Do Gun Restrictions/Bans Reduce Violent Crime?

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DeletedUser33530

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So nuke Texas and we should be good :p
 

DeletedUser49358

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Thomas there are several things wrong with your assessment on U.S. police force

They are trained to fire when they absolutely have to, the gun is the last thing they go to, not the first.

Police in the U.S. never go straight for their firearms either, I have spoken with officers on this before and the rule is to one up the person you are trying to apprehend, if they are unarmed then use mace/pepper spray, if they have a hand weapon like a knife then use a taser/taser gun, if they are armed with a firearm then draw your firearm and call for back up.

I just cannot stomach the idea of walking down the street, an officer sees me and thinks he sees a gun in my wasteband, he shouts for me to stop but I have earplugs in and don't hear him, I eventually do and reach to turn off my music, he thinks i'm going for my gun and instantly goes for his and shoots. Entirely hypothetical, but given what we read in the news, does it really seem that unlikely? Would you be totally shocked if this appeared in the news? I'd think not, I certainly wouldn't.

Again I have spoken with officers regarding to situations such as these, an officer told me about an instance were he pulled over a vehicle and a hand gun was sitting in the passenger seat. The officer imminently told the driver to place his hands on the steering wheel, the passenger looked over at the firearm and went to reach for it and as soon as that happened the officer drew his firearm and pointed it towards the driver telling him to freeze and put his hands on the steering wheel again and the driver then complied no shots were ever fired. My point is that a U.S. officer would NEVER fire shots on a civilian just because they 'think' they have a firearm and are reaching for it.

I am entirely anti-gun. In the UK, the police fired a weapon just 6-7 times last year. That's 6-7 times total, despite the armed units being called out over 12,000 times. Every time they do there is a full investigation, it makes the news every time, and their actions are scrutinised to establish whether it was justifiable. They are trained to fire when they absolutely have to, the gun is the last thing they go to, not the first.

You talk as if the procedures taken in the UK are far superior than those in the U.S. but what kind of effect does such scrutiny from using your firearm have on officers who are trained to use them and continue to practice their marksmanship with them as part of their job. Certainly such pressure would interfere with an officer's judgement on when to use a firearm and could even lead to situations where officers help their firearms holstered instead of drawing or even using them, I'm not trying to insinuate that this is 100% an issue that UK officers face but I think it would be naive to not consider the possibility of it.
 

DeletedUser33530

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Police in the U.S. never go straight for their firearms either, I have spoken with officers on this before and the rule is to one up the person you are trying to apprehend, if they are unarmed then use mace/pepper spray, if they have a hand weapon like a knife then use a taser/taser gun, if they are armed with a firearm then draw your firearm and call for back up.
I have faith that this a rule and it is how they are trained however it is becoming increasingly clear that many cops have a habit of missing those steps. I can cite far too many cases of cops instinctly pulling guns on and or shooting unarmed people who pose zero threat. I understand that they have to make quick decisions and sometimes they mess up. That said in alot of these shooting cases it's almost comical that they would believe these people to be threats.

My point is that a U.S. officer would NEVER fire shots on a civilian just because they 'think' they have a firearm and are reaching for it.
this just isn't true. I would LOVE for it to be true but it simply isn't.
 

DeletedUser

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Let's reopen this debate.

The recent mass massacres in the United States have brought it back into the public eye, and then an 11 year old boy managed to gain access to a lethal firearm and then shoot to death an innocent little 8 year old girl.

12071441_10200854526363662_863950199_n.jpg
*This has been taken from the BBC. Which is an independent news body funded by the British Government.

Let's go through this:

I'm going to focus on one argument:

Statement: 'Restricting guns will reduce the number of law-abiding citizens that have access to them and as criminals will still have them crime rates won't be affected'

Take a look at the graph. Guns make killing someone as easy as compressing your finger by a millimeter and open access by the public to them results in a massive increase of murders/violence.
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
Let's reopen this debate.

The recent mass massacres in the United States have brought it back into the public eye, and then an 11 year old boy managed to gain access to a lethal firearm and then shoot to death an innocent little 8 year old girl.

View attachment 11536
*This has been taken from the BBC. Which is an independent news body funded by the British Government.

Let's go through this:

I'm going to focus on one argument:

Statement: 'Restricting guns will reduce the number of law-abiding citizens that have access to them and as criminals will still have them crime rates won't be affected'

Take a look at the graph. Guns make killing someone as easy as compressing your finger by a millimeter and open access by the public to them results in a massive increase of murders/violence.

Blanket statistics of countries won't matter. At least not those with varying gun laws. You would need to show whether those killings were done under gun restrictions present or absent. If I recall correctly, the stats show that the cities with strictest gun control have the highest violent crime rate with firearms and without firearms. But I'm on my phone and should be studying, so haven't the time to find that stat yet.
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
We've got to the stage where comedians are making more sense than elected US politicians when it comes to gun control issues.

