Gold Exchange Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'The Acropolis' started by Baudin Toolan, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Baudin Toolan

    Baudin Toolan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    If you have any feedback or questions on the new change to the gold trading system please post them here in this thread.
     
  2. Heres20BuckKillMe

    Heres20BuckKillMe Phrourach

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Same one as they use on Tribal Wars? Will be interesting to see how it works on Grepo
     
  3. Baudin Toolan

    Baudin Toolan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Yeah it's the same concept.
     
  4. Rachel.L

    Rachel.L Phrourach

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    I see one problem with this concept, or at least I can't see how to do it from the wiki. In the old system, you could gift gold to alliance members by directing exchanges through the market. Now there is no way to do that.
     
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  5. MissusR

    MissusR Phrourach

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    That may even be a small advantage. Some players are reluctant to accept gold directly but would likely be glad of extra resources so they can sell to gold exchange.
     
  6. molinillo

    molinillo Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    It works the other way around:
    To donate (after the market limit was reached) they have to buy resources first and only then can the other sell resources and get gold, so if players alert their friend before or when they buy the other has good chance to be the first to sell and get gold.
    For example: I bought 2335 stone for 50 gold and after that this offer appeared:
    upload_2019-4-10_8-53-45.png

    For me the big question is whether the gold exchange will ever get cheap enough for buyers to stop the black market deals (when players offer extra resources above the market limit for same gold).
    In gold trade the limit is 2000 resources for 50 gold but you could get 2500 - 5000 for 50 gold on the 'black market'.
    I wonder if there is a cap when the price cannot go lower. We can hardly see from the Beta test how well it is balanced, on a more popular live market world prices may become really low, because after each exchange the next will need more resources. On beta it started with 2000 resources per 50 gold, now buyer gets ~2300, seller sends ~2500. I assume it will be at least harder work to offer extra resources, but will it be worth to try?

    My concern with gold trade was and still is with gold exchange that there is seemingly no control over how much resources one can buy, for example a daily limit.
    Unfortunately in both systems the players who provide more resources for gold than as intended in game (above market limits) are responsible for the extra pay-to-win advantages too. The more resources the faster growth and more population, then during the next event more myths and even more firepower... it all starts with the early extra resources gifts.

    I think the direct trade between players should be paused at least during beginner protection, or maybe the first few weeks too. I would love to see how rankings would transform if everyone could only use the resources that they farmed or paid for, no special gifts for gold, no gifts from sister accounts, from friends who only joined 'to help 1-2 weeks then gift their cities too'...

    It is good that the direct gold trades will be stopped at least, less likely that players would try to sell cities or offer services such as spam for gold... I may be too optimistic, but that was the low end of gold trade and I heard about enough precedents for both.

    The gold exchange for sure will help to spread the available resources better instead of allowing players to feed only the popular buyers and there is some hope that the gold will be shared between more sellers instead of those getting most who offer extra.
     
  7. Rachel.L

    Rachel.L Phrourach

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    But, morg, b/c the market price is set by the ocean, again, I don't see how you can set your own price to "give" the gold. If a small player can't meet the market value b/c of a small whs or just lack of resources, I don't understand how this can work to player advantage. Maybe ig it makes more sense.
     
  8. molinillo

    molinillo Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    You're right, players can only donate gold within same ocean, most likely it was not priority to allow gold gifts but the system is flexible enough, they didn't disable it (as soon as a player bought resources it is possible to sell - a random cooldown could give chance others and prevent coordination between 2 players who want to gift gold for resources). In practice players who wanted to donate gold to selected friends usually invited them to be as close as possible, players who want to continue the friendly trades will find their ways...

    It is also necessary to have different prices per ocean. Worlds fill up from center out. When a player spawns in O64 and begin to build another in O55 has already developed cities with higher level market and resources needs. If there was free trade between all oceans and the price was standard then the players that started early would have already pumped up the resources costs of exchange and new joiners from rim oceans could hardly participate. So the different price promotes that the gold and resources are shared between those players that join at same stage. (According to WIKI it isn't an entirely closes system: each day, Exchanges on other oceans will also shift around capacity and stock to mitigate differences in their trading rates...)

    Biggest advantage may be that gold traders don't have to join anymore right when a server opens, they can wait for a safer location and fight less for survival as they only have to be in the right ocean - trade time doesn't matter in gold exchange. Maybe they don't get gold from their best friend but they get from someone else...
     
  9. Rachel.L

    Rachel.L Phrourach

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Everything you say makes sense and I understand the system. I just think that since the market was the only way to get gold to allies , whereas everything else can be given directly, this seems like one more thing to make it harder to support friends.
     
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  10. monkey trouble

    monkey trouble Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    It is still possible for 2 players to sort of trade directly if they both get cities in a far away ocean with no other players. Certainly not as easy as before, but still doable.
     
