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Proposal:
Make WW achieved by beating mythical creatures instead of sending ressources.
Have you Checked the DNS and PSI lists in the Archives? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested?
Checked above 1000 threads (nearly 2 years of posting); several ideas around the endgame but not this one.
Reason:
The current WW process is largely unpopular. The fun in game goes with fighting for cities and territory, then it turns about clicking repetitively to send ressources to some island... Players don't recognize their game anymore.
From what I've seen: 1) In effect players leave quicker at this stage, especially amongst the active ones; 2) In alliances building WW, how many really send ressources? My guess is rarely over 10% (otherwise building would be much, much quicker). Such lack of interest in what will tell if they win or not, shows the current system is not best.
Looking for alternative solutions, I came to this one somewhat by elimination. Some recurrent proposals:
- Making WW done with ABP, overall BP, looting, or anything players win from fighting each other: runs into possibilities of under-table, against-spirit agreements between players, alliances, an alliance and its academy formed for this purpose, etc. We can't underestimate this when players have spent over a year on the game, and there's no sure way to distinguish real fighting from fake one.
- Awarding the win according to territory control objectives: alliances would rather colonize remote oceans and run away from the core. The game before WW would be even more boring than the current WW system; and if you make it only about core oceans, too many alliances would be out of it.
- Turning the endgame into destruction time, players wouldn't conquer but destroy cities, the last one standing wins. Quite likely, some simmer colonizing far away would win, not what we're looking for. I think this issue goes with any destructive end.
OTOH, there are also some good aspects in current WW, I'd like to keep them:
- It gives a goal and a way to win, in fact many players need it. A trial has been made to build a competitive world only about fighting, no WW: Hero World. It turned out rather unsuccessful.
- The win tends to go for the alliance who has shown the biggest will for it, that's certainly fine.
- The need to control and protect entirely some islands, makes the need to control territory that enlivens all the game before; and the need to send ressources, a strong incentive towards the center of the world, with all the competition at the start etc.
So I came to this, keeping the WW but with levels achieved by fighting, alliance vs. machine to avoid cheating agreements. To give it a cool look and better fantasy, players fight mythical creatures.
Details:
WW are achieved by beating different mythical creatures. Those creatures represent the different kinds of fighting, attacking, defending, with the 3 kinds of weaponry + naval, makes 8 of them (can be more if dev cost is worth it...).
I looked into several historic sources and selected 8 ones:
Checked with different sources; descriptions vary quite often though.
The boring sending-ressources part is replaced by a path of fighting challenges for each WW.
Each path consists in beating each creature once, but in a definite order. The levels stay progressive as they are now. So each WW is orientated towards certain kinds of units for the last and biggest levels. The challenges take place (proposal) at the WW spot on the WW island for the ground ones, and the nearest place on coast for the naval ones. In the lower part of the WW window, instead of ressource info, you have besides challenge info buttons to attack, support, or appease (see below).
The players win BP by fighting the creatures; a key point I think, with the current system sending ressources is not directly rewarded and in practice most players prefer to sim on their own, letting others lead them to victory. Here players help their expansion as well. It also lets a way for leaders to check who's really participating. ATM, when a players says he's sent 1 million ressources to a WW, you only have his word. Those 2 points should make less MM like "Please send res to this WW", with eventual threats to kick out those who don't participate etc, which globally underlines the tedious aspect of the current system (a bit discouraging for leaders).
Attacking challenges: the defensive power of creatures is brought down piece by piece. The formula for fight result is the current one but without the mass effect (otherwise the first attackers would be too disadvantaged). Without morale too. It's won when 1 of his 3 defensive bars (or just 1 with naval fight) is brought to 0. Given that (proposal) 1 bar is originally only half the 2 others, you can attack something else than his weak point but it will rarely be worth it. Creatures have regeneration capacities. This is to valuate another aspect of good play: timing, as well as team coordination. The monster will recover 30% of the damage of an attack if it's not hit from another city in 5 minutes (without change to the ABP from the 1st attack); then another 20% unless hit in the next hour. So it should be a lot of attacks of different sizes, the biggest ones being followed closely by others, with the players ensuring timing themselves or posting landing time of big nukes in alliance forum.
