Harbingers Declaration of Support


and nick i did say i was stepping back and letting you take the lead but that didnt mean i said go ahead and betray doa because the harbs tend to think that everything they do is ok and if we do something remotely close we are traitors...hmmmmm, some people need to step outside the box and say WOW, if we are calling them traitors, then we must be traitors ourselves
What you have presented here is an illogical statement. If I was taking lead and it was my choice - you failed to state that it had to be your way, so it wasn't really my choice.

Dysen, have you ever bought a new car? It is simple - when you buy something you negotiate. when you agree to a pact, you negotiate. That is how it goes.

Since you won't talk to me, I will put out here for everyone to read.

I was negotiating with DoA. I had broken no pacts.

To prove it, I will tell you the tactics I was using:

First, I used the better off technique. Look at my message, I said EotD would be better off with Harbs and Honey Badgers than with DoA. This was combined with the cards on the table technique - I stating a case clearly. Of which I did.

Second, I used the biased choice technique. All of my choices presented to DoA already included my bias. So they would have to think about it, and figure out how to remove my bias for the choices.

Third I used the two techniques at the same time - "Break it off and Bluff" - EotD will walk away unless negotiations continue in our favor. It is called a Bluff to get leverage. Without leverage you don't get the best deal.

Fourth, I used the "widows and orphans" technique - showing the results of these wars on our players - to draw into a sympathy point of view, from the other party.

Fifth - I used the new issue - presented Tribulus kicking our diplomat because he lost a city. Why use a new issue, to take diversion away from the real issue - so I could what?!

Use the sixth technique FAKING! I faked that was the issue I was upset about, so I could concede the new issue for a favorable stance in the real issue. I presented a biased argument and DoA took the bait. Instead of arguing with me about the real topic, we were arguing about something else. Something that I would concede to them, so they would feel obligated to concede something to me.

My next moves were going to be lawyer, deadlines, and shotgun. I already started divide and conquer and incremental conversion.

Until you ruined negotiations Dysen - of which you did - I was in the process of getting a better deal for EotD. I stated I would pull out of the pact with DoA - and I would have as a LAST possible choice, only as a negotiation tactic.

All of this, was to give EotD leverage. Instead of letting it play its course. Instead of letting me handle these conversations - you had a freak out.

If you would have yielded to me, even as nothing other than a diplomat, the issue would be resolved right now.

If you are so insistent that this is the best deal for EotD. Why not make the deal and the terms of EotD entering the DoA family public? For everyone to read?

I know I personally invalidated three of them. But what are the other ones? what is the full agreement? Can you at least share that?

Instead, you have let the server know that you are in DoA's back pocket regarding all issues. I ask you to join DoA. Take those in EotD loyal to you over to DoA. But before you do, offer them real explanation, with the truth, of everything that happened. Don't delete messages because they are not in your favor. You have turned into a despot. I am a despot involving Diplomacy, as all nations are. But not in terms of running the internals of an alliance. At the very least, change your name back to Legion of Ares and show your true colors.
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What a surprise, Nwinder gets upset when he's not in total control. :p


bah, Eotd fights HB to protect DoA? no offence last i seen/heard HB were walking right trough Eotd. No disrespect to Dysen your messages here are seeming more and more like the fallen guy. I seen someone here, (cant remember who and frankly dont care) say that Eotd offers a hand to harbs who want out. Why would any of us want out? Answer me that. If i remember correct, we waited for you to attack us. At least we did in the O26/16 area. thats when we get the conquest attempt on one of our members (by whom is now not a part of Eotd/CA) and i received a shocking light ship attack to my city in O25. thats when our part of delta attacked you.


does Nwinder think he will control all of delta ?
To the contrary. I told dysen, that even though he might not be controlled by his lady that the server thinks it. For this one time, for this choice - it should be made by parties outside of Dysen and Merry. He agreed. After this was all over - he would be back in full force.

I am not upset because I did not have control over the alliance. I am upset because I was told to make this choice - to make the choice best for EotD. I held countless meetings. And in the end? He only wanted what he wanted is willing to kill his alliance because he wants support in o34 and wants to stay with DoA in an agreement that NO ONE from EotD has even seen.

If not for my prevention - Baby jules would be a leader in EotD. Merry and Kristo would be in charge of EotD. I was told, point blank, by merry that my leader was Kristo.

When I tried to fix the relationship with the harbingers - I talked to Kristo about it - who is supposedly our leader - and instead get this:

[11/22/2011 8:46:07 PM] Nicholas Winder: Sure I am - I do not need approval of every leader in the Ares family to make diplomatic actions for my own alliance.
[11/22/2011 8:46:21 PM] Merry Williams: no u dont
[11/22/2011 8:46:24 PM] Merry Williams: i didnt say that
[11/22/2011 8:46:26 PM] Nicholas Winder: so I talked to Kris
[11/22/2011 8:46:30 PM] Nicholas Winder: why did I have to talk to you?
[11/22/2011 8:47:02 PM] Merry Williams: if you want me to fill in our team on anything and make everyone askig kosher....how am i spose to say everythings final if i dont know???

Now if Kristo is the leader? and we are supposed to bow down to Kristo - why do I have to tell anything to Merry? Doesn't Kristo tell merry, not me?! If EotD is supposed to be standing on its own and making its own diplomacy - why in the world do I have to speak anyone, let alone Kristo? Looking at this from every, single angle - it does not make sense.

[11/22/2011 8:49:02 PM] Nicholas Winder: I thought pulling out of the pact with honey badgers was a mistake - as diplomacy requires legacy
[11/22/2011 8:49:11 PM] Nicholas Winder: We are fully pacted with the Ares family
[11/22/2011 8:49:17 PM] Merry Williams: yes
[11/22/2011 8:49:22 PM] Merry Williams: and it will stay that way?
[11/22/2011 8:49:28 PM] Merry Williams: no more harbs talks?
[11/22/2011 8:49:30 PM] Nicholas Winder: My conversation with the Harbgingers was to get The Harbs to focus on The Black Huns
[11/22/2011 8:49:33 PM] Merry Williams: til then i cannot move forward

And Straight from her mouth - EotD cannot be friends with the Harbs under her watch. Even though Kristo gave me the go ahead.

So I ask, who is in charge of EotD and who is in charge of DoA?

Why is everything contrary? Why does Kristo tell me something and Merry changes it? Why does Dysen tell me something and Merry changes it?

Take two seconds - who is in real power here? Don't people still stand on their two feet? Are Dysen and Kristo just puppets? Or, are Merry and Dysen just puppets for Kristo? These are all serious questions - that I do not see anyone even attempting to answer.
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Imperica? Is it so funny that Tribulus asks us to have you as the DoA liaison? After outing our liason from DoA alliance for losing a city. Even funnier, you are now, from half way across the world - trying to get EotD to kill me.

Pretty clever, you are all part of the DoA ploy. Notice how when facts are dropped, you disappear?

Very clever mate.

you came to this alliance about the same time Dysen started talking with DoA.

I am starting to doubt your story of joining because of an old invite from TicTac. Very clever. I had personally deleted all of our invites several times.


Imperica? Is it so funny that Tribulus asks us to have you as the DoA liaison? After outing our liason from DoA alliance for losing a city. Even funnier, you are now, from half way across the world - trying to get EotD to kill me.

Pretty clever, you are all part of the DoA ploy. Notice how when facts are dropped, you disappear?

Very clever mate.

you came to this alliance about the same time Dysen started talking with DoA.

I am starting to doubt your story of joining because of an old invite from TicTac. Very clever. I had personally deleted all of our invites several times.
Funny but you say ours as if you are still there? Just an observation, but I dont think everything is as you have portrayed it. Every time I think you are going to be civil, you dissapoint.


Tyrell T was plainly either A) not online when I CS'd him or B) just felt he couldn't deal with what came his way. There was a few k of biremes on that siege quite quickly.

