ready. That is the most boring part of the early game in my opinion, and is at its heart just how fast can you sim out your buildings to get revolt and cs.
The challenge shouldn't be who can build the fastest, this change would allow you to fight sooner, and sim less.
Edit: I play a speed 4. Getting revolt ready on a speed 1 is enough to drive someone mad unless you have alot of gold to burn.
And i personally dont like the "challenge" of farming every 5-15 minutes to get revolt ready. That is the most boring part of the early game in my opinion, and is at its heart just how fast can you sim out your buildings to get revolt and cs.
The challenge shouldn't be who can build the fastest, this change would allow you to fight sooner, and sim less.
Edit: I play a speed 4. Getting revolt ready on a speed 1 is enough to drive someone mad unless you have alot of gold to burn.
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser54192
Guest
In my opinion, this could have a significant effect mid-game as well. Not everyone builds their harbours to level 20, but I think it is safe to say that most players will build their harbours to level 10 in every city except dedicated flier cities. Given that the CS research doesn't cost research points, there is no real reason not to research it if you have the right harbour level. With the lower required harbour level, it will be possible to send a CS from basically anywhere, and also a lot easier to send multiple CSs. While this is good for the attacker, it does make life a lot harder for the defender. If working out the closest CS time, you can usually assume that the small cities won't have CS capability. Now the enemy could have a CS almost anywhere.
I agree with you on this. I doubt the farming villages would ever be removed, but such short intervals makes it boring if you want to get any sort of efficient yield.
It should hopefully encourage more skirmishes to get the BP for more culture slots, as you can now expand more quickly. However unless they were to move the conquest research to a lower academy level, it would be about the same amount of time until the proper fights start, and possibly even longer, as a lot of players may choose to divert resources to their colonies rather than continuing to rush for revolt/conquest capability. The quicker growth should hopefully lead to better fighting once the fights do start, though.
Yep. I have played both, and trying to build up cities to that sort of level on a speed 1 world feels like I'm going in slow motion now that I have been playing on higher speed worlds.
DeletedUser24285
Guest
"And i personally dont like the "challenge" of farming every 5-15 minutes to get revolt ready. That is the most boring part of the early game in my opinion, and is at its heart just how fast can you sim out your buildings to get revolt and cs."
This comment is totally out of date - I did this 5 years aso, but now everyone uses gold in the early stages to avoid this - something we should have resisted a long time ago. If we make this early part of the game easier to attain conquest, the gold frenzy will just increase over the early part of the game in a desperate attempt to churn out a number of cities and get an edge. How about we accept theses changes but stop people using gold until they get to a certain pre-defined level?
This comment is totally out of date - I did this 5 years aso, but now everyone uses gold in the early stages to avoid this - something we should have resisted a long time ago. If we make this early part of the game easier to attain conquest, the gold frenzy will just increase over the early part of the game in a desperate attempt to churn out a number of cities and get an edge. How about we accept theses changes but stop people using gold until they get to a certain pre-defined level?
DeletedUser54702
Guest
Not everyone uses gold early game. Ill admit i use a fair amount of gold, but not early game. The early game is designed specifically by Inno to suck you out of both your gold and your money, and if you want to be a part of that, thats on you.
And it doesn't even give you that much of a long term edge either. I started several days late, and barely spent a drop of gold in early game and im in the top 30 about to hit top 20 on my main server. Gold gives you a boost but if you don't have the skill to back it up, its meaningless.
About your idea on stopping people from using gold until a reaching a certain level. I dont think it would ever happen. Early game is a huge cash cow.
DeletedUser54192
Guest
I agree with you on this. The ability to use gold right from the start is a big money-maker for Inno, allows the big spenders to get the noticeable differences in size, etc, compared with those who don't, etc. I'm not sure if I see things differently to others, but I actually think that banning gold-use in the early stages would change the prevalence of gold-trading. If you are lucky in terms of where you drop, you can make a lot of gold in the first couple of weeks, and after that it tapers off. This means that many gold-traders leave after the big rush. If there is no big rush, you'll see traders sticking around for longer to make the same amount of gold, and that could cause issues if there are still mid-sized trading alliances hovering around negotiating their way out of every fight while the rest of the world is looking for decent wars.
Anyways, back on topic: I think this development would change the gold use in the early game. If I was to spend money on gold, I'd act a different way after this change came out. For example, if you want to rush things at the moment, you will usually only get a couple of colonies (if that), then rush on to get to revolt/conquest capability. You're spending your gold on buildings and resources, primarily. With the changes, I'd say that we may see serious gold users rushing to the colonisation stage and then spending gold on Olympic Games to get lots of colonies. I don't know if it would increase or decrease gold use in the early stages, but it would certainly change how gold is spent there, and as such, it will change the growth pattern for gold-users.
I have an idea though, that would limit some of the mid-game and late-game abuse that is possible with this development: how about making this lower level an exceptional case for your first city only? I'm not sure exactly how it would work. It may be too difficult to make it work. But it would limit the changes to the same early game changes as intended, without majorly changing expansion strategies and tactics in the later stages.
Rachel.L
Phrourach
kal, it might be easier than you think if you look at the work in the "city gov't" thread
i stopped reading once it appeared only some players would have input
but last i saw the "capital" would have different settings than other cities
just something to check on but i'm probably wrong
i stopped reading once it appeared only some players would have input
but last i saw the "capital" would have different settings than other cities
just something to check on but i'm probably wrong