  11. OutOfCharacters

    OutOfCharacters Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    When this launched in beta, it worked as I feared it would-- there was a "skimming" off the top from what you put in to what you pay to get it out. Inno claims this is due to supply and demand, along with a taxation of sorts to level things out across oceans. I have a hard time with the concept of restricting free trade and forcing us to use a centralized bank with prices that inno gets to set, first for them to purchase it, and then again for them to sell it. Players don't see where that excess goes. I'd like to see an audit after the first month tracking the financials of it all... I have a feeling if released, it would outrage many users to see how much drops in Inno's pockets.

    It's hard for me to see this as anything but another money grab to skim gold off of the players. Time will tell, I guess. Sooner or later inno's taxes will get too high for its community.

    Anyone know how we'd go about asking for those financial stats? And of course, to find out who the third-party auditor would be... ;)
     
  12. Vranac-

    Vranac- Hekatontarch

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    well i have a hard time trading any res without gold whores expecting any bonuses and dictating prices and who they give gold to, this balances out most if not all the problems with current gold trade system, 11% tax is made as a safety feature for people not to get free unlimited gold within minutes trying to screw the bank, they have tested it quite enough on beta to see what works and what needs to be slightly changed before pushing it to live markets, if you do not know how the central bank works then please dont bash at inno, they are not filling their pockets with the tax, look at it this way.. you can sell your resources to the bank and you get your gold regardless of whether someone buys it or not, that is the other reason why they introduced the tax.

    Only people having issues with this update are gold whores who depend on quick growth and unjust bonuses that they dictate giving their gold to select few traders they make black deals with.
     
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  13. wareagle1983

    wareagle1983 Hekatontarch

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Ruin everything smh i better still be able to earn the 3K gold per day minimum I was making with the gold trading feature!!!!! why does Inno always mess up a good thing?:mad:
     
  14. OutOfCharacters

    OutOfCharacters Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    You’re right, my response sounds a bit harsh. I hate insta build, insta buy in events...all of it. But it’s the world we have to play in. But this change feels like it adds handcuffs to both buyers and sellers without addressing the real issue. So IMO its fixing a problem that doesn’t exist when there are others needing more attention.

    But at its core, using a currency an entity creates, and then controls how it’s used between players inside of a black box that alters payouts... would you bank there IRL? I hope not.

    I’d be happier with it if we were told all the gold value went somewhere on the server to players via the tax, and when the world ended, any excess was divided up among last stand players, maybe based on city count. Like a credit union hahaha...proceeds to the people in it.

    It’s the nondescript black hole that doesn’t sit right with me- as buyer or seller.
     
  15. Kratos Giantsbane

    Kratos Giantsbane Hipparchus

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Looks more like a "You blink, You miss" system!
     
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  16. Shuri2060

    Shuri2060 Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    k so I'm kinda disappointed by this. Am I getting this wrong, or there's a capacity for the entire ocean??? [​IMG]

    1. 60k is a tiny amount for one ocean
    2. So a capacity encourages trade ninjas who check for space 24/7? As soon as there's space, put res in? Now the rest of us casual gold traders who log once a day don't get anything.

    A suggestion if this implementation continues: Set tab (Buy/Sell) selected when last closed the default tab when you reopen this. Benefits players who generally buy/generally sell. Quite easy to make mistakes with the current layout - the contents inside the 2 tabs are identical.

    Lastly, is gold stored as a float value on the system? Otherwise, players are losing out on resources they could buy when typing in a round number (unless they bother slowly incrementing until they find the most resources they can get for say 40 gold)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
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  17. VladimirVonEire

    VladimirVonEire Chiliarch

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    This is a measure designed to reward very active players who will keep checking the exchange minute by minute. This is just going to push casual players away that rely on gold trading to compete without the need to spend money. We'll be left with an even smaller player base.
     
  18. Shuri2060

    Shuri2060 Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    I also just realised - is there not an advantage to traders who happen to spawn near ocean borders? They'll naturally colonize so they get access to 2 oceans' exchanges.
     
  19. SBLII Champs

    SBLII Champs Hekatontarch

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2018
    Someone will have to explain to me how this isn't just a huge money grab by Inno...


    When res is at 10k within the exchange, the price to buy is ~134 for 5k res. The selling price says its about ~115... then the 'best match' ends up being about ~111.

    By my math, that's about 23 gold that's just being skimmed right off the top by Inno. I get that they are a business and are in this business to make a profit, but this single buyer system sure seems like a way to crook the books and (honestly) embezzle gold from buyers. And quite frankly, its not even that covert, its fairly in your face about it.
     
  20. SBLII Champs

    SBLII Champs Hekatontarch

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2018
    Not a black hole. The difference in cost to purchase, versus offer to sell is obvious. The difference goes to Inno's bottom line.
     
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