D.N. VS the world

Scullionus

Guest
So recently i've been speaking with a few of my old team mates about whats going on in world sigma, i'm in and out messing around here and there. We noted that D.N. is currently at war with a large quantity of different alliances, and still fighting strong. Me being me i decided to make a map of the current war to see how it looks, and (as pointed out by blackiris) it looks much like pacman.



Dn is black their enemies are yellow ;)
 

Mrs.Sativa

Guest
:D
Well I think if it wasn't for the merge between WoE and Dn.DN wouldn't have that many enemies.
I would have to say DN is a better fighting alliance we have came across.But it is just a matter of time when the pressure gets to them and they fall like WoE did

Their core ocean (45) is getting crowded with many alliances ;)

+rep nice map and subject
Here are the stats to the alliances I could find using grepostats that have taken cities from DN

Dn losses to -Black Watch-
http://www.grepostats.com/world/en18/alliance/16/colonizations?type=lose&enemy_alliance=43&min_points=&max_points=

DN losses to MightyBrutalWarSmashers
http://www.grepostats.com/world/en18/alliance/16/colonizations?type=lose&enemy_alliance=5094&min_points=&max_points=

DN losses to No Name
http://www.grepostats.com/world/en18/alliance/16/colonizations?type=lose&enemy_alliance=2823&min_points=&max_points=

DN losses to South East Syndicate
http://www.grepostats.com/world/en18/alliance/16/colonizations?type=lose&enemy_alliance=362&min_points=&max_points=

Dn losses to The Enlightened
http://www.grepostats.com/world/en18/alliance/16/colonizations?type=lose&enemy_alliance=1179&min_points=&max_points=
 
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Scullionus

Guest
lol well your checks are good but none the less DN is still fighting strong and their stats show a continual growth, every alliance loses cities even the best. D.N. happens to be the best alliance in sigma so far. I know what some people are going to say about diplomacy blah blah, but the fact is diplomacy only works so long as the people your being diplomatic with are going to stick with what they have worked out with one another. D.N. used diplomacy to their advantage and were doing very well. It's only through some backstabbing by The Enlightened that they now have such a large enemy on the north.

None the less i don't know that D.N. will fall or fail, there are still some possibilities that can be worked out, some diplomacy that can work in their favour. If only their leaders are smart enough to take the right action ;)
 

Mrs.Sativa

Guest
Why is MTP fighting D.N.?
Like I said above probably because WoE merged into them.But who knows

I will be putting up the stats from what the alliances have lost against DN but just dont have time today.I will put them up tomorrow.
If any one would like to be my guess:p
 

DerekRisen001

Strategos
Like I said above probably because WoE merged into them.But who knows
- MTP and WoE were pact brothers and never had any bad terms against one another. You may have to ask DN about that one. :p

And WoE never fell due to the amount of alliances we were fighting...I hate repeating myself. Lol....

We were running low on manpower and now that one of the strongest fighting alliances has joined up with another like itself and backed by a great group of active players as we were you can only imagine what will happen now. ;)
 

aman alvi

Guest
Gosh i m missing a lot... i would be so elastic too see when pressure is going to build up lol..

hearing this from first day after BP ends but some how people trying to put us in pressure suffer from stress so much, they disappear one by one.. may be in a month i will ask some one to write a pnp. how are u mrs. sigma D.
 

Dalmasio

Guest
- MTP and WoE were pact brothers and never had any bad terms against one another.
100 % Correct - Mad Tea Party - Metamorphosis - The Enlightened - Whatever you want to call us the truth is we never had any bad relations with WoE. Derek is actually one the nicest people on the server and therefore him and his alliance were always treated with the same level of respect he gave us. We were always straight up and direct with WoE as I trusted him completely even to the point where we would give each other info that could have harmed each others alliances if the the info go out. It never did - hence the relationship between out mutual alliances was solid.

