Fair or unfair? need feedback please...

[DeletedUser55169]

Im fairly new in this community so i do not really know alot about unwritten rules and things like that. Now i am in a situation that just doesnt feel good so i need feedback on this.
Wonder era is over, wonders are divided between 3 alliances, now 2 of them wanna merge to get the win. Im in one of them, but this just doesnt feel good, i think winning should be done by busting the enemies wonders, not by busting your own. It feels like cheating. Now i am told that its normal, which i actually cant imagine. So the only way to find out is here.
So my question, is this fair or is this unfair? Is it normal? Does this happen alot?

 

[TromboneTom]

Depends if you want the crown to mean anything.

 

[DeletedUser55169]

I wanna know how the majority of this community thinks about this. Its pretty Obvious how i think about this, question is, is this normal, accepted or is it seen as unfair. It doesnt feel good and i dont do things that dont feel good. But it is an important matter for me and will decide wether i will keep playing this game or leave.

 

[TromboneTom]

Alot of alliances play with honour and won't hand a win like that.

I'm pretty sure it has been done before and will happen even more in the future however I don't think you should ask the community how they feel just to make yourself feel better.

If you feel like it's wrong then don't go through with it its as simple as that however I'm certain this would go through even without you so as I said in my first post it all depends on how badly you personally want the crown.

 

[DeletedUser55169]

Alot of alliances play with honour and won't hand a win like that.

I'm pretty sure it has been done before and will happen even more in the future however I don't think you should ask the community how they feel just to make yourself feel better.

If you feel like it's wrong then don't go through with it its as simple as that however I'm certain this would go through even without you so as I said in my first post it all depends on how badly you personally want the crown.

 

[DeletedUser55169]

Its not to make me feel better, im not going through with it anyways. I wanna know how the community thinks about this and if there is a possibility to make rules about this. I cant imagine the people who made this game intended this to be a way of winning, i even think this will make people leave this game if it does, i actually will leave this game if this isnt adressed properly. If i can find myself in such a situation again, whats the fun in that?

 

[DeletedUser48582]

Not all have the same view on how this game is supposed to be played King. Worse things have happend, and will happen in the future. But i respect your sight on things.

Cant say its my style but for others it is.

And to make one thing clear... SONS wont leave the server just because one alliance get handed the 4-win... if they want the crown they have to go through my alliance and we dont bow to anyone. We have plenty of patience

 

[OutOfCharacters]

I've often said crowns don't mean anything in grepo anymore. So many people have crowns that either weren't earned honorably or were due to half the server working together. Who wants a crown as a result of a lovefest? Crowns unfortunately don't reflect true winners or fighters. And as the years go by I see more and more underhanded play. So maybe it's normal these days? That doesn't make it feel right.

I decided a few years ago to just enjoy fighting till the death. To me the crown is like a little gnat flying around annoying everyone and distracting from good game play. It makes everyone stupid.

No, I don't think it's a suitable ending. It's cheating everyone (on both sides) out of the good fight. It's a cop-out for people who are tired of fighting and want to get it over with by taking the easy way out. Lots of people pour a lot of time and energy into these servers. In the old days servers went on for eternity. Now, people get tired quickly and leave servers after WW if there isn't a clear winner...they get entrenched in other worlds and the post-WW server becomes an annoyance. IMO if a team isn't willing to stick it out after that, they should be up front about that and ghost or walk away. Not try to hug everyone nearby to put a crown on their own profile that is meaningless.

But this is coming from someone who doesn't share any awards on their profile because I'm not into that. So my opinion may differ from those who like to dress up their profiles with fake accolades. And as years go by I've seen more and more grepo players who are happy to buy their successes, and who are less focused on the pride of earning it through skill. It's why I keep quitting grepo, lol. But it seems to go hand in hand with this concept. I'm very interested to see how many people out there think it's a good, fair move. I do not.

 

[DeletedUser49011]

First of all - Huge respect! I think it's cool you stand against what you find wrong and that you ask for opinions.

Since there are no rules against it, it ain't cheating. Then it comes down to one simple question: Is that the way i want to win? It would be the same as winning a marathon because the leader fell just before the finish line and you ran past him. You won, surely. But everyone knows that you're not a real winner.

Now of the answers you have gotten so far, we're all a part of Odin. So perhaps we're biased. I don't mind losing, if its because the opponent was better than me. This would not be the case and haven't been so far. That's why the server is as it is at the moment.

