Wish List Endgame Revamp (Stronghold Victory)

czar666

Mr.Kappa
For the record, engame revamps are not DNS.
However, many people have come up with ideas regarding what the endgame should look like, so some get closed for being duplicates or just very similar.

That being said, and I hate to burst your bubbles, but I don't anticipate any of these ideas passing anytime soon when a WW revamp has already been announced last year. This means that they are already changing this in some way, and I would be shocked if they changed it again soon after.
From grepolis devblog roadmap:
"World Wonder Revamp
Finally! Right? We know a lot of players have been waiting for this to happen and personally, we are also eagerly waiting for a change concerning the World Wonders. We still don’t have a final decision, not to mention a concept. Maybe we will remove the World Wonders and introduce a completely new late-game feature to incentivize battles. Maybe some tweaks and changes to the existing World Wonders are enough… only Zeus knows!
"

If they have not finalized the way they are going to change it, I guess they are open to ideas. Threads like these will give them ideas and they may implement a mix of a few ideas...
 

plagiato

Chiliarch
great idea! I never really understood the wonders system :D

here few things that came up.

1.The island must be called Olympus. "coz at the end winners become godlike" :D
2. it should be protected by myth units only, but lots of them
3. Once taken Stronghold must work as a regular city but with all buildings/researches maxed. to have a palace instead of senate. The player who have it must upgrade the palace to a certain lvl. When every upgrade is complete it will provoke an attack with mytical units. maybe from different God in each lvl. The last lvl attacking army should be mixed. This way the owner will have to fill the city with defense before every upgrade.

The reason for this attacks: It will be almost impossible for a player to do it alone and he will need the help of his Alliance. It will be a quite big effort so I believe the winning alliance will go for this island only when there is no resistance left in the current world and with no enemies game will end as a simcity.
 

Aannira

Guest
Interisting idea, +rep :)
Devs may have already made their mind about what they'll put in the endgame re-vamp, but after all, this kind of idea can also be used for some mini-games to enliven worlds at some point.
This would have some effects similar to the idea I had Passed a few months ago (Improving World Wonders: mythical fighting challenges; no idea if the devs would take some of it), keeping some parts of "WW ops" aspect, and team play, while rewarding firepower instead of sending ressources.
So alliances wouldn't say "Ocean XX is mine", but "Area around this stronghold island is mine", and area is a corner between oceans. If this sounds weird, just put 1 stronghold island in the middle of each ocean and it will do.
If I get it well, in practice alliances would be right ready to fill the islands with colonization when they open, and they would be very sensitive about some enemy colo near "their" island when endgame is near. The foundings on stronghold island should be fairly supported and tripped right from the start, as all other alliances know they have to take these ones and no other. These foundings would be turned into troop cities: thermal baths, minimal temple to have a wall, max barracks, minimal harbor etc.

This favors fast-builders and good supporters. Maybe you'd need something to favor good attackers too: while in the current system taking 1 city can be enough, here you'd need to take a majority of the island to gain control of the stronghold.
 

DrRoboto

Guest
I think the end-game also could use a re-vamp, and I cannot wait to see what the Devs have planned for us. In the original WW it becomes more a game of who can support and send resources the fastest, which is pretty anti-climactic for a war game.

I do like this idea, and perhaps later down the road they could implement a combination of this idea and world wonders or something.

+ Rep for a creative idea!
 
Sorry but a no from me--this makes it possible for rim alliances to win. They just take all the strongholds on the far rim and they go unprotected while the core alliances are fighting for one little stronghold-- if you did some re balancing to possibly award more points for a core stronghold then that would increase my vote.
Vaild point ...however a simple tweak will take care of this....as we know a world pop of 250 mill triggers the WW...lets say this remains the same....the 'value' of each ocean's stronghold then should be a function of the population of that ocean (and can be displayed next to it)..... so now there are 100 strong holds but those in the core can be worth more a lot more that the others...

This also adds a dimension of tactics to things....a dominant alliance has to plan how it wants to dominate the max no of oceans....this will need planning and execution of a very different level/degree....

great idea btw....+rep from me
 

djdom32

Phrourach
I really like this idea. Provided it has a balance element to it to prevent simply building up stronghold out on rim but to be honest I'm not even sure that would work if you have 100 slots on the island.

Some improvements I think might be useful are things like the number of slots on the stronghold should be dependant on the alliance cap of the world. Smaller alliances mean in my view that it should be a smaller stronghold to prevent it being a complete free for all. I don't like the idea of the stronghold being like a city. Personally i think it not being able to have walls etc is a bonus as it makes it easier for different allys to exchange control of the stronghold and make it a big all out fist fight right until the end.
 

The XII Labors

Guest
Sounds great! From hat ive heard WW sounds pretty boring.
 

Tzveti

Phrourach
This is a pretty cool idea and would also completely irradicate the sim city attitude of World wonders:/ With this there will be a constant war over spots on the island:) Sounds awesome:D i'd be happy to have this implemented.
And i dunno, an idea for why flying units can't get there is it's enchanted or something? some backstory like that...:p
 

Telcontar

Phrourach
Quick Q : From what I understood, the stronghold can only be held by units sent from cities on that island correct? And alliances have to jostle for control of this island?


1) If it is just a few islands that can have strongholds, then all attention is going to be focused on those cities. Everyone will be constantly attacking to gain control. What happens if it drags on for too long a period of time? No alliance is able to gain control of the Stronghold long enough to win for say...3 months? (not saying you should have more islands, just asking what happens)

2) It heavily favours rim alliances. One method is to make the stronghold appear only when the req oceans reach a min level of points. But then lets say there is a strong alliance in complete control of O33. But there are no noteworthy alliances in O32,22,23. So the stronghold doesnt appear for this alliance. Thus they no longer have the chance to win an endgame. This method will therefore not allow everyone the chance to win. WW has many flaws yes, but even noob alliances can takeover an island and start constructing, giving themselves a (very slim) chance.

How can we redress this?
 

figtree2

Polemarch
Proposal:
To replace the WW system with a better one

Have you Checked the DNS and PSI lists in the Archives? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested? Yes


Reason:
WW system is hated by many players

Details:
Level 1- 10,000 resources~ 5000 Hit points
Level 2- 25,000 resources~ 20,000 Hit points
Level 3- 100,000 resources~ 50,000 Hit points
Level 4- 250,000 resources~ 100,000 Hit Points
Level 5- 500,000 resources ~ 250,000 Hit Points

Hit points is basically how many units you must sacrifice to bring it down. (Note the amounts may be changed)

Units to Hit Points
Swordsman- 5
Archers- 8
Hoplites- 16
Slingers- 23
Horseman- 55
Chariot- 56
Catapult- 100
------------------Mythical-Units----------------------
Divine Envoy- 35
Harpy- 266
Medusa- 425
Cyclops- 756
*Cant attack with hydras
Cerebus- 210
Erinys- 1210
Manticore- 945
Minotaur- 420
Centaur- 156
Pegasus- 100

Note once you conquer one stronghold your percent goes up by 1 since there are 100 oceans.
If you lose total control of the island the stronghold still belongs to you until the attackers completely destroy the stronghold. By upgrading it you are increasing the maximum damage it can take. Each upgrade is the same as adding 5 wall levels. You can support it, but there is a limit.

Level 1- 1000
Level 2- 2500
Level 3- 5000
Level 4- 10000
Level 5- 20000

Thats total population, the alliance cant support more than the limit.

The goal is to defeat the units in the stronghold (You lose all men no matter what), make it level 0 and take it over.
You cant cast spells on it.

Only cities on the island can send units and they must constantly fight for the stronghold, lose a city and the stronghold is vulnerable.
There is only one stronghold per ocean and an alliance must control 51% or more of the strongholds (available at the time), so if only the core oceans have strongholds and an alliance controls o44, o54, and 045 than they would win if they are fully upgraded. Once an alliance gets 51% or more than a mass mail will be sent out to the entire world saying that (alliance name) has gained control of most of the world and that if they hold it for 4 weeks than the world will end. For a stronghold to appear, 2 alliances must have at least (250k points for speed 1, 500k for speed 2, and 1M for speed 3).

Visual Aids:X (Working on it)


Balance:I need suggestions for this


Abuse Prevention: Strongholds wont become available til the ocean reaches a certain point of maturity.


Summary:To add a stronghold victory system that will replace the WW system.

*Still open for ideas to improve this
 
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