GNN Breaking News

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Thermopylae continues with the liberation of towns that were under the rule of Atlantis Imperials and Carpe Diem.
Thermopylae has taken exactly 3 Atlantis Imperials cities since the beginning of the month, all of them belonging to a player who announced last month that he was quitting the game, and has now left. That's not really something to brag about, Futbol.

I can assure you that there is no witch hunt or purge going on in Atlantis at this time. Also, given that someone is leaking information from the coalition, a witch hunt would be completely justified, and is no doubt what you would do if you had someone leaking information from your alliance. You can make all the claims you like, but no-one has to believe you.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
...so are you implying than George Washington was a highly immoral and unethical person because he relied on rings of spies?
He won the war of independence due to his rings of spies. Is he a hero to you or a despicable immoral and treacherous person?

You are also wrong about Greek Mythology.Tales of love often involve incest, or the seduction or rape of a mortal woman by a male god, resulting in heroic offspring. This does not sound to me as ethical behaviour.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
He won the war of independence due to his rings of spies. Is he a hero to you or a despicable immoral and treacherous person?
As I have dual nationality between Britain and America, I could see him as the hero or the villain from a historical point of view. ;)

I would argue that he was most likely a great person, but that his use of spies was not a positive factor.

You are also wrong about Greek Mythology.
Not really. I was right on the Jason and Medea tale, which does show that treachery leads to bad ends.

Tales of love often involve incest, or the seduction or rape of a mortal woman by a male god, resulting in heroic offspring. This does not sound to me as ethical behaviour.
Not all of the action in Greek mythology is ethical, I admit. (Although they had different values and ethics to what we have now, in some cases. Consider the Ptolemaic Dynasty. Also, the Greek gods were considered above human laws or ethics, in the majority of cases). Treachery and deceit is very rarely rewarded in Greek mythology though. There is the story of Jason and Medea as I described above. There is Prometheus, punished for stealing fire from the gods. And there are more. And we can look to modern morals as well. If someone is treacherous and deceitful, you will not trust them nor think that they are a good person.

(By the way, congratulations on trying to dodge the rest of my message, where I proved the flaws in all your other arguments already.)
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
As I have dual nationality between Britain and America, I could see him as the hero or the villain from a historical point of view. ;)

I would argue that he was most likely a great person, but that his use of spies was not a positive factor.


Not really. I was right on the Jason and Medea tale, which does show that treachery leads to bad ends.


Not all of the action in Greek mythology is ethical, I admit. (Although they had different values and ethics to what we have now, in some cases. Consider the Ptolemaic Dynasty. Also, the Greek gods were considered above human laws or ethics, in the majority of cases). Treachery and deceit is very rarely rewarded in Greek mythology though. There is the story of Jason and Medea as I described above. There is Prometheus, punished for stealing fire from the gods. And there are more. And we can look to modern morals as well. If someone is treacherous and deceitful, you will not trust them nor think that they are a good person.

(By the way, congratulations on trying to dodge the rest of my message, where I proved the flaws in all your other arguments already.)
oh well... it does not surprise me the revisionism and distortion of history that you engage in order to desperately attempt to support your senseless point.

The Gods even helped humans when engaging in espionage. Have you ever read the Illiad or heard of the Kryptea?

"....The Greek commanders sleep well that night, with the exception of Agamemnon and Menelaus. Eventually, they rise and wake the others. They convene on open ground, on the Trojan side of their fortifications, to plan their next move. Nestor suggests sending a spy to infiltrate the Trojan ranks, and Diomedes quickly volunteers for the role. He asks for support, and Odysseus steps forward. The two men arm themselves and set off for the Trojan camp. A heron sent by Athena calls out on their right-hand side, and they pray to Athena for protection.

Meanwhile, the Trojans devise their own acts of reconnaissance. Hector wants to know if the Achaeans plan an escape. He selects Dolon, an unattractive but lightning-quick man, to serve as his scout, and promises to reward him with Achilles’ chariot and horses once the Achaeans fall. Dolon sets out and soon encounters Diomedes and Odysseus. The two men interrogate Dolon, and he, hoping to save his life, tells them the positions of the Trojans and all of their allies. He reveals to them that the Thracians, newly arrived, are especially vulnerable to attack. Diomedes then kills Dolon and strips him of his armor.