Defensive challenges: when leader clicks "Provoke attack" in the window of this WW, the attack starts and lands in a delay depending on the level: 24 hours for levels 1&2, then 8 hours per level (makes 72 hours for the biggest); if it beats the defensive wall set by the alliance, the creature comes back with its remaining attacking power in the same delay, then eventually a 3rd time. If it's not beaten after those 3 trials, the challenge is reset, the creature gets back its full power and the leader has to provoke attack again etc. A detail: fire ships can participate naval defense, their defensive value being the offensive value of 1 LS. The formula for battle result is the normal one, without morale but with the mass effect, so it's not worth facing a big healthy monster with small def. So it should be the leader warning his team which kinds of specialized units they have to build and send, then judging when it's OK to provoke attack. Like in usual game, if team lacks response or if battle is engaged before team is ready, they won't come out best.
Gods and mythical units: the WW era would go with the favor cap being raised at (proposal) 2000. The current cap of 500 is ridiculously low when you have a big account. By raising it, myths can take part in the fight and rebuilding in general is helped. Myths from different gods can participate defense together: under exceptional circumstances, as gods want the end of the creatures mess, they allow these units to cohabit.
Attack and support:
This can all be done with buttons in the WW window.
For alliance members: during a defensive challenge only support is possible, and only attack during an offensive challenge. For naval challenges, only navy can be sent. For ground challenge, no navy can be sent except transports (players get an explicit error message if they try to). If a support starts when there's a defensive challenge going on and lands when there's no longer an adequate challenge, it just comes back home with no fight; same principle for attacks. This avoids many potential concerns between teammates.
For the other players: they can either help the alliance or slow it down. Same condition, only navy for naval challenges, no navy for the others. To help this alliance (it does happen ingame), support can be sent during def challenges, and attacks during attacking ones, with same formulas for battle result and BP as for the alliance members. To slow down the alliance: support for def challenges can be attacked (usual formulas for battle result, but without morale); for offensive challenges, creatures can't be supported (they won't wait and sit next to the behemoth for obvious reasons), but they can be appeased by giving favors to help them recover their full power.
When a creature is beaten, all members receive a report, with a reward available in it. The rewards are more about ressources, to balance with BP: ressources gifts, res production bonus for some time, biggest warehouse capacity, bigger market place capacity, better ratio/amount with the Phoenician Merchant... The bigger the challenge, the bigger the reward.
When all challenges are completed for a WW, alliance receives directly the complete WW on its island.
The need to control the island, in order to start and expand a WW, stays same as now (with the changes that could happen in the meantime).
If alliance loses control of the WW island, the current challenge is reset, and can only be started again when island control is gained back. If the WW was complete, alliance comes back to the start of last level, like now.
Same thing for the 4 and 7 WW awards.
The amount of BP needed per level: can be discussed. The current amounts of ressources could be converted in the number of specialized classical units that can be made from them, then the resulting firepower. But it's also linked to other ideas like this one: Making all World Wonder island cities always attackable. If a WW is easier to break, it could be easier to build. Up to players' wishes.
Roman numbers matching with creatures in the preceding array.
Always alterning attack and defense. All the WW require to beat each monster once.
This is only 1 possible combination, amongst many others.
.
Roman numbers matching with creatures in the preceding array. Always alterning attack and defense. Each wonder does them all, plus 2 creatures twice. But we could also think about having less than 10 levels per wonder.
Balance:
This would favor the biggest firepower, with abilities in both attack and defense. In practice it should be much about rebuilding and coordination.
Many farm spaces will be needed for the last levels, alliances can't just sim, send, and recruit def everywhere. Other alliances can attack while defense is away, or nukes in building. Globally, it should help WW ops, which can give great moments ingame
Much specialized rebuilding would be needed, so ressource disbalances would come up and market place would become part of the race as well. Alliances could look for the right WW priorities to synchronize with other needs in ressources.
The big amounts of BP available through these challenges could have impacts on BP rankings without war between players. But this tendancy is already there through island quests. If players judge it could change these rankings too much, CP could be given directly instead of BP.
I must say, with the needs for quick rebuilding and possibles calls to the Phoenician Merchant, this would favor more gold users than the current system. But gold is already everywhere, except to send ressources more often, the system we have now...
Abuse Prevention:
I don't see anything more needed ATM.
Summary:
Changing the current WW sending-ressources-system to firepower challenges.
I tried to think all the details; in practice it would get a simpler look, with 1 challenge after another and possible prospectives.
This should enliven the endgame in many ways. Fighting mythical monsters should be anything but dull
Make WW achieved by beating mythical creatures instead of sending ressources.
Have you Checked the DNS and PSI lists in the Archives? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested?
Checked above 1000 threads (nearly 2 years of posting); several ideas around the endgame but not this one.