 

[jameslongst]

Its totally lame, bro. Don't win like that.

 

[DeletedUser55169]

Ofcourse alot of people that dont share my opinion will not post here, i understand that. I do hope to see more opinions over here and hope to get people thinking and maybe changing some things in this game to prevent this kinda frustrating situations. Maybe i shouldnt care and try find a team that shares my values on this in the future, dont know yet, im not gonna decide fast, gonna take my time for this.
Maybe some people have found themselves in my situation and felt the same as i do. I havent been in the situation where i was on the other side, but i can imagine it must be very frustrating. And thats excactly what this is about in my opinion. How would i feel when i was on the other side?
Now isnt it possible to make rules for this as a community? i dont think theres anything wrong with making rules about matters that will make this game more fair....

 

[DeletedUser55592]

Hold on lol just a reminder... sons did just that went you arranged with TF to drop their wonder and do it that way, never mind the crazy amount of alliances paired with them

 

[DeletedUser55169]

OK i really wanna hear opinions from people that dont play in my current world or did in the past, i want opinions from people that arent biased. I also dont want this thread to become a discussion between alliances in my world, so i do hope a moderator can keep a little eye on this thread so it doesnt get out of hand, thats not where this thread is meant for.

 

[DeletedUser49011]

Hold on lol just a reminder... sons did just that went you arranged with TF to drop their wonder and do it that way, never mind the crazy amount of alliances paired with them

We did?

And which amount of crazy alliances are we paired with? And will that imaginary number you have even reach close to the pair between Magic and Cleo?

 

[DeletedUser55169]

if you wanna discuss this please open your own thread in the selembria world tab, this thread is not open for discussion but meant for telling your opinion on this matter. I want to know how the community thinks, especially the people that arent involved in my world. I do realize people in my world are biased and i will most certainly not weigh their opinions in my decision.
I just wanna know if this kinda play is gonna be accepted as a community or not, so i can base my decision on that and know wether i fit in this community or not.

 

[DeletedUser54192]

If you look at it with regards to the game rules, it is "fair", as it is doesn't break any of the rules set out by Inno. Personally, this isn't how I'd want to win or get a crown.

The current endgame is full of "unfair" tactics that can lead to an easy win/crown.

• Huge teams/coalitions working together to build a single set of WWs. (En96 for example, where the 4/7 was achieved by an 8-branch coalition that included 3 of the top alliance families. Maybe en95, where two of the three big WW contenders merged shortly before the wonders stage.)
• Treachery. A few players, or even an entire team, breaking their own WW islands in exchange for a guaranteed crown. (En96, where the team which had already got 4/7 bribed WW-island players in both blocking alliance families to break their respective groups' WWs in return for a first-batch crown, and bribed an entire 1-branch team into switching sides in exchange for a rotation crown.)
• Merging for the win, as you've described above.
• World-killing, however it is achieved. (En94 was basically killed off by one central team (a single alliance (on a 100-cap world) that was a cherry-pick of most of the biggest players on the world that alternatively hugged and betrayed the other major teams until most of them lost interest in the world.) This isn't exactly the fault of WWs as it could happen to an extent under Domination, but it is slightly easier in WWs as it relied on having no competition left rather than a specific amount of territory.)

This behaviour has been regularly accepted by the community (unfortunately, in my opinion). It's usually trumpeted as good gameplay by the winners, and any claims of "unfair" or "immoral" tactics are just blamed on jealousy (despite the fact that the players decrying it often wouldn't want to win that way) or sour grapes. It's rare that people who would benefit from it actually openly question the fairness of it: usually they quit the team in protest (and get called a traitor) or suppress any concerns and sell out their morality/honour to get the reward anyways.

Note: While I did play for a bit on Selymbria and still have an account, I never really got properly involved, and therefore my opinion shouldn't be too biased.

 

[DeletedUser48582]

Hold on lol just a reminder... sons did just that went you arranged with TF to drop their wonder and do it that way, never mind the crazy amount of alliances paired with them

So... in which Way did we merge with TF?? Are their leaders in our Council? Did we merge to win a server.

Merging to “win” is a sign of two Alliances who admit to themselves they cant win by themselves.

“Crazy amount of alliances” lol which server do you play??? We are outnumbered 1:2/3 on points and most likely on number of players so come again.

For the sake of this thread we Can continue none related topics in the world-thread.

 

[DeletedUser44867]

From personal perspective:
is it normal? yes. it happens fairly frequently.....
is it technically fair? Yeah, I would say so... some people take diplomacy in this game very seriously, and technically this is just a form of diplomacy.
is it acceptable? For some yes, for many, no.

The developers are currently working on an end game which might partially fix this... Since there is no crown sharing, only one alliance will be able to win. A merger would still be possible - however, it would have to be on a smaller scale. Merging two full alliances won't work - it'd have to be two half-full alliances, or otherwise some heavy cuts. It would still be possible for the best of two alliances to merge together and leave everyone else behind, though. Which, again, would be fair - but probably frowned upon. The developers just wanting to get rid of crown sharing, in itself, might tell you a bit about what people think about end game merges and pacts. It's a big enough issue for people that they want to start to change it.

The question of is it acceptable - most people who don't find it acceptable find each other..... and create alliances that live by the no-pacting philosophy, or something similar to it. The easiest example of this is that I can direct you to is in the acropolis: see Curtain Calls in the pre-mades thread, but there are other very well known alliances that have vaguely the same philosophies. I wouldn't be surprised if you found a few players in your own alliance who feel the same way as you and aren't happy about the merge.

I think one small issue sometimes is that things come to a bit of a stalemate at the end game... and for the purposes of closing out a world sometimes certain alliances will..... stray from their beliefs? just so they can close out a world. Some people will do anything for the win - or, otherwise, just to make sure the other alliance loses.
I honestly think there is a big theme in grepolis now where a lot of players recognize each other, and there is a lot of bad blood between certain players or groups of players. I've spoken to certain players who have directly told me that they joined a world just to rim a certain player, and was going to leave immediately afterwards. People are more than willing to throw away their morals just to make sure someone else doesn't win.

I think it has been normalized and people are used to it, but i'm not sure it's been fully 'accepted'.

 

[DeletedUser46647]

To try and avoid the unavoidable circus this thread will eventually turn into I'll just say this...

We could have done the same act as another team in EN99, loosely coordinate a time and work out a favor swap situation that would guarantee the wonder to our chosen team. What we actually did was turn down 2 different offers made by other teams to basically be a "wonder blocker". Don will verify because he was one of the leaders that offered the option to us. He had to because that's his job to give his own team as many options as possible. Anyone here who has actually successfully led a team will agree.

What actually came about was the fairest way to keep the race competitive. It would have been a 4 way race until one team dropped a wonder to another as described above.

The game is a combination of strategy/tactics/diplomacy right? Who will say that my small group in EN99 (the only major alliance that did not carry multiple branches except for a short period while merging in another local team) did not balance all 3 while keeping every arrangement and promise to not only the other teams it dealt with but to also its own membership? Right now that same membership will decide how to move forward with a decision. Of course that decision may be beneficial to our pact mate ... but it will also benefit our membership as well.

To Odin and TF members who have contributed to my teammates thread ... the dye was already cast when TF dropped a wonder and Odin rightly took advantage. That's the game. Please don't complain if you have to experience the same situation we did. If they had 2 to drop and timed both you would have won no? (edit ... 2 more)

King has a right to his opinions but I have players that need to move on and I am one. I have to think about 30+ other members as well.

Thank you also for all the kind words with the passing of our friend and teammate. In the end this is just a game and regardless of how we feel it takes situations like this to put things into proper perspective.

 

[DeletedUser55169]

Excactly, its just a game, thats excactly my point. I wanna have fun in a game, thats whats its all about. Now what happened in the past happened in the past.... I can forgive and i can forget, np at all. But cant we make this game fun for everyone, we just have to apply some rules for it. Now this might be an idea: theres already worlds with morale and without morale. Well this issue i adressed is also about morale i think. Now i wanna play fair and have fun, but i also want others to have fun. Cant we make seperate rules for morale worlds and non-morale worlds? Like in morale worlds no changing teams after endgame started or something like that, and non morale worlds can do whatever they like, maybe this way the two different kinda players in this game can be seperated and wont go to eachothers throat. Or atleast let Alliance leaders be very clear from the beginning and let everyone know this kinda diplo is part of their game, so players like me can avoid worlds where such alliances play? You know, i really love this game, but this is such an anti-climax for me.