The two Achaean spies proceed to the Thracian camp, where they kill twelve soldiers and their king, Rhesus. They also steal Rhesus’s chariot and horses. Athena warns them that some angry god may wake the other soldiers; Diomedes and Odysseus thus ride Rhesus’s chariot back to the Achaean camp. Nestor and the other Greeks, worried that their comrades had been killed, greet them warmly..."

"....Spartans were among the first fighting forces to recognize the importance of spycraft and infiltration. The kryptea, a specially-trained unit, functioned as something between a spy agency and a secret police, keeping an eye on the conquered territories and on the troops at home. The Spartan empire, though small compared to world empires, was large compared to those of their neighbors. They held it for hundreds of years. This was not an accident..."

Kal, I get it why some of you are against espionage. It makes operations and warfare incredible complicated. It adds a level of complexity that many people can not handle.

I understand why Jim was against spies. His military operations were really master plans. If we would have spies infiltrated those operations would have been easily defeated and we would not have been able to beat you like an old drum.

There is nothing moral or immoral about spying. It is part of warfare since ancient history, however, not many people can handle the devastating emotional and tactical effects of spies. That's all.


So stop the crap, and man up. This is warfare and spies are part of it whether you like it or not.
 

Ares8793

Hekatontarch
oh well... it does not surprise me the revisionism and distortion of history that you engage in order to desperately attempt to support your senseless point.

The Gods even helped humans when engaging in espionage. Have you ever read the Illiad or heard of the Kryptea?

"....The Greek commanders sleep well that night, with the exception of Agamemnon and Menelaus. Eventually, they rise and wake the others. They convene on open ground, on the Trojan side of their fortifications, to plan their next move. Nestor suggests sending a spy to infiltrate the Trojan ranks, and Diomedes quickly volunteers for the role. He asks for support, and Odysseus steps forward. The two men arm themselves and set off for the Trojan camp. A heron sent by Athena calls out on their right-hand side, and they pray to Athena for protection.

Meanwhile, the Trojans devise their own acts of reconnaissance. Hector wants to know if the Achaeans plan an escape. He selects Dolon, an unattractive but lightning-quick man, to serve as his scout, and promises to reward him with Achilles’ chariot and horses once the Achaeans fall. Dolon sets out and soon encounters Diomedes and Odysseus. The two men interrogate Dolon, and he, hoping to save his life, tells them the positions of the Trojans and all of their allies. He reveals to them that the Thracians, newly arrived, are especially vulnerable to attack. Diomedes then kills Dolon and strips him of his armor.

The two Achaean spies proceed to the Thracian camp, where they kill twelve soldiers and their king, Rhesus. They also steal Rhesus’s chariot and horses. Athena warns them that some angry god may wake the other soldiers; Diomedes and Odysseus thus ride Rhesus’s chariot back to the Achaean camp. Nestor and the other Greeks, worried that their comrades had been killed, greet them warmly..."

"....Spartans were among the first fighting forces to recognize the importance of spycraft and infiltration. The kryptea, a specially-trained unit, functioned as something between a spy agency and a secret police, keeping an eye on the conquered territories and on the troops at home. The Spartan empire, though small compared to world empires, was large compared to those of their neighbors. They held it for hundreds of years. This was not an accident..."

Kal, I get it why some of you are against espionage. It makes operations and warfare incredible complicated. It adds a level of complexity that many people can not handle.

I understand why Jim was against spies. His military operations were really master plans. If we would have spies infiltrated those operations would have been easily defeated and we would not have been able to beat you like an old drum.

There is nothing moral or immoral about spying. It is part of warfare since ancient history, however, not many people can handle the devastating emotional and tactical effects of spies. That's all.

Next time that you complain about spies remember that it is thank to them that you do not speak German and every morning you are not doing a Nazi salute. British and German spies were the ones that saved great Britain as their information, codes, and infiltration turn the tide in the Battle of the Atlantic.
So stop the bullshit, and man up. This is warfare and spies are part of it whether you like it or not.


