Discussion #3: stats

czar666

Mr.Kappa
The forums seem to quiet since some peace was made out in my PnP thread. Then people have been generous to make me Mr. Kappa that i thought I'll contribute more to the forum. I am continuing on sploggo's initiative after he seems to be MIA.

So... how much do stats matter? Here, I am not talking about just points, but BPs as well.

Just to begin the discussion:

1. Points: a lot of talk has happened about this. I believe the number of cities matter more than points. You don't need a level 25 wall in cities surrounded by blue and green cities, you don't need a level 30 barracks in LS nuke cities etc. But then, a 2000 point city is pretty much useless.

2. ABP: This is 1 contentious issue, I have seen a few players brag and talk about ABP. Can you become a good attacker/conquerer without having a top ABP rank? Can a top ABP ranker be bad at gameplay?

3. DBP: Too much DBP is good or bad?

Please try to avoid to make this thread bitter and let us just have a general discussion and try to reach a consensus on how much do stats matter without ridiculing each other.

To phoenix: This thread might not relate to kappa, but you know no one looks at threads when they are moved to general discussion sub forum. Then, I expect people to pitch in with examples of kappa which players who play with/against them will better understand that players outside.

Lastly, I hope there is some response in the thread so its not that the threads involved in personal attacks on players/alliances that are the only popular ones.
 

Cauthonus

Guest
I think ABP is a good indicator of the player's involvement in the game, but I rather hate ABP junkies that build LS nukes in all their cities and bombard the other players to dust, little skill involved (I think many will know who I am talking about ;) )
 

KingOfTheBurbs

Guest
I think total pts is misleading.....some players like to build 13716 point cities which there isnt anything wrong with that. You can build faster and provides versatility. Downside is that your nukes are smaller. Some players like smaller cities, RS44 keeps his cities around 9500 for larger nukes. I think total cities is more important.

I happen to like ABP. I think it shows aggressive play. I use sekeriadis as an example, he has a lot of ABP. Some of us here may think he just launches thousands of LS at a target, in reality he takes the most heavily defended cities. Plus he helps everyone else.

DBP isnt bad, but if you only have DBP you are either simming or a turtle. To expand aggressively and take enemy cities you have to have a certain level of ABP. What that level is , i do no know. As to Czar's point, I agree there is a need to attack in a smart , efficient manner but you still need to attack.
 

saskoutrider

Guest
I currently rank 50 in points but 18th in # of cities. Here is a list of the top 60 players by points ordered by number of cities:

145 - sasarazstresen - Public Enemy - 1
119 - GilgameshD - Public Enemy - 2
107 - rhinos4ever - Public Enemy - 3
104 - benysek - Public Enemy - 5
101 - Lord Gryphon Prime - Public Enemy - 4
101 - sekeriadis - Public Enemy - 11
96 - YodaZ - Rogue - 7
96 - DimiMile - Public Enemy - 9
95 - Herophilus - Public Enemy - 6
95 - alkerman - Rogue - 8
95 - RS44 - Rogue - 21
92 - KingOfTheBurbs - Public Enemy - 19
91 - RogueBarbarian - Rogue - 45
90 - Abhilash Harichandan - Rogue - 28
89 - Basiliskoi - Public Enemy - 14
88 - czar666 - Rising Stars - 18
88 - Tisophene - Enigmas Pink BUnnies - 33
87 - saskoutrider - Rogue - 50
86 - killergod25 - The Crimson Elite - 13
84 - SnakeSanke - Public Enemy - 17
84 - Nobby Nobbs - Public Enemy - 25
81 - prkosa - Public Enemy - 16
80 - iLeX - Public Enemy - 26
80 - Valerian II - Public Enemy - 29
80 - speedmartini3 - Public Enemy - 30
79 - paraplan - Public Enemy - 10
79 - wenzellok - VRoD - 15
79 - messologi - *GORGONES KAI MANGES* - 20
78 - Alpheios - Public Enemy - 12
77 - Mac Edwards - Fat Camp - 24
77 - Klang - Public Enemy - 32
76 - bbga - Public Enemy - 23
76 - erwin ng - Enigmas Pink BUnnies - 37
75 - dimis69 - *GORGONES KAI MANGES* - 22
74 - The Mightty Warrior - Public Enemy - 36
74 - antinvasion - Strike Force - 38
74 - Fikrus - Public Enemy - 39
73 - Bodgerbella - Rogue - 55
71 - Plehman - Public Enemy - 40
71 - Steamroller - Rogue - 47
71 - Maisterius - Public Enemy - 53
70 - Ljuba - Public Enemy - 34
70 - warretd - Public Enemy - 54
70 - eddy.mad - Rogue - 56
69 - sores - Public Enemy - 51
68 - rshaw86 - Public Enemy - 49
67 - Formingus - Enigmas Pink BUnnies - 27
67 - popo7676 - Public Enemy - 41
66 - gosss - Public Enemy - 43
66 - jmrr - Public Enemy - 58
65 - whtlght - Rogue - 44
64 - Raven68 - Enigmas Pink BUnnies - 35
64 - jlaws014 - Public Enemy - 42
64 - noahthenaughty - Rising Stars - 48
64 - kdahlb - Public Enemy - 59
63 - titainiumx - Public Enemy - 31
62 - Baba Zeba - Public Enemy - 46
58 - Gener - VRoD - 57
57 - bilalo - Public Enemy - 52
57 - Zorba666 - Public Enemy - 60

I would suspect that I have a larger army then many of the people above me in the points list and some above me in the city list.