It's only through some backstabbing by The Enlightened that they now have such a large enemy on the north.
Please clarify this point? For someone who is "in and out" of Sigma how did you come to this well thought out and balanced conclusion? I am assuming you have spoken to ALL parties concerned and then formulated you're own thought on the matter instead of simply regurgitating someone else's viewpoint?

The Enlightened is not the easiest alliance to get along with - however we treat all others with the same level of courtesy as we are treated with. Unless you can back up your statement of backstabbing with regards to an alliance that I know you've had no real dealings with I would suggest you say less, because you risk looking foolish by talking about matters you have no clue about.

Sclullinous - you may have seen a few messages - forwarded with a slight twist but in reality you are only privy to information that people want you to see and therefore with no offence meant - your view points on things can be rather manipulated as you will never be given the real picture. Therefore, making statements about an alliance's moral standing - which reflects upon it's leaders and members, one should be particularly careful as it is highly likely that the information you've been given is limited and very slanted.

Sure. it would be very easy to believe that The Enlightened are the bad guys who have no morals and care for no-one else but themselves - but the fact of the matter is that is untrue. We value pacts and hold them strongly - look at Black Watch - We've had many chances to turn on them but never have. We could have joined in the fight against WoE as we were also pacted with War Machine - but we remained neutral and actually tried to actively cease hostilities between both parties - which is something DerekRisen can atest to ( - however dealing with the old leader of War Machine proved to be slow as he always stalled for time). Sadly for many people who like to believe otherwise - we are not actually a bad alliance and are pretty fair in how we deal with things.

So backstabbing? Nope The Enlightened did not do that I'm afraid.


Fact of the matter is - DN is fighting as many alliances as they are simply down to one reason and one reason only. Sure you can go looking for reasons and scapegoats but at the end of the day - DN is fighting the "world" because of their leaders and it's no-one else's fault.

It's not heroic fighting so many alliances and nor is it skilful - many would say it verges on quite sad - all it indicates is that DN players have far too much time on their hands and should go out a bit more, stop wasting all their lives trying to protect 2D cities and enjoy the sun. Regardless of what the Twilight Tweenies may think - looking like a Vampire isn't going help you meet that 'special' someone, make you happy nor improve your life.

So - in closing for DN to win against all the alliances that they are fighting against- you'll find they will lose soo much more in RL by doing so.

One of the reasons people don't like to fight too many enemies is because they enjoy RL too much and this is game, a hobby and sadly no matter how many cities you have in Grep - you're still the same guy/gal that will look back one day and wonder if it was worth staying up those extra hours to defend that city rather then go outside and shoot some pool with your buddies.

So before this thread evolves into a "DN is awesome because we're taking cities and still fighting sooo many people" - think about it long and hard and then ask yourself - when all the years pass and you look back on your life - was it really worth pouring all those hours just to be able to post "We're still going strong" If you do then I think that is a little be sad because life has far more to offer.

I hope you all read this with the kindness and sincerity it was meant with - seriously though - if you're reading this - and you're wondering whether to log off Grep or not - just do it - go out, see your friends, act stupid, get into trouble and down a few (for those of a legal age) because if you lose a city or two sure it might sting a bit - but the memories of a fun, wild night - those bad boys will make you smile for much longer :)
 

Scullionus

Guest
well i'm led to believe you backstabbed them as you were pacted for a long time before TE changed that, dropped the pact and begun attacking DN alongside BW, who though as you say i don't know anything i would believe are a Brother/academy alliance for TE. Your so intermingled with them you might aswell be.

But of course your right i don't know both sides of the story so why don't you "Enlighten" us ;)
 

mwilliams11

Guest
Yeah I would say your a little more than in and out of grepo:)
 

Rrothorn

Guest
Normally i refrain from forums like this, i perhaps read this forum once every month and i doubt it has many followers. Never did i feel the urge to reply to anyone, even when feeling certain giggles bubbling up.