Yes, you could argue that spies were necessary to win the war, however you must remember that that was mankinds largest war against an evil dictatorship whilst grepolis is a game played for fun. Spies in grepolis are always looked down upon and do not make the game fun for either side.

If you have it in you, please just fight with some honour and chivalry, respect your enemies. You never know, they might become allies in a new world!
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
Yes, you could argue that spies were necessary to win the war, however you must remember that that was mankinds largest war against an evil dictatorship whilst grepolis is a game played for fun. Spies in grepolis are always looked down upon and do not make the game fun for either side.

If you have it in you, please just fight with some honour and chivalry, respect your enemies. You never know, they might become allies in a new world!
1) You know Ares. I can live and respect that argument.
If people like Kal would bring this point instead of distorting history and spewing pure crap, then I would be fine with it.
If you think that the game becomes too complicated and less fun, then I would not be contradicting you. I do understand and agree that having spies and counter spies make the game a bit of nightmare.

However, when I start read the crap and distortion of history and ethics about espionage, then I lose it.

2) I must say this. Kal does not seem to have the insight that I am actually helping you guys. I brought it here to warn you that somebody is betraying you. I even gave you the island of where the information is coming from.

Island 61657

To be honest, you guys have been such jerks to us and so deceitful that we do not trust you. We have enough information and evidence to believe that most of the information was a trick to move our troops from key position.

We will never know for sure, but my gut feeling is that these people are trying to deceive us rather than really helping us.

Sometimes I wonder if it might be Kal himself behind all these tricks. Perhaps he is a nice person, but there is no need to be such a butt to me, Jim, and TheAlga and our leadership.

3) Just try to see it from our side, and you will see that you have been really nasty and hurtful to us.
 
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Kal Gordon

Phrourach
h well... it does not surprise me the revisionism and distortion of history that you engage in order to desperately attempt to support your senseless point.
There was no distortion of history. I merely stated that my dual nationality allows me to view Washington from two different perspectives.

The Gods even helped humans when engaging in espionage. Have you ever read the Illiad or heard of the Kryptea?
The Trojan war is renowned because the Greek gods split and chose sides. And as I said above, the gods are often depicted as above human ethics.

Kal, I get it why some of you are against espionage. It makes operations and warfare incredible complicated. It adds a level of complexity that many people can not handle.
It adds an extra level of complexity, yes. But this is a game, and we play to have fun, not to distrust one another. As I have said before, it really doesn't help the game experience to wonder who is telling the truth about what.

I understand why Jim was against spies. His military operations were really master plans. If we would have spies infiltrated those operations would have been easily defeated and we would not have been able to beat you like an old drum.
I have seen no proof that Jim is against spies. All we have seen of him have been 2 betrayals, and a decent amount of nuke-golding.

There is nothing moral or immoral about spying. It is part of warfare since ancient history, however, not many people can handle the devastating emotional and tactical effects of spies. That's all.
It is not an intended part of the game. If you look, the game already has an espionage mechanic, for finding out information about the enemy. That's how they wanted to include espionage and use of spies, not by having players betray one another.

Next time that you complain about spies remember that it is thank to them that you do not speak German and every morning you are not doing a Nazi salute. British and German spies were the ones that saved great Britain as their information, codes, and infiltration turn the tide in the Battle of the Atlantic.
Again, that is real life, this is a game. Plus, the battle of the Atlantic was largely unethical anyways, as it was basically the Germans targeted Allied merchant shipping vessels.

So stop the bullshit, and man up. This is warfare and spies are part of it whether you like it or not.
Part of real warfare, yes. An intended part of this game, which we play for fun, no.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
Jim was against spying.
Kal: I hope that after this you act as a decent human being and accept that you are wrong about Jim on this one.

"Jimbobicus85
Jimbobicus85 on 2017-04-18 at 17:16
Thermopylae-ans,

It has come to our attention that there is a bit of spying going on with intel being passed between Imperium and us. I know that many people might be unaware of this, but when forming this alliance, one of our founding principles was that we do not spy on the enemy. Even if they spy on us, we want to win the game fair without reverting to such tactics. Besides the moral issues, I believe we are good enough to win without using such tactics.