So if the ability to kick butt if a way to rank then a low city average is a good way to rank.
 

czar666

Mr.Kappa
thats some nice work... +rep !
having 13k cities is definitely crazy... there will be definitely some buildings that don't justify maxing them out no matter how are you using the city.

about ABP... I can easily earn a lot more ABP by draining my nukes on turtles enemies have built close to our area. But I choose to not to run for the stats, 260 LS against 3000 biremes will mean a very bad ratio of ABPs I get against the DBPs the enemy will get, so why should I help him? I'd better use the resources simply to run city festivals while his troops rot in order to turtle the city and he can't use them for other purposes.
 

Cauthonus

Guest
thats some nice work... +rep !
having 13k cities is definitely crazy... there will be definitely some buildings that don't justify maxing them out no matter how are you using the city.

about ABP... I can easily earn a lot more ABP by draining my nukes on turtles enemies have built close to our area. But I choose to not to run for the stats, 260 LS against 3000 biremes will mean a very bad ratio of ABPs I get against the DBPs the enemy will get, so why should I help him? I'd better use the resources simply to run city festivals while his troops rot in order to turtle the city and he can't use them for other purposes.
Czar, sshhh!!!!! PE might hear you and I lose my cheap BP income! :p
 

Mac Edwards

Guest
well i tend to see the number of cities as the real ranking but I've recently stumble on some players with 30 cities and less than 10 K BPs combined.....
(look in the south west corner of 66 but shhhh... I said nothing ;))

ABP: respect for those who get out there and try their best to kill all what moves

DBP: either it takes no skills and a good Bs wall or it take real skill to dodge what has to be and sink what can harm you and cost you a city.

Planning a ggod attack is not easy, defending successfully on a well timed attack require skills and that can reflect on DBPs.

Finally, it's people you play with or against who can really tell your value as a player. Statistics are just numbers and you can make numbers say anything...
 

griffin777

Guest
I think ABP determines whether a player is skilled or not. If a player doesn't have many cities, but has a ton of ABP, you can tell that the player is aggressive and is not afraid of upsetting people. On the other hand, points don't really matter. A person could have a lot of points by just conquering inactives and ghosts. Like Mac said, stats can lie.
 

saskoutrider

Guest
When I am asked if I am good with a player joining Rogue I generally look at their ABP rank and their points rank. They get big points from me if their ABP rank is higher then their points rank.

A comment on DBP.

My DBP is fairly high, not because I got attacked alot. It was one of the methods 5KP used to use to try to hold their cities. They would allow me to put the city into siege but then send the house to try to break the siege. So in effect my DBP went up because of an offensive action.

I don't think 5KP were successful in this against me and I did get a crapload of DBP out of the deal. ;)
 

czar666

Mr.Kappa
that is a poor way to try to defend cities.... if you put 2000 biremes in the city, even if they save the city, they'll run out of a lot more cities of LS nukes than the number of bireme cities you run out of.

I have a couple of comments on DBPs:

1. Are you the one earning them on your own? Or earning them at the cost of your alliance's defense troops/ bieremes? I really think the ones sending support should get the DBP (I understand it is difficult to implement for developers) and it shouldn't be the defender enjoying the culture points.

2. I have high respect for those who earn tonnes of DBP without losing many cities, that definitely means they are good defenders and hence they justify their DBP rank. (yeah FC, applaud yourselves) They are getting support in at the right place at the right time, and more support than the attacks the enemy can generate.
It is very easy to gain 5-10k DBP in 1 city, then lose it, conquer a couple of inactives/ghosts and repeat the process. Why should you be called 1 of the best defenders in that case?
 

Alastan

Guest
Abp/dbp

Frankly, Battle Points are not the means to an end, but just a way to keep score. We can all agree that the easier way to expand is city festivals (way less resources involved) unless you have some fool attack turtles of yours with silly attacks. ABP as a measure of a players prowess, I don't know..
Some guy can be the LS monster and siege breaker of an alliance, well turtlelized apart from that by his/her alliance and just launch LS at everything. That gains massive ABP and, to some extend, means the alliance works well.
Another guy may well get LOADS of DBP by defending a city against overwhelming odds with the help of his alliance.
However, both indicate just the activity of player and the support by his alliance. Personally, I think if somebody prevails hitting and being hit against other players over extended periods, he or she is good. Lots of people will just quit or move on. I also think, anybody who get 15 buddies to join in to make a guy quit have to understand this: I you smash the pieces, the game is over.

There's horses for courses, aces for places.
 

saskoutrider

Guest
that is a poor way to try to defend cities.... if you put 2000 biremes in the city, even if they save the city, they'll run out of a lot more cities of LS nukes than the number of bireme cities you run out of.

I have a couple of comments on DBPs:

1. Are you the one earning them on your own? Or earning them at the cost of your alliance's defense troops/ bieremes? I really think the ones sending support should get the DBP (I understand it is difficult to implement for developers) and it shouldn't be the defender enjoying the culture points.

2. I have high respect for those who earn tonnes of DBP without losing many cities, that definitely means they are good defenders and hence they justify their DBP rank. (yeah FC, applaud yourselves) They are getting support in at the right place at the right time, and more support than the attacks the enemy can generate.
It is very easy to gain 5-10k DBP in 1 city, then lose it, conquer a couple of inactives/ghosts and repeat the process. Why should you be called 1 of the best defenders in that case?
Most of my DBP is from my own troops defending. I believe I have lost more troops defending alliance members and others (Helped VRoD a few days ago) then have been lost defending me. I agree that DBP should go to the people who provide the troops but I can understand why the developers of the game have issues with it.

Like I said most of the DBP I have gotten was from defending against attacks after I put the city into siege but before the siege was over.

I have yet to lose a city to date with the exception of cities I have given to others. I don't expect to keep this up but so far so good.

Later

SaskO
 

Mac Edwards

Guest
SaskO, that would actually be a good stat to have: How many cities did you lose unwillingly?

There goes the best defenders! :pro: