Discussion Of The Week #1: City points

sploggo

Guest
wxt4l.png


I am going to introduce something new to this forum in order to get more people posting, for any of you that played Phi, you will know that it was very successful. All topics will be about Grepolis and more importantly, world Kappa.

Rules:
Respect is key. Respect everyones opinion, even if you don't agree with it yourself.
Keep on the discussion topic, don't stray.
No egotistical nonsense of any kind, everyone is equal, no matter of in game rank or so.

I will also be requiring some new topics to discuss weekly, so if you have any suggestions, just push them over to me and I'll pick a popular topic to discuss. Oh, and if you plan to use this on another world, please credit Osl112

This weeks question:
Is city size influential on play style or can you be a top fighter in Kappa with maxed out cities?
a lot of us like to have smaller cities in order to get more troops, but the larger your city the quicker you can rebuild. The top attacker in all grepolis has most of his cities completely maxed out, where is the balance between the two and what are your views on maxing out cities?

Credit to Osl112
 

nazaire

Guest
Depends on your style. If it's navel you might want to max navel or marketplace. I think you dont have any use for some other maxed buildings.
 

RS44

Guest
I go with smaller cities myself.

I can rebuild quickly enough. I try to demolish buildings that are not of use to me, such as the senate to a level like 20. It frees up between 35-40 population that you simply do not need.

I only run with a tower at my frontline cities, once my line moves forward, I demolish the tower..this is another 60 population.

That is an easy way to get 100 population in my opinion.

Also, if you think about it...I have 90+ cities right now, if I lose troops, I mostly transport resources in anyways, so rebuilding is never really a problem.

Just my two cents!
 

Fell33

Guest
I like to vary my cities a bit, with LS Nuke cities having about 10k points and maxing my bireme cities. It gives me about 195-220 LS in a nuke and 200+ biremes.
 

Hannibal I

Guest
with LS Nuke cities having about 10k points.... It gives me about 195-220 LS in a nuke

no offence but i wouldn't really class that as a nuke 195-220ls

a nuke should really be 240 ls upwards up too 313 ls which is the biggest i have ever seen...


yes i agree with RS44 on this one :)
 

dirkkuyt

Guest
In the beginning of a world maximising population is very important with success, in order to have as many troops as possible. But as time goes by and the player grows very large, wasted population is not so much of a problem because there will be many other cities to pick up some slack. Also I think most players get lazier the bigger they are (some exceptions though) and leave it up to their resource mines to fill them up again

great thread btw!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cauthonus

Guest
I like smaller cities myself. Why have a senate higher than 10? or an academy higher than 2 (just in case a noob bolts you). The downturn to this tactic is that you end up in the lower part of the rankings against players of similar size...
 

dirkkuyt

Guest
Some players may want a level 30 academy for city festivals, but I agree on the senate. I also only use the thermal baths of the two 'super building' slots and destroy the wall on cities in a 'safe' zone
 

sploggo

Guest
ideally, once you have researched everything you want. you wouldn't want to take your academy below lvl 22 (at least not if you are planning to build a CS in that city)

ideally you could have all 4k cities and very effective offensive nukes. but it would take longer to rebuild. also there is a certain no. of cities you would need before you can do this. no point trying it when you have 5 cities because a large player could steamroller you. it is the same with maxing out your cities, you get less pop so need more cities to make the same troops. I guess that is why sasa does it (as an example), it is because he can, he has enough cities to just send in wave after wave of small but easily replaceable troops. I would say that the limit in kappa, due to other player size for trying either fully maxed out or small cities (full farm) would be around 90 cities. I am basing this on the average player size in kappa in major war zones.

you look at someone like death36 and he is using very effective large nukes because most of his cities are around 8k, he is a lot lower in the rankings than he could be, but he can use this to his advantage because people may underestimate him at first. he does not have fully demolished cities, but by the time he has 20 more or so, I reckon he could be averaging at 6k per city and be even more effective in attacking.

sorry about the life story guys. just thought I would let you all know my views on the question.
 

LordFDS

Guest
I wanted to create a city to make swordsmen. they are great defense against slingers and ponies...

This is a reprint from my internal forum...

I wanted to see how many troops could you possibly train in 1 city. I chose an all swordsmen city, because they can be built in a basic setup, with no academy.