To allow us to get a handle on the situation, please let leadership know of any spying you have been involved with in the past. This is a complete amnesty for people to admit to any past indiscretions so we know what we are dealing with.

Leadership"
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
If people like Kal would bring this point instead of distorting history and spewing pure bullshit, then I would be fine with it.
You mean you didn't read any of my points about reputation, community and this being a game for fun?

However, when I start read the bullshit and distortion of history and ethics about espionage, then I lose it.
And if your claim was true (distortion of history and ethics, which I have not done), then how would it be any different to your masses of PnPs that have no evidence, or have evidence that is severely distorted?

2) I must say this. Kal does not seem to have the insight that I am actually helping you guys. I brought it here to warn you that somebody is betraying you. I even gave you the island of where the information is coming from.
As you said to us yourself, it is being sent from a separate account. So you didn't really tell us anything about where the actual leak is. And for the record, you brought it here to brag about it. Anyone who read your initial posts about it would agree.

To be honest, you guys have been such jerks to us and so deceitful that we do not trust you.
We could say the same about Thermopylae, only we would actually have evidence to prove our claims about you.

We have enough information and evidence to believe that most of the information was a trick to move our troops from key position.


We will never know for sure, but my gut feeling is that these people are trying to deceive us rather than really helping us.

Sometimes I wonder if it might be Kal himself behind all these tricks.

As fun as that sounds, I don't know whether the information is true or false, and I certainly had no hand in it's dissemination. If you are willing to stoop to the levels of using leaked information, it would serve you right if you lost out because of using it.


Perhaps he is a nice person, but there is no need to be such an *** to me, Jim, and TheAlga and our leadership.
Let's see:
- Jim attempted the biggest political backstabbing of the server. He also attempted to betray his own teammates by offering to pass information to the enemy for personal benefit. That has been proven. While he may have been against spying (I never directly said he was involved, I believe), it does not change the fact that he has created a reputation for himself of being untrustworthy, due to backstabbing both a pact and his own teammates.
- TheAlgarvian - I have seen how he supposedly leads, having played in the alliance "Pandora" on Selymbria. He did absolutely nothing until I was brought in and his role came under threat. In fact, I was mainly brought into leadership there because Al was doing nothing.
- Thermopylae leadership hasn't handled itself exceptionally well. Jim in the ways described above (although he is no longer a leader, I am informed), Al by attempting to push around two of his pacts, and in general by the failure to uphold the promised peace period before the war with REPO, and through trying to lure players from their enemies despite their publicity person proclaiming them as the white knights of the server.
- You (Futbol) - you came on these externals specifically to write PnPs. All your PnPs are designed to smear our reputations, and include personal and alliance-wide accusations towards us, especially towards those of us who are leaders. You specifically targeted Virdian, accusing him of lying, when you knew it was your own player at fault. You continually depict us as the "dark forces", as "tyrants", etc, yet we have done no worse than in Thermo, and in some cases they have behaved worse than us. You continually say that we can't be right because you have more cities, which is an arrogant and insulting way of debating something.

3) Just try to see it from our side, and you will see that you have been really nasty and hurtful to us.
I suggest that you take a look at your own PnPs. If you look on these forums, you will find that we did not start openly criticising Thermopylae until after you had written numerous slanderous PnPs against us. You have insulted us, demeaned us, lied, and twisted what little amount of factual information you do have. And now you seek to accuse us of being in the wrong. Pull the other one.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
so are you going to ignore the evidence that Jim was against spies?
Nope. Did you not read my post?

While he may have been against spying (I never directly said he was involved, I believe), it does not change the fact that he has created a reputation for himself of being untrustworthy, due to backstabbing both a pact and his own teammates.
Anyways, I would be justified in ignoring it. You have ignored every piece of evidence that we have given you to prove that your claims are false. Good job on ignoring all my other points, by the way. Very subtle. ;)
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
Nope. Did you not read my post?



Anyways, I would be justified in ignoring it. You have ignored every piece of evidence that we have given you to prove that your claims are false. Good job on ignoring all my other points, by the way. Very subtle. ;)
Do you realize that you not interested in finding the truth about Jim? A fair an decent human being would acknowledge that he was wrong about a person after reading such an email. You are really a piece of work.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
I realise that Jim has sent out one MM on behalf of Thermopylae leadership, that discourages spying. I also realise that this is the same player who attempted to betray a pact (ITM) while he was in The Exiles, and attempted to betray his Thermopylae teammates by offering information to the enemy. So basing it on those 3 events, I can see that he personally tried to betray people twice, and acted against spying as part of a group decision. That's a fair and objective analysis.

If you are calling me a piece of work, I suggest you look at yourself and all the PnPs that you have written. Funny how you didn't reply to that part of my post.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
GNN (Grepolis News Network)
Moving Truth Forward

Welcome to Mesembria's Most Read and Most Trusted News Network.​

Extra! Extra! Extra!
Important and skilled players join Thermopylae. Members of the number 1 alliance are delighted to know experienced commanders have decided to join them in the battle for freedom, peace, and honour. For example, Commander XxCHAOSxX420 left Repo with all his cities and forces. The statistics show a massive exodus from Repo as we speak.

Our correspondents on the field are trying to find more information for you. The are also rumours that a player named "Markov" has been missleading and lying to the coalition. This is still unverified. It is just word of mouth from travellers from distant lands.

 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
GNN (Grepolis News Network)
Moving Truth Forward

Welcome to Mesembria's Most Read and Most Trusted News Network.​

On August 12th, a major even occurred in Mesembria. The strongest alliance of the coalition imploded. A massive exodus of the strongest players took place. Some just left the alliance; others decided to join Thermopylae in the fight for freedom, peace, prosperity, and honour.

Thermopylae grew by a massive 1.898.163 points.


Alliance Points +
Thermopylae 1.898.163
Atlantis Imperials 33.258
HEROES 30.289
Atlantis Mallorean 25.473
Heavenly Myrmidons 10.038

Alliance Points -
REPO -1.626.659
Imperium -63.401
CARPE DIEM -30.452
BlackListed -13.852
A Touch of Class -4.173

A fighter who left the alliance, and wishes to remain in anonymous explained: "...we were upset about all the back stabs we had in the alliance and the coalition..."
another stated how they were exploited : "...only a few of us did all the work ...was so much"

In the core, citizens and commanders welcome and celebrated the arrival of the new members of the alliance.

A major diplomatic victory for the leaders of Thermopylae in negotiating this successful transition.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
A massive exodus of the strongest players took place. Some just left the alliance; others decided to join Thermopylae in the fight for freedom, peace, prosperity, and honour.
Screenshot_988.png
So 6 players leaving an alliance of 80 players is a "mass exodus"? You couldn't exaggerate more if you tried.

Also, I will add that if Thermopylae is an alliance fighting for "freedom, peace, prosperity and honour" they are doing a very good job of hiding it. One former leader has developed a reputation for backstabbing, while a current leader was a political bully towards his allies, and has shown himself to be a self-serving leader in terms of internal affairs. Their unofficial propaganda officer regularly makes harsh accusations without a shred of proof, and relies on personal attacks and insults in order to "win" any debate once it is proven that his original claims were lies.

For some reason, Futbol's stats appear to include alliances far outside the Top 12. Given that he regards other Top 12 alliances as irrelevant, one wonders why he would include the statistics for an alliance as low as 79th.
 

Kannerak

Chiliarch
I think he just copy pasted that off modscripts kal not as if he purposely made sure that alliance was listed there
 

Rachel.L

Phrourach
those are the numbers from yesterday for repo according to grepointel
yes, today more have followed
but as of my post, i was correct
not recanting anything

since you are "too busy" in game to send me proof of spies and traitors, why are you harassing me here about numbers from a source i have previously shown to be correct
rather than say, hey more have followed, you'd had to be a jerk about it
if you wish to return to your old ways of bothering me with propaganda rather than facts, then i will no longer assist you in your cause