My policy is to kick players who do not report a siege but that is on the third strike. Always operate a three strike rule. People in a new alliance might feel a little intimidated. He may have taken the line it was lost by the time he came online to it. I don't know. All I know is you give people the chance to err to a level.

In fact I only CS'd him because of his cheeky reply when I pointed out to him he had abused his status as diplomat. I had left him alone because I tend to not hit a diplo as a rule. When he told me rather arrogantly he, like the rest of EotD, were part of the Ares family, and he was now permanent DoA...well...call it a red rag to a bull. I told him he had abused my decency towards him as EotD diplomat and now he was part of the new Ares leadership set up...he could pay the price.

So there is my side of the tale.

PS. Imperica was defo part of the play. This goes back to before the bust up with Ionians / Ares. Then again...Nick should know.


Is it any shocker Imperica is now in DoA?

And Cronos, where have I not been civil here?

Lead to one thing that proves me not being civil. Have you got one? When have I insulted anyone, or anything of the sort.

Again - the truth of Delta is simple. No one wants the truth. People will avoid the truth, at all costs.

Just tell the truth and move on. Everything I do gets to be looked over and criticized by everyone on the server. Lead me to one time I have lied - or not told the truth as it was told to me?

I may have passed on someone else's lie. In fact, I do that quite often. I might even play along with their lie. But when have I actually lied? I may have been wrong before. But being wrong is not lying.

Oh, and Cronos - why not set the record straight? Why not come out with the truth, if it is not how I see it - and provide the proof - I will gladly admit I am wrong and bow out.

Dec. 8 - upgrade to 2.0. Who wants to take the bet that the alliance, Disciples of Ares, grows by at least 50 members before, on or near that date?

Anyone comfortable taking the bet they won't?

Anyone want to guess why Imperica is now in DoA and not EotD - why Trib and Merry wanted him? 808 | 521

I wonder what cities of mine DoA has told EotD to take - would they happen to be on these two islands? 268 | 537 342 | 593
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2 alliances already have their 4 (or more) wonder islands in place. If you work out who it is you will understand why there has been so much pnp recently.

nwinder. I haven't checked those islands out but if they want them of course they'd have to attack you (I assume your towns are blocking). It was your decision to go solo, your decision to break up EotD wonder islands. Look to yourself before seeking to blame everyone else.


Indeed Nwinder does have cities on EOTD wonder islands and through his own selfishness has put a major spanner in EOTD's wonder plans.

When I first left DOA the first thing I did was arrange the handover of my towns on DOA wonder islands to DOA. It was the right thing to do. But Nwinder is selfish and doesn't know the difference between right and wrong.


Not only that Nick.

The Onions madman who claims they once owned 53 (never so - ask any OTC or Killers or Ares and they will all say that 53 is OTC and was OTC Killers) is now saying everyone must bow down to DoA.

Have a read:

vengence1 today at 9:47 PM
Scorps are going down with you :) I seen the exchanges between you and Scorp leadership, they were reluctant to side with you but did decide to attack tarzar...going to be a big oops on their part, especially if they don't bow down to DoA :) 53 was once mine when we were Ptolemites, we will be back in that saddle soon enough. I've spoken to Dysen. EoTD are on the opposite side of Delta, I do not fear them, they seem to be alright to me
They talk pap these morons. Lets kick their butts Delta. Have a read at Grepo stats. Look at the OTC and honey badgers and harbingers stats on colonizations/conquests. See how great the mighty are then.

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And that is from people who make such a noise about dictators and tyrants and bullies.

If you don't bow down to DoA you get war.

Then Total War it is all the way. Never. I mean NEVER will I bow down to THEM. I am a warrior, a man, not a sheep. All who fight need to fight. All who go 'baa' go 'baa' to Ares. I know what I am. What are you?
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Scratching my head...Dune, why should V1 fear EotD? They are on the opposite side of the war, They cant get out of Ocean 35. And if they do to try they will have to go through HB, Huns and soon Harbs..Just to get to you and the other guys.I dont see that happening.