Inactive Topic Idea- Two new battleships

[DeletedUser21392]

Proposal:
To add two new battleships (Pentekontors and Quinquiremes) to be able to be built at the harbor.

Have you Checked the 'Do not suggest list/previously suggested ideas' in the 'Archive':
Yes

Reason:
As I have experienced, many players get tired of building the same old ships (Biremes, Triremes, and Light ships) for naval purposes every day. By adding these two new battleships, it will give players two new options for battleships and may aid some players playing style.

Details:
Pentekontors
Long, narrow ships, designed to go fast so they could overtake other ships and attack them. Pentekontors can work as extremely fast light ships that offer smaller attack but less pop. Slightly less efficient than light ships, but much faster.

Wood- 700
Stone- 150
Silver- 500
Pop- 7
Attack- 100
Defence- 40
Speed- 20

Quinquiremes
Strong battleships that had lead coatings on their bottoms to protect them against being rammed by enemy ships. Were heavy and hard to blow, making them very slow. Quinquiremes are much slower than biremes, making them bad support units, but are more efficient defence wise. Good for fortress cities.

Wood- 2000
Stone- 1200
Silver- 1500
Pop- 20
Attack- 100
Defence- 450
Speed- 5

Visual Aids
None

Balance
This update would affect gameplay, but not how the game functions. These new ships will be much better in certain scenarios than the traditional ships and have little downside. players will still be able to use old ships. This shall only be implemented on new worlds.

Abuse Prevention:
No abuse can be done.

 

[DeletedUser]

like it but they are just waste

 

[DeletedUser18132]

Hydras are almost like quinqueremes. The other ship, well, I don't think it is a very good idea, so I'm going to say no.

 

[DeletedUser]

quite an interesting idea imo

i haven't looked at the do not suggest list or anything (this kind of idea may or may not be there) but if it's not there then i think with a bit of refinement it could be quite interesting!

 

[DeletedUser17088]

I would love to see a mega fast attack ship brought to the game ( less attack points in favour of speed) and a huge 'self defence' ship

 

[DeletedUser]

My only problem is research. Players already have trouble figuring out what researches are best, and with the addition of two new units, you would also have two new researches. Love the idea and hope we can get them in the game, but I don't know how often they would be used.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd be in favour of this idea. Sounds very interesting.

I'll rep you for the effort you put into developing them.

 

[DeletedUser14226]

Nice idea I'd love to have new kinds of ships in the game. +rep. Just some of my opinions:

- I don't like the names.. sorry but they're long and there are better names for ships ( greek and ancient ships ) like galleys, dromond,.. but it depends on the developer

- Love the Pentekontors about the super fast speed. But isn't Quinquireme like the Fire Ship ? Fire ships are slow, but defence wise ( 1 fire ship can kill 1 LS ) and good for fortress.

 

[DeletedUser21392]

My only problem is research. Players already have trouble figuring out what researches are best, and with the addition of two new units, you would also have two new researches. Love the idea and hope we can get them in the game, but I don't know how often they would be used.

Thank you for pointing this out Sir. I have a few different ideas of what we could do.

I personally am in favor of adding these two researches in the academy for 8 RP each. It may put more stress on a player, but it will encourage the use of specialized cities.

Another option is putting them in the academy for no RP, but a very high cost. ex: 10000/10000/10000.

These ships could also be used in the Captain premium once your harbor reaches a certain level. I am not generally in favor of this idea, but it would be the easiest and earn Inno some money.

- I don't like the names.. sorry but they're long and there are better names for ships ( greek and ancient ships ) like galleys, dromond,.. but it depends on the developer

Read this: http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/greeks/science/sailing/warships.htm
These were the actual names for Greek warships ranging from 6-4 BC

 

[DeletedUser]

And what 2 researches would get taken out for these 2 if they where to go in academy? or would they have to make a lv 31? :/

 

[DeletedUser19554]

Proposal:
To add two new battleships (Pentekontors and Quinquiremes) to be able to be built at the harbor.

Have you Checked the 'Do not suggest list/previously suggested ideas' in the 'Archive':
Yes

Reason:
As I have experienced, many players get tired of building the same old ships (Biremes, Triremes, and Light ships) for naval purposes every day. By adding these two new battleships, it will give players two new options for battleships and may aid some players playing style.

Details:
Pentekontors
Long, narrow ships, designed to go fast so they could overtake other ships and attack them. Pentekontors can work as extremely fast light ships that offer smaller attack but less pop. Slightly less efficient than light ships, but much faster.

Wood- 700
Stone- 150
Silver- 500
Pop- 9
Attack- 100
Defence- 40
Speed- 25

Quinquiremes
Strong battleships that had lead coatings on their bottoms to protect them against being rammed by enemy ships. Were heavy and hard to blow, making them very slow. Quinquiremes are much slower than biremes, making them bad support units, but are more efficient defence wise. Good for fortress cities.

Wood- 2000
Stone- 1200
Silver- 1500
Pop- 20
Attack- 100
Defence- 450
Speed- 5

Visual Aids
None

Balance
This update would affect gameplay, but not how the game functions. These new ships will be much better in certain scenarios than the traditional ships and have little downside. players will still be able to use old ships. This shall only be implemented on new worlds.

Abuse Prevention:
No abuse can be done.

I love this idea i hope it gets implemeted

 

[DeletedUser21392]

And what 2 researches would get taken out for these 2 if they where to go in academy? or would they have to make a lv 31? :/

Yes, I have been thinking about this. Perhaps the academy can start off with 12 RP on the first level instead of 4. This would let you research atleast one ship (considering they are 8 RP each).

The only downside to this would be that players would be able to use the extra RP for other researches. I can't think of any better way to implement these for the moment.

 

[DeletedUser809]

First, I don't like the rationale. Introducing new units just for the sake of introducing new units is pointless.

Second, the Pentekontors are an interesting idea. Their primary use would be in hitting ls nukes in harbor. Outside of that I can't really see them serving much purpose. The problem I see with this is that the speed makes them overpowered. It's simply too fast for the game. With cartography and a lighthouse they would be so fast, faster even than any of the flying myth units, that defenders would have very little chance of logging in in time to dodge. And it's hard enough to build up an ls nuke as it is.

Third, the Quinquimeres are pointless. Bireme stacks are already incredibly strong. Fortress cities are already very difficult to penetrate. I think this would put too much power on the defensive side.

Lastly, there are no academy levels or resource costs listed for the ship techs.

Third

 

[DeletedUser18132]

Third what?

 

[DeletedUser21392]

First, I don't like the rationale. Introducing new units just for the sake of introducing new units is pointless.

Isnt that the point of introducing a new unit

Second, the Pentekontors are an interesting idea. Their primary use would be in hitting ls nukes in harbor. Outside of that I can't really see them serving much purpose. The problem I see with this is that the speed makes them overpowered. It's simply too fast for the game. With cartography and a lighthouse they would be so fast, faster even than any of the flying myth units, that defenders would have very little chance of logging in in time to dodge. And it's hard enough to build up an ls nuke as it is.

With Catography and ligthouse, the pentekonter would be just as fast as mythical units if not less.
http://wiki.en.grepolis.com/wiki/Units_Portal

Also, the point is for them to be very fast moving ships. As you pointed out, they are good for sniping enemy Light ships and Colony ships, and ideal for farming.

Third, the Quinquimeres are pointless. Bireme stacks are already incredibly strong. Fortress cities are already very difficult to penetrate. I think this would put too much power on the defensive side.

Lastly, there are no academy levels or resource costs listed for the ship techs.

These ships were meant to be incredibly strong. These ships strength is offset by its slow speed and so forth. In many situations i have faced, hundreds of my biremes were wiped out by a few light ship nukes.

This is a first draft, so I will get to the research costs once I have time.

 

[DeletedUser14437]

I like the idea.

 

[DeletedUser]

And what 2 researches would get taken out for these 2 if they where to go in academy? or would they have to make a lv 31? :/

perhaps they could replace the ever-lame fireships and triremes? just a thought...

as for the boats being too fast or too strong, maybe people could suggest some changes while pointing out the problems. ideas are best worked on by multiple people viewing the idea from different sides

 

[DeletedUser]

perhaps they could replace the ever-lame fireships and triremes? just a thought...

*Facepalm* Of course, that would be a good idea. I feel like an idiot for not thinking of that before. But still, people never use those techs so much that they might as well not even be on the research tree, and so there still would be a shortage of research points. I'm all in favor of more levels for the academy, and/or giving 5 points per level

 

[DeletedUser809]

Isnt that the point of introducing a new unit



With Catography and ligthouse, the pentekonter would be just as fast as mythical units if not less.
http://wiki.en.grepolis.com/wiki/Units_Portal

Also, the point is for them to be very fast moving ships. As you pointed out, they are good for sniping enemy Light ships and Colony ships, and ideal for farming.



These ships were meant to be incredibly strong. These ships strength is offset by its slow speed and so forth. In many situations i have faced, hundreds of my biremes were wiped out by a few light ship nukes.

This is a first draft, so I will get to the research costs once I have time.

NO. That is definitely not the point of introducing new units. The point is to add new dynamics to game play.

Your proposal is well thought out in terms of the costs and stats for the ships but I think these ships don't really add anything worthwhile to game play.

At speed 25 + 25% for lighthouse and cartography the Pentekonter would be the fastest unit in the game. The pegasus is a defensive unit so isn't relevant. The harpy is speed 25 but can only get a movement bonus of 10% from meteorology. Without lighthouse it would equal the speed of the Pentekonter which is cheap and requires no favor to produce. Being able to hit ls nukes at that speed is out of step with the pace of the game. There should be a reasonable possibility for players to dodge these kinds of attacks. This is especially true when you consider that ls nukes are slow to build and still often die at poor bp ratios against bireme stacks (ie. they give more abp to the defender than they gain for the attacker). Against anything else the pentekonter is useless and so would be a poor choice for farming with since the speed would be limited by your transports which ls are only slightly slower than and if you hit anything other than lightships or more pentekosters you're going to suffer big losses. The only scenario where they could be used for farming efficiently would be with Harpies but then harpies gain no benefit from being escorted by navy other than the element of surprise if they are spelled.

I understand that the quinquiremes are meant to be heavy and slow D. The concept might work IF you balanced it with some kind of slow but heavy attacking unit. As things stand defenders have the advantage already because they can stack and attackers can't. There is no need to make bireme stacks even stronger than they already are. A stack of 1000 or more biremes will eat a lot of ls nukes before going down and do so at good abp/dbp ratios, not to mention the massive bp that get made if the ls nukes fail to clear the harbor before land nukes start arriving.

I'm not trying to be negative here I just think you need to think through what element it is you're trying to introduce to the game before you start conceiving new units. Otherwise it just becomes new ships for the sake of having new ships and doesn't add anything new or desirable to the game.

 

[DeletedUser20429]

also what about world speed? the Pentekonter would have 75 speed on a speed 3 world 50 speed on a 2 speed world and 25 speed on a 1 speed world so maybe make them 25 speed for all speeds?