But you Dalmasio made me laugh out loud! An impressive essay (where did you find the time between your GTL i wonder!!) coming from a guy with 50 cities and obviously no life himself.

Anyone can see you are just trying to propaganda demoralise all of DN so you can win Sigma yourself! Proof me wrong, oh wait no i am not interested, talk to the hand GF!
 

Scullionus

Guest
Yeah I would say your a little more than in and out of grepo:)
well yes thanks to your entertaining ways i have returned, the pirates rise again :p

Thanks for the BP by the way, shame your CS was so bad, i fought clive had trained his team better ;)
 

HellyBelly

Guest
Nice stats post Mrs Sativa, but you failed to post DN gains...

http://www.grepostats.com/world/en18/alliance/16/colonizations?page=0

Every page basically looks the same, 2 losses and 8-10 gains against enemy alliances. Not too bad for fighting on all sides.


I'd just like to clarify that most of the 'losses' to BW/TE were before the pacts were dropped and were city handovers related to mutual agreements.

The war started sometime around Sept 4th or 5th (based on when Firinue started taking abandoned cities in 45), anything before that doesn't count to either side.
 
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hamster360

Guest
Actually the real reason why we (DN) are at war with both BW and TE is because they disregarded our agreement. In the early stages of Sigma, I was the diplomat of DN, and I set up a NAP with both BW and TE. We also agreed with both alliances that we would not conquer into each others oceans. BW and TE both continually conquered into O45. After 4-7 days, we would take the city from them in the form of a hand off. It took this long, because both dalmassio and starcharlie do not like to open or reply to mails form DN. So by the time they read our mail, mailed their player, then mailed us, it took quite a bit of time for hand offs to be arranged. Finally, we recruited a few Border Marauder players in O44, with the understanding that they would have to give up their cities in 44. they agreed, and when they joined us, they listed all of their cities in O44 for sale. This is was not good enough for Dalmassio, so he dropped the pact with us. 4 of our leaders messaged starcharlie about the incident, but we never got a response.

Dalmassio dropped the pact with DN. They took cities in our ocean. We did not start this war.

As far as BW goes. They usually had 15-25 cities in our ocean. Finaly after months of arguing, we said "if your alliance takes another city in our ocean, we will take them ALL back by force" After they took 5 or more cities in our ocean, we started taking cities back.

I would love to point out how many cities DN has in O44 (5) vs TE (8) and BW (30) cities in O45. I think it is pretty clear we are not trying to move into O44, and are merely protecting our own territory.

I think peace between DN and TE/BW is possible, and would make a lot of sense for all alliances, but I do not see TE or BW stepping up and admitting they they broke our agreement and that this "war" was started by them.
 

Dalmasio

Guest
Actually the real reason why we (DN) are at war with both BW and TE is because they disregarded our agreement.
Wrong - we did not disregard the agreement with D.N. Sorry but you're wrong Hamster. The agreement between our alliances was set-up between me and yourself personally, so for that all is well. However, we did not disregard any disagreement at all - fact of the matter is you guys took on refugees in o44. If D.N. valued the pact between our alliances you would not have taken them on. Any alliance with good leadership would have felt the same way as we did.

In the early stages of Sigma, I was the diplomat of DN, and I set up a NAP with both BW and TE. We also agreed with both alliances that we would not conquer into each others oceans.
This remained true - any cities taken in eat others oceans was dealt with so this was not the reason the pact was dropped.

BW and TE both continually conquered into O45. After 4-7 days, we would take the city from them in the form of a hand off.
Sorry but once again you are being misleading - 'continually' implies consistently and looking at the total duration of the pact between our compared to the number of cities taken in each others ocean during the duration of the pact - the term 'continually' can obviously be seen to be used 'creatively' to say the least. Trying to twist the color of events of the past into shades the present sadly will not work here I'm afraid. The benefit of of being the diplomat of an alliance is that I am surprisingly made aware of the situations that take place. Therefore, once again I feel I have to correct you on this matter - we did not 'continually' take cities in o45 and those that were taken were handed over.

It took this long, because both dalmassio and starcharlie do not like to open or reply to mails form DN. So by the time they read our mail, mailed their player, then mailed us, it took quite a bit of time for hand offs to be arranged.

Finally, we recruited a few Border Marauder players in O44, with the understanding that they would have to give up their cities in 44. they agreed, and when they joined us, they listed all of their cities in O44 for sale.
Agreed - I did not always open mail from DN diplomats as by this time diplomacy reached a low point. Why? Well after D.N recruited members of an alliance we were fighting in 044 (an ocean DN had no part in) they refused to hand over all 044 cities within 48 hours. 48 hours is not a lot of time to relinquish some 60 cities - however D.N recruited in o44 and therefore I believe that the moral high ground was not theirs to dictate. After they refused, and after further more condescending messages from their 'top' diplomats I decided not to bother spending too much time reading and replying to their messages as nothing was going to come if it.

The final straw came after Jomango flatly refused to pass on the attack reports I sent him regarding the players we regarded as refugess (after he requested them) to the D.N. leaders unless - to put it bluntly I kissed his proverbial. As I'm not that way inclined I decided t would not be in my alliances interest to continue talking to Jomango any further If anyone doubts this - I still have the messages archived to it's not an issue to give them out or post them.

This is was not good enough for Dalmassio, so he dropped the pact with us. 4 of our leaders messaged starcharlie about the incident, but we never got a response.
Sorry - but if you objectively go through the messages sent you'll find the messages you send to StarCharlie and myself were not really conducive to a long standing relationship.

Dalmassio dropped the pact with DN. They took cities in our ocean. We did not start this war.
I never once said you started the war - however taking on refugees, then refusing to acknowledge the players as refugees even after you received the reports that your own diplomats requested does not go a long way to show how you valued the pact between our alliances.

As far as BW goes. They usually had 15-25 cities in our ocean. Finaly after months of arguing, we said "if your alliance takes another city in our ocean, we will take them ALL back by force" After they took 5 or more cities in our ocean, we started taking cities back.
I forget did you declare war before or after you messaged Black Watch to join D.N. to fight The Enlightened? Swiftly, followed by your leadership Mass Mailing all of Black Watch attempting to blame the war on Black Watch leadership.

I would love to point out how many cities DN has in O44 (5) vs TE (8) and BW (30) cities in O45. I think it is pretty clear we are not trying to move into O44, and are merely protecting our own territory.
I think peace between DN and TE/BW is possible, and would make a lot of sense for all alliances, but I do not see TE or BW stepping up and admitting they they broke our agreement and that this "war" was started by them.
Personally I care less who had started this war - I prefer to look at the reasons behind how it started instead and as you can see I am more than happy clarify any 'confusion' your posts may have caused for those who are not fully aware of the situation.

At the end of the day - those that know how the war was started are aware of it, those that care will be bothered to find out and those that don't know simply are not bothered.
 
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HellyBelly

Guest
I'd just like to point out that Jomango is a leader and founder of DN, funnily enough you didn't (and apparently still don't) think he was 'high enough up' to speak to...
 

Dalmasio

Guest
I'd just like to point out that Jomango is a leader and founder of DN, funnily enough you didn't (and apparently still don't) think he was 'high enough up' to speak to...
At what point in any of the messages was it made clear that he was a founder? As I am not all-knowing I did not know, simple. With regards to him not being "not high enough to speak to" yeah, you're correct. But as I was unaware he was not a founder and I just figured he was an uncooperative diplo - my bad :)

However, if the founder of your own alliance refuses to acknowledge players as refugees then I have no idea where the problem is with regards to us dropping the pact I think you will find on all worlds the refugee policy is consistent and any other alliance would do the same.

As it all comes out - we see that The Enlightened did not back-stab anyone.
 
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