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two quick things
1. don't turn this into a pro-life pro-choice debate please. PLEASE!
2. For the love of God stop relying on the editted material. I could edit the Man of Steel to make it appear that superman is the villian who wiped out two whole planets, killed his parents, Batman's parents, and Batman.
 

Joseph Nieves

Phrourach
two quick things
1. don't turn this into a pro-life pro-choice debate please. PLEASE!
2. For the love of God stop relying on the editted material. I could edit the Man of Steel to make it appear that superman is the villian who wiped out two whole planets, killed his parents, Batman's parents, and Batman.
I didn't rely on it, or I won't anymore until I watch the 3 hour. I waited for a few minutes of the same conversation to go on before I even considered it as accurate. They literally spent 2-3 minutes talking about attorneys being able to cover anything up and that it was completely safe to buy organs and ship them to other states. That is something that even in the full video would look bad, it wasn't just one phrase out of context it was a back and forth conversation flowing about it. Edited or not they said that, it being edited doesn't change the facts that they have a lot of faith in their lawyers and that the doctor and medical assistant laugh and joke around over what they consider to be a baby boy.

As for #1 sorry mate but when the executioners say something like that it just has to be noted. Especially Dr. Ginde, she is high in the chain of command for that abortion clinic. Ok I will stop messing with you and let you know all the horrors and baby guts I see in the 3 hour video :p
 
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I didn't rely on it, or I won't anymore until I watch the 3 hour.
So did you or didn't you. Make up your mind God damn it :p

Look I haven't seen the fourth video cause frankly I was done with this bs after the second video. With that in mind if you want to discover the truth, try and disprove your point of view. Seriously, go online and try with all your effort to prove yourself dead wrong.

“We’d have to do a little bit of training with the providers or something to make sure that they don’t crush” fetal organs during 2nd trimester abortions, says Ginde, brainstorming ways to ensure the abortion doctors at PPRM provide usable fetal organs.
Take a moment and pretend that we are talking about someone donating their organs after their death in this quote. Now does what is being said sound a bit less cynical? You'll find organs are far more useful to science not crushed lol. You may also find that it cost $30-100 to make sure they are shipped not crushed and intact.

Selling or donating this tissue (i understand it's more than tissue but im lazy let it go) always goes to research that saves lives. I don't believe they are selling this stuff but it's not like it's being transplanted to keep Donald Trump alive if it was being sold. I doubt there are actual numbers for this (I'll have skully get on it) but I'd be willing to wager that by donating this tissue thousands of lives are saved. Which is better than the alertnative of everybody losing.

I'm pro-life too, I'm simply saying those beliefs are not related to this debate.
Also give them credit they would be paid assassins techincally.
 
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Joseph Nieves

Phrourach
So did you or didn't you. Make up your mind God damn it :p

Look I haven't seen the fourth video cause frankly I was done with this bs after the second video. With that in mind if you want to discover the truth, try and disprove your point of view. Seriously, go online and try with all your effort to prove yourself dead wrong.
I can't make up my mind, deal with it :p I tried to but then I see the bias in those articles is equally as strong so really it cancels out the opinions I read and leaves me left with just my opinion. Which being pro-life and not liking Planned Parenthood before this it comes as no surprise that they do this. Now is it wrong or not, I don't think that question is really important. The point is it's illegal and a company that receives so much federal funding should be especially careful to comply with the laws in place. Also that thing about the organ transplant is different. One has consent and the other doesn't. Yes their is parental consent but no parent can no what is best/wanted by the baby. It is easy to give away something that isn't yours.

With that said I will be watching the video now for sure...actually I won't as it seems there is 7 hours in total over 3 full length videos. Sorry but that would waste the rest of my day if I watched all that. Will try to watch the shortest full length one which is a little over an hour but the ones that are nearly 3 hours I can't watch.
 
I can't make up my mind, deal with it :p I tried to but then I see the bias in those articles is equally as strong so really it cancels out the opinions I read and leaves me left with just my opinion. Which being pro-life and not liking Planned Parenthood before this it comes as no surprise that they do this.
Yeah but it's not like abortion is all planned parenthood does. Also they can't use federal funding to fund the abortion part of their business. Although it wouldn't hurt to double check and make sure they aren't doing that lol.

Now is it wrong or not, I don't think that question is really important. The point is it's illegal and a company that receives so much federal funding should be especially careful to comply with the laws in place.
The crime is illegal but neither of us can prove them guilty or innocent currently. Also in terms of things the federal government funds planned parenthood isn't getting that much. Not to mention that even if they are doing illegal activities, this still won't be the worst thing the federal government has given money to.

Also that thing about the organ transplant is different. One has consent and the other doesn't. Yes their is parental consent but no parent can no what is best/wanted by the baby. It is easy to give away something that isn't yours.
ok so quick question. Would you be ok with planned parenthood donating the tissue? There is a chance they might be selling but we already know as a fact they are donating to science.
 

Sirloin

Strategos
Also that thing about the organ transplant is different. One has consent and the other doesn't. Yes their is parental consent but no parent can no what is best/wanted by the baby. It is easy to give away something that isn't yours.
Is it really different? Surely all organ transplants require consent, and this aborted fetus donation also requires consent.

Is it not also commonplace for next of kin to make that decision at or around the point of death?

I would be extremely surprised indeed if an aborted fetus had any concern at all, let alone wants, about what happens to it (physically) after it is aborted. It has no cultural or religious issues since it has experienced neither, and it would effectively be dead. I really cannot imagine it is lying there thinking, "do I want to be buried or incinerated or chopped up and used for transplants and research? I wonder which would be best for me."
 
Is it really different? Surely all organ transplants require consent, and this aborted fetus donation also requires consent.

Is it not also commonplace for next of kin to make that decision at or around the point of death?
I of course have not checked this but I'm pretty sure parents get to decide up until whenever you get a drivers licenses. Which is pretty damn creepy if you think about it.

I would be extremely surprised indeed if an aborted fetus had any concern at all, let alone wants, about what happens to it (physically) after it is aborted. It has no cultural or religious issues since it has experienced neither, and it would effectively be dead. I really cannot imagine it is lying there thinking, "do I want to be buried or incinerated or chopped up and used for transplants and research? I wonder which would be best for me."
this was a longer way of saying" i'd be surprised if souls exist" lol. Seriously, shorter paragraphs please :p. Also i prefer the argue of "it's either science studies it or it goes in the trash".
 

Sirloin

Strategos
I of course have not checked this but I'm pretty sure parents get to decide up until whenever you get a drivers licenses. Which is pretty damn creepy if you think about it.

this was a longer way of saying" i'd be surprised if souls exist" lol. Seriously, shorter paragraphs please :p. Also i prefer the argue of "it's either science studies it or it goes in the trash".
It was 4 lines....even you have written longer paragraphs in this discussion :p

If you read it again you will also notice (I hope) that it specifically does not mean "I would be surprised if souls exist" as I make it very clear that I am referring to what happens to its physical body. Specifically and intentionally not saying either way whether it has an opinion about any other facet of being that it may or may not possess.

Both in the UK and the US it is common for next of kin to be asked to make the decision whether organs etc may be taken for transplant from accident victims who are either dead or close to death and unable to communicate. In 2011 around 42% of adults in USA were registered as donors. For the rest, their next of kin would make the decision. I actually don't think its creepy at all.

I also don't think its creepy that parents have the right and responsibility to make medical decisions for their children. Sometimes the state will step in if a decision is considered unreasonable by a judge, but face the fact that whoever makes the decision it is very unlikely to be a child. I would much rather my parents or NoK decided, as I know they care about what I would want, rather than some professional who knows and cares more about budgets and politics than they do about me.
 
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It was 4 lines....even you have written longer paragraphs in this discussion :p

If you read it again you will also notice (I hope) that it specifically does not mean "I would be surprised if souls exist" as I make it very clear that I am referring to what happens to its physical body. Specifically and intentionally not saying either way whether it has an opinion about any other facet of being that it may or may not possess.
I could debate against this but honestly I doubt either of us cares lol.

Both in the UK and the US it is common for next of kin to be asked to make the decision whether organs etc may be taken for transplant from accident victims who are either dead or close to death and unable to communicate. In 2011 around 42% of adults in USA were registered as donors. For the rest, their next of kin would make the decision. I actually don't think its creepy at all.
The creepy part was the "they have you decide if you want to donate your organs when you get a drivers license" thing that I suppose I just made up lol.
 

Tangy Tom

Guest
I personally voted against it. Not on principal but on the back of my belief in the slack jawed politicians. Now it's here I'm calm and confident that once we know the new rules we shall do well and prosper,more than can be said for the EU in general which has been a slowly decaying dream for decades now! Rule Britannia,friendly,happy and calm.
 

Skullyhoofd

Guest
I'm just happy that it turned out this way after brexit passed. It's fun to see the sinking ship that is the uk burn, lit with their own gunpowder. Only hope they're actually out soon so they don't take other into the abyss they're falling into.
 

Zero Point

Phrourach
For those who voted into the EU in the 70 we voted into a trade union, not a political union that was introduced by stealth not democracy.

The map of how the uk voted shows that working class and middle class areas voted out, very affluent areas voted in. Business and political classes love the EU as it gives them more power and money. The working and middle class though are under no illusions, wages have been stifled services have been strained and the gap between rich and poor in the uk is at an all time high.

Changes to the EU could of prevented Brexit but those requested changes were point blank refused. if they had been excepted i feel the majority would have voted to stay. I certainly would have voted differently.

Briton has cut ties with and undemocratic, failing, political behemoth. we have not cut ties with our friends, allies and neighbors in Europe.
 

ajayspocket

Chiliarch
Being part of a former British colony .

I love to see how most british couldnt stand following rules of a greater union and the remaining Brits convincing the world that they cant survive without EU

Such Irony :D
 

Skullyhoofd

Guest
For those who voted into the EU in the 70 we voted into a trade union, not a political union that was introduced by stealth not democracy.

The map of how the uk voted shows that working class and middle class areas voted out, very affluent areas voted in. Business and political classes love the EU as it gives them more power and money. The working and middle class though are under no illusions, wages have been stifled services have been strained and the gap between rich and poor in the uk is at an all time high.

Changes to the EU could of prevented Brexit but those requested changes were point blank refused. if they had been excepted i feel the majority would have voted to stay. I certainly would have voted differently.

Briton has cut ties with and undemocratic, failing, political behemoth. we have not cut ties with our friends, allies and neighbors in Europe.
The brexit propaganda has been wildly successful, kudos to them. L̶u̶c̶k̶i̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶t̶r̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶f̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶u̶l̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶e̶a̶s̶e̶d̶.̶ All these problems they mentioned will not be solved by leaving the EU. Many other member states do not face these issues so the problem lies within the UK, not the EU. The EU is overly complicated and I honestly don't think anyone here fully understands it, but to say it's not democratic at all is insane. For real, all my props to the bexit campaign. It's like saying the UK isn't democratic because the general population doesn't get to vote on very individual law. Representatives are appointed, which aren't chosen randomly lol. I'm sure that all the people who say this are also the people who vote in the european elections, they are definitely not the reason turnout for those elections is abysmal! I genuinely feel sorry for the people buying into the propaganda that all the UK's issues will be solved now.

I'd also argue that the difference isn't as much about class as it is about age and education. The younger generation and more educated people voted to stay. Maybe I'm biased (probably) but these are the people I trust more with the future as they have a basic understanding of things and have to live with it, not the old and uneducated or the pauper UKIP voters.

Anyways it's all pointless now, the poll is closed. We'll just see what will happen. For now it's been going as I had expected, terribly :D
 
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pagodaswan

Phrourach
I voted out of EU

Having been alive when we entered the Common Market which was exactly that...a marketplace for inter European trade....over the years it has become a political animal of white elephant proportions

All we have done is reclaim our individuality and ability to self govern...that means we no longer have to ask permission from faceless red tapers in offices hundreds of miles away to blow our own noses

The fact that now we have decided enough is enough and used our voices to tell the EU fatcats what we think, the other countries are now finding their voices and fair play to them

The Common Market/EU experiment has failed abysmally...time to disband it cos its past the point of no return for any reformation
 

Tangy Tom

Guest
I fail to see in what way everything is going terribly? A lot of boring men in grey suits posturing for cameras and the media trying to pretend they are in charge means anything has changed. The markets went down but are recovering,uncertainty will stifle the economy until everything is set onto paper and the Sturgeon will try and pretend she has any influence outside her local chipshop, but to the rest of us educated or not life will go on with most people just bored stupid with people telling us the sky is falling in. The British will just get on with life and drink tea with proper biscuits!
 

Zero Point

Phrourach
The brexit propaganda has been wildly successful, kudos to them. L̶u̶c̶k̶i̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶t̶r̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶f̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶u̶l̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶e̶a̶s̶e̶d̶.̶ All these problems they mentioned will not be solved by leaving the EU. Many other member states do not face these issues so the problem lies within the UK, not the EU. The EU is overly complicated and I honestly don't think anyone here fully understands it, but to say it's not democratic at all is insane. For real, all my props to the bexit campaign. It's like saying the UK isn't democratic because the general population doesn't get to vote on very individual law. Representatives are appointed, which aren't chosen randomly lol. I'm sure that all the people who say this are also the people who vote in the european elections, they are definitely not the reason turnout for those elections is abysmal! I genuinely feel sorry for the people buying into the propaganda that all the UK's issues will be solved now.

I'd also argue that the difference isn't as much about class as it is about age and education. The younger generation and more educated people voted to stay. Maybe I'm biased (probably) but these are the people I trust more with the future as they have a basic understanding of things and have to live with it, not the old and uneducated or the pauper UKIP voters.

Anyways it's all pointless now, the poll is closed. We'll just see what will happen. For now it's been going as I had expected, terribly :D
Lol some fantastic generalizations there
52% of the population voted to leave and to believe you they are quote old and uneducated or the pauper UKIP voters
just a side note Ukip only managed to get one mp elected in the general election

as for leaving the EU being a magic pill to solve all evils that is demeaning to the millions that voted leave No leaving the EU is a step in the right direction IMO

ultimately this is all speculation time will tell as they say

my Guess is that with the EUs massive bureaucracy issues and mass unemployment in the med and the uk being the 5th biggest economy with a proven resilient track record that the out voters will be proven insightful and correct in due course