Dangers to health?

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DeletedUser6156

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The question of this debate is "Is there enough warning about the dangers to health of habits like smoking, excessive drinking (alcohol) and overeating?"

Its not very hard to find a news story about how alcohol, smoking or overeating can affect our health but is enough done to promote these dangers or has it gone too far.
Almost always there is an advert on the tv about the risks associated with smoking and telling people to quit but has it gone too far. People have to be allowed to make decisions for themselves and do advertisements and news stories about the health risks associated actually change any one's opinion.
Should we be aware of all of the facts or is there some truth in the statement "ignorance is bliss"?
 

DeletedUser

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No, ignorance is not bliss when it comes to your health.

People need to know that by smoking or drinking a lot of alcohol or taking certain (but not all) drugs, they are damaging their bodies... Sometimes in ways that cannot be undone.

The issue with things like cigarettes is that they are addictive. People start and then, if they have an addictive nature, they can't stop. There is a direct link between smoking and lung cancer. 4/5 lung cancers are caused by smoking cigarettes.


The issue IMO is that government profits too much from cigarettes, it isn't in their interests to harm the sales. 80% of the price of a packets of cigarettes in the UK is tax.


People are still allowed a choice, the adverts are simply there to show what happens if they choose to smoke. Government hasn't taken away this choice, the only way to do that would be to make cigarettes un available. Currently all that they are doing is highlighting the risks associated so that when people get ill, they have no-one to blame but themselves.
 

DeletedUser

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But that money goes into hundreds of lung operations, cancer treatment, and medical care. I doubt they make much money at all, if any.
 

DeletedUser6029

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The question of this debate is "Is there enough warning about the dangers to health of habits like smoking, excessive drinking (alcohol) and overeating?"

I think there is plenty for smoking and overeating. Not so much regarding Alcohol. The thing that bugs me about the smoking / overeating thing is the double standard of it all. Now understand I am an ex smoker. I have been smoke free officially, no cheats since December 13th.

Smoking, the government forces you to abide by the "health guidelines"...
  • Can't smoke in buildings
  • can't smoke in some public parks
  • You are taxed out the wazoo...I mean reDQlously so.
Yet, you try and do something similar to the overeating (IE: New York) and everyone goes ballistic and all defensive. Maybe if it was a financial windfall that tobacco is, there'd be more restrictions on obesity, and less concern about "personal liberties"

As to Alcohol, I lump that in with drugs as a whole, since it alters your reality, even briefly. (I know a snarky smurf it effects ;)) And I don't think they have enough out there about drug abuse and prevention.
 

DeletedUser

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But that money goes into hundreds of lung operations, cancer treatment, and medical care. I doubt they make much money at all, if any.

It is a well known fact that the UK government spends far less on treating things caused by smoking then it makes from taxing it.
It is a good money maker.
 

DeletedUser6029

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Totter baby ~
I noticed you like EVERYONE ELSE totally didn't even put any emphesis on obesity...despite the fact that, THEY cost the medical system quite a bit, probably more than alcoholism does....
 

DeletedUser

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Ay, that is very true.
There are no adverts up saying how eating McDonalds is bad for you... McDonalds are not being forced to have stores that have no logos/advertising in them (like cigarette packets).

Have you seen 'Supersize me"? An average weight guy eats nothing but mcdonalds for 1 month. breakfast, lunch and dinner. He did it to highlight the dangers of eating fast food because it was clear to him that nothing was being done about it by the american government.
 

DeletedUser

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It is a well known fact that the UK government spends far less on treating things caused by smoking then it makes from taxing it.
It is a good money maker.

I dont live in the UK sorry, so i have no idea what the figures are.
 

DeletedUser

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Im not in the US either..... But my point is that the money goes into the health care system, and i dont know aobut you, but im pretty sure all healthcare systems the world over lose money, not gain any.
 

DeletedUser

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I would like to add one thing here that really ticks me off. People banning smoking in bars. I stay outside the city limits so I enjoy smoking in one of the very few bars left, (and I've been in all over the country) that I can actually still do so.

Are people really going to bars to be healthy? Are people forced to work in bars? Or is it that people are so anti smoking they won't even go into bars unless it's smoke free. I'm sorry but I feel like a _ going outside for a cig in the cold when I'm out drinking at the bar.

I've come to terms with the fact that I'm a smoker and a drinker and I'm not going to quit. There are far worse things I could do to my own body and even if I did them "WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?" I pay into my medical coverage and trust me the extra fees for smokers averaged out over a lifetime are no where near as much as it would cost my insurance if I actually got cancer. And even if I lose the last ten years of my life I could really care less.
 

DeletedUser

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I am at a complete disagreement. This whole debate strikes me as ridiculous (no offense to smokers or drinkers). Smoking and drinking cause thousands of deaths. It's known. It's acknowledged by many. Ignorance is almost never bliss, especially here. Smoking doesn't just effect you, it effects those around you. As does drinking. How would you feel if you got in your car and the next thing you knew BAM you just killed two people in a car accident. Granted, it's not necessarily drinking that's the problem, it's the responsibilities involved. It's called moderation.

Now I know, some people have been smoking forever and its not easy to quit, same with drinking.
 

DeletedUser

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I am at a complete disagreement. This whole debate strikes me as ridiculous (no offense to smokers or drinkers). Smoking and drinking cause thousands of deaths. It's known. It's acknowledged by many. Ignorance is almost never bliss, especially here. Smoking doesn't just effect you, it effects those around you. As does drinking. How would you feel if you got in your car and the next thing you knew BAM you just killed two people in a car accident. Granted, it's not necessarily drinking that's the problem, it's the responsibilities involved. It's called moderation.

Now I know, some people have been smoking forever and its not easy to quit, same with drinking.

So by your logic people can't be trusted to practice responsibility and moderation so we need to take away their rights? Or is your argument that people don't know that smoking and drinking kills?

Also, no one is forced to go to a bar where smoking is allowed. People used to be forced to have to work and fly and wait for the bus with smokers on their way to watch a movie with smokers and I get that it's not fair. But the bars? No one forced your health conscious vegetarian self to go to a dive bar. Go hang out at the gym or something.

Edit: oh and here's a solution. Allow owners to establish a non smoking bar or a smoking bar. Hey, let's give them some incentive and give them a tax break for establishing a non smoking bar. OH but that won't work because then all the smokers would go to their bars leaving all the non smokers hanging out with themselves and they wouldn't feel like they are as superior as they thought they were when they forced everybody to conform to their mode of life :rolleyes:
 
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DeletedUser6029

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I am at a complete disagreement. This whole debate strikes me as ridiculous (no offense to smokers or drinkers). Smoking and drinking cause thousands of deaths. It's known. It's acknowledged by many. Ignorance is almost never bliss, especially here. Smoking doesn't just effect you, it effects those around you. As does drinking. How would you feel if you got in your car and the next thing you knew BAM you just killed two people in a car accident. Granted, it's not necessarily drinking that's the problem, it's the responsibilities involved. It's called moderation.

Now I know, some people have been smoking forever and its not easy to quit, same with drinking.
And again, you like everyone else left out obesity!
 

DeletedUser

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Actually, yes. It's hard for people to moderate. And yes I'm sure most people know smoking and drinking kills.

If you saw someone starving themselves, wouldn't you think that was wrong and/or be concerned for them? If not that's a bit sad..but anyways this is just about the same thing.

Oh and if you had a pure smoking bar, let's say it's quite popular, and you get about 20 or so people smoking at the same time, that's close to as bad as a fire..
 
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DeletedUser

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Actually, yes. It's hard for people to moderate. And yes I'm sure most people know smoking and drinking kills.

If you saw someone starving themselves, wouldn't you think that was wrong and/or be concerned for them? If not that's a bit sad..but anyways this is just about the same thing.

Oh and if you had a pure smoking bar, let's say it's quite popular, and you get about 20 or so people smoking at the same time, that's close to as bad as a fire..

So? I see 20 people smoking at bars all the time. I'm drawing the line there bro. If you don't want to go to a smoking bar that's fine start a non smoking bar. Don't pass legislation because you think people would be better off and you know better than they do. If you are so concerned for peoples health and feel like people just need someone that knows better than they do to step in and tell them what to do I don't even know what to say to you.... So angry right now
 

DeletedUser

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I never said I knew any better! I should think that people should hold concern in other people's matters such as smoking and drinking. Some may not like being bother, the 'it's my life and body' defense. I'm simply stating that there are consequences involved here and that it's in some ways 'concerning'. Of course don't have to agree, these are just my opinions. (Yes, I'm sure people already know about the dangers)

Okay I'll draw my line here. I think smoking and (to a degree) drinking is dangerous and not worth it. But I respect people's right and they can smoke/drink as much as they want. (I apologize for offering you and possibly others)
 
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DeletedUser6029

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well you know how big Texas is on civil liberties :D
Where I live they have tried to pass that ordinance about no smoking in public buildings....It has failed the last 6 times by a landslide.
People don't figure the government has the right to tell them how to run their business.

Personally, my pet peeve are obese people. I have flown a lot the last few years, and sitting next to them is obnoxious. Why doesn't the government put a weight limit on flying, or trains, or buses...? Obesity is enabled.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Sorry Shadis I went and had a cig and cracked a beer. I'm all better now. I don't necessarily think it's good to smoke and drink and don't think it needs to be glorified. I'm just tired of people telling me what they think I ought to do and if it bothers you so much GO SOMEWHERE ELSE and take a pill of MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS

Hey dom how much you want to bet we live in the same city?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I would like to add one thing here that really ticks me off. People banning smoking in bars. I stay outside the city limits so I enjoy smoking in one of the very few bars left, (and I've been in all over the country) that I can actually still do so.

Are people really going to bars to be healthy? Are people forced to work in bars? Or is it that people are so anti smoking they won't even go into bars unless it's smoke free. I'm sorry but I feel like a _ going outside for a cig in the cold when I'm out drinking at the bar.

I've come to terms with the fact that I'm a smoker and a drinker and I'm not going to quit. There are far worse things I could do to my own body and even if I did them "WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?" I pay into my medical coverage and trust me the extra fees for smokers averaged out over a lifetime are no where near as much as it would cost my insurance if I actually got cancer. And even if I lose the last ten years of my life I could really care less.

I understand your predicament mate. However second hand smoke is extremely toxic, and is worse for you than actually smoking. Smoking in an enclosed building with (I assume) quite a large amount of people in a small space, magnifies the second hand smoke effect, as your smoking effects more people than just you.

Also as a non-smoker, i find the smell of smoke quite revolting (sorry if this offends you) and as more and more people are giving up smoking, (or it is becoming less wide-spread) bar owners and government want to create laws for the majority.
Since a lot of people are revolted my cigarette smoke= Ban smoking so you get more customers.

To summarise, I could not care less if you smoked outside, or inside, or right in-front of my face, as long as your smoking didn't effect me, or produce such a horrible stench.

(PS: I know there are some nifty new electric cigarettes out which give you the nicotine hit without any smoke effect or smell, i think they are a GREAT idea and should replace regular cigarettes as much as possible.)
 
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