Everyone is making more sense than politicians. Even inno. Yes I said it.
 

Thrillology

Phrourach
I don't know about any of you, but several studies have proven that it's mental illness behind the killings. In the United States, the social libertarians of the 20th century successfully shut down almost all of our programs to help the mentally ill. Since the release of the mentally ill from asylums, hospitals, etc. there was an increase in homicides.

There's also another factor that largely Europeans neglect: the black market. Latin America has a huge influence over the United States in the black market, notably drug trafficking and illegal firearm sales. Gun control simply would not work. Meth is illegal and it's all over the place, alcohol once was illegal but it was still all over the place (and alcohol is the leading human cause of death).

The mentally ill go to gun-free zones when they have their shootings. Like in Oregon's Umpqua Community College, where a Jihadi John came to the gun-free campus and ruthlessly shot people, unloading entire clips (a sane murderer wouldn't even do that) into several students. There's something funny, too: one of the professor went around the campus erecting signs that say, "This is a gun-free zone." as if that would somehow magically stop a criminal from entering and shooting.

More mentality stuff...
Chicago and Detroit are gun-free zones, yet, they're crawling with guns that even have the serial numbers filed off of them! Unregistered guns. Criminals simply don't obey laws, the sooner people realize this, the more lives that will be saved in the future.
There's also gun areas in Europe where crime rate is actually lower. It has a lot to do with the mental state of criminals.
For crying out loud, America doesn't help their mentally ill, the social liberals and libertarians of the 20th century brought an end to that.

MORE violent crime...
You've probably heard this before: the violent crime rate per 100,000 people in the UK is higher than in the US. Also, the violent crime rate is higher in England and Wales than it was before the handgun ban.


Countering "There's more deaths with guns around"
In the United States, according to the Center for Disease Control, they've been finding that suicide is the leading cause of deaths involving guns.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
I don't know about any of you, but several studies have proven that it's mental illness behind the killings. In the United States, the social libertarians of the 20th century successfully shut down almost all of our programs to help the mentally ill. Since the release of the mentally ill from asylums, hospitals, etc. there was an increase in homicides.

There's also another factor that largely Europeans neglect: the black market. Latin America has a huge influence over the United States in the black market, notably drug trafficking and illegal firearm sales. Gun control simply would not work. Meth is illegal and it's all over the place, alcohol once was illegal but it was still all over the place (and alcohol is the leading human cause of death).

The mentally ill go to gun-free zones when they have their shootings. Like in Oregon's Umpqua Community College, where a Jihadi John came to the gun-free campus and ruthlessly shot people, unloading entire clips (a sane murderer wouldn't even do that) into several students. There's something funny, too: one of the professor went around the campus erecting signs that say, "This is a gun-free zone." as if that would somehow magically stop a criminal from entering and shooting.

More mentality stuff...
Chicago and Detroit are gun-free zones, yet, they're crawling with guns that even have the serial numbers filed off of them! Unregistered guns. Criminals simply don't obey laws, the sooner people realize this, the more lives that will be saved in the future.
There's also gun areas in Europe where crime rate is actually lower. It has a lot to do with the mental state of criminals.
For crying out loud, America doesn't help their mentally ill, the social liberals and libertarians of the 20th century brought an end to that.

MORE violent crime...
You've probably heard this before: the violent crime rate per 100,000 people in the UK is higher than in the US. Also, the violent crime rate is higher in England and Wales than it was before the handgun ban.


Countering "There's more deaths with guns around"
In the United States, according to the Center for Disease Control, they've been finding that suicide is the leading cause of deaths involving guns.

I'm pretty sure the shooting of an 8 year old girl by a 11 year old boy isn't the result of mental illness.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

I don't think you understand how stupid your argument is when you say that 'gun free zones don't work' based on the fact that a gun-free campus in the middle of an entire country jammed full of guns wasn't safe.

Are you kidding me on the United Kingdom stat? Our violent crime is someone get punched in the face, your violent crime is a 11 year old boy shooting an 8 year old girl in the face.
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
According to the National Center for Health fewer than 5% of the 120 000 gun-related killings in the United States between 2001 and 2010 were perpetrated by people diagnosed with mental illness.
 

DeletedUser48096

Guest
The mental health arguement is simply a dodge to avoid the real issue of Gun Control. Its easy to paint a person as mentally unstable and protect the broader issue than it is to actually investigate that issue itself. The fact is there is a definate postive corralation between the amount of guns and the number of mass killings involving guns and also that gun control and restrictions do limit gun deaths.

Fact is the weapons trade is too lucrative for some people and restricting that trade will of course effect the bottom line of companies who appear to have some politicans in their pocket..
 
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