These are the results...

2125 swordsmen and 106 transports

city specs...

Timber camp - 15
Silver mine - 12
Harbor - 1
Farm - 40
Barracks - 4
Quarry - 15
Wall - 2
Marker - 2
Warehouse - max
Cave - max

I could have increased the buildings to get thermal baths and the extra 213 swordsmen, but, I ran out of energy and didn't want to increase the buildings, build the baths, and demolish the buildings... Academy "0" so no plow...

My conclusion: Just not worth the effort... I would rather have taken 2 more cities, than the week it took to build this one...
 

LordFDS

Guest
BTY... If giving all the data is an invite to attack a city. PLEASE DO!

Can't get rid of it...
 

saskoutrider

Guest
I go with smaller cities that are all the same including research. It gives me the ability to create any nuke I want. The only variance I have is the size of my mines.
 

saskoutrider

Guest
Here is the math. In both cases I assume Baths and Plows.

My optimum city is 9272 points which costs 776 population which leaves 2724 population for troops.

A maxed out city is 13716 points which costs 1144 population which leaves 2356 population for troops.

What does this mean to me? It means that a player with 80 cities maxed out will have the same fire power as a player with 69 smaller cities. The maxed out player would have 1097280 points which would put them in 6th place in the world and the player with 69 cities would have 639768 points and be in 66th place.

The maxed out player would be able to rebuild slightly faster and have a little better defense but the smaller player would have bigger nukes which is very important when attacking.

I could be in the top 10 if I maxed out my cities at the moment but I would actually be weaker after doing it.

That is the math as I see it.
 

King Beast

Guest
no offence but i wouldn't really class that as a nuke 195-220ls

a nuke should really be 240 ls upwards up too 313 ls which is the biggest i have ever seen...


yes i agree with RS44 on this one :)


313...?

You've obviously not played gamma if thats the biggest you've seen, there was once a 600+ LS nuke, needless to say the player got a ban... :p
 

M.Sockel

Guest
This is kind of off-topic, but that particular player is not the number one attacker on all of Grepolis, although he does have the most total BP. (I suppose it can get confusing if you don't speak German/didn't look at these stats in English.)This fella is top in ABP with 4.2 million.... but he actually maxes out his cities even more than the other guy does.

Back on topic. If anyone is interested, I'm going to communicate with the player in question, Grasihasi, on German Gamma... and post what he has to say on the matter.
 

dirkkuyt

Guest
kudos to you for the brilliant research! hopefully we get a detailed response
 

saskoutrider

Guest
The math is still the math. Smaller cities means bigger armies.

It could be that the top players with the most ABP had smaller cities when they were gaining the BP and then built up later. It could also be that they did alot of BP farming on players that do not dodge.

I don't know. All I know is the math does not lie.
 

KingOfTheBurbs

Guest
I keep my cities around 10,200 points

Maxed out:
Timber
Mine
Quarry
Academy
Cave
harbor/ barracks (depending on type of city)
Temple ( love my favor)
Thermal Baths

I keep senate at L9, Market L10, Harbor/barracks L20 (depending on type of city)

I like to have a LS nuke at 270 LS and chariot nukes and over 450 chariots.

I have seen players who max out cities but are still great attackers...all preference i guess
 

Alastan

Guest
The math is still the math. Smaller cities means bigger armies.


I don't know. All I know is the math does not lie.

The maths, indeed, do not lie. A level 28 academy (necessary for battering ram) will take up 84 pop. Let's just say you squeeze out an additional 6 pop from somewhere. You can have an extra 9 LS. That means (at 200 naval attack per piece) 1800 extra naval attack. Let's say you have 259 LS this way (for the sake of picking a number). That gives you a total number of 259*200 = 51800 naval attack, going up to 56980 with favourable wind.
Without those 9 LS, your total naval attack from 250 ships is 250*200 = 50000. With battering rams, this goes up to 50000 * 1.1 = 55000. With favourable wind this goes up to 60000 (or 60500 if it's *1.1*1.1 instead of *1.2, not too sure which applies. Also, your ships will be built 10% faster, cheaper and be 10% quicker. Academy 0 or level mickey mouse to squeeze out a few LS (or attack troops) more is not all that great, says the unlying maths ;)
 
Top