Reason:
The current WW process is largely unpopular. The fun in game goes with fighting for cities and territory, then it turns about clicking repetitively to send ressources to some island... Players don't recognize their game anymore.
From what I've seen: 1) In effect players leave quicker at this stage, especially amongst the active ones; 2) In alliances building WW, how many really send ressources? My guess is rarely over 10% (otherwise building would be much, much quicker). Such lack of interest in what will tell if they win or not, shows the current system is not best.
Looking for alternative solutions, I came to this one somewhat by elimination. Some recurrent proposals:
- Making WW done with ABP, overall BP, looting, or anything players win from fighting each other: runs into possibilities of under-table, against-spirit agreements between players, alliances, an alliance and its academy formed for this purpose, etc. We can't underestimate this when players have spent over a year on the game, and there's no sure way to distinguish real fighting from fake one.
- Awarding the win according to territory control objectives: alliances would rather colonize remote oceans and run away from the core. The game before WW would be even more boring than the current WW system; and if you make it only about core oceans, too many alliances would be out of it.
- Turning the endgame into destruction time, players wouldn't conquer but destroy cities, the last one standing wins. Quite likely, some simmer colonizing far away would win, not what we're looking for. I think this issue goes with any destructive end.
OTOH, there are also some good aspects in current WW, I'd like to keep them:
- It gives a goal and a way to win, in fact many players need it. A trial has been made to build a competitive world only about fighting, no WW: Hero World. It turned out rather unsuccessful.
- The win tends to go for the alliance who has shown the biggest will for it, that's certainly fine.
- The need to control and protect entirely some islands, makes the need to control territory that enlivens all the game before; and the need to send ressources, a strong incentive towards the center of the world, with all the competition at the start etc.
So I came to this, keeping the WW but with levels achieved by fighting, alliance vs. machine to avoid cheating agreements. To give it a cool look and better fantasy, players fight mythical creatures.
Details:
WW are achieved by beating different mythical creatures. Those creatures represent the different kinds of fighting, attacking, defending, with the 3 kinds of weaponry + naval, makes 8 of them (can be more if dev cost is worth it...).
I looked into several historic sources and selected 8 ones:
| Name | Brief description | Way to fight them |
| I. ENCELADUS | A giant, son of Gaia. Breathes fire like a volcano. | Range attack |
| II. BIRDS OF ARES | Send arrows/darts. Guarded the Amazonian shrine of this god. | Range defense |
| III. NEADES | Gigantic animals from the island of Samos. Their roar could split the ground. | Sharp attack |
| IV. CHIMERA | Three-headed creature, mix of lion, snake and goat. | Sharp defense |
| V. KERES | Death demons with with dark wings, clawed hangs and gnashing teeth. Haunting the battlefields to feed on the blood of wounded soldiers. | Blunt attack |
| VI. STYMPHALIAN BIRDS | Man-eating birds with beaks of bronze and sharp metallic feathers. | Blunt defense |
| VII. CHARYBDIS | A sea monster creating deadly whirlpools by breathing. | Naval attack |
| VIII. TROJAN DRAGONS | 2 monstrous sea serpents sent to destroy a Trojan priest during the siege. | Naval defense |
Each path consists in beating each creature once, but in a definite order. The levels stay progressive as they are now. So each WW is orientated towards certain kinds of units for the last and biggest levels. The challenges take place (proposal) at the WW spot on the WW island for the ground ones, and the nearest place on coast for the naval ones. In the lower part of the WW window, instead of ressource info, you have besides challenge info buttons to attack, support, or appease (see below).
The players win BP by fighting the creatures; a key point I think, with the current system sending ressources is not directly rewarded and in practice most players prefer to sim on their own, letting others lead them to victory. Here players help their expansion as well. It also lets a way for leaders to check who's really participating. ATM, when a players says he's sent 1 million ressources to a WW, you only have his word. Those 2 points should make less MM like "Please send res to this WW", with eventual threats to kick out those who don't participate etc, which globally underlines the tedious aspect of the current system (a bit discouraging for leaders).
Attacking challenges: the defensive power of creatures is brought down piece by piece. The formula for fight result is the current one but without the mass effect (otherwise the first attackers would be too disadvantaged). Without morale too. It's won when 1 of his 3 defensive bars (or just 1 with naval fight) is brought to 0. Given that (proposal) 1 bar is originally only half the 2 others, you can attack something else than his weak point but it will rarely be worth it. Creatures have regeneration capacities. This is to valuate another aspect of good play: timing, as well as team coordination. The monster will recover 30% of the damage of an attack if it's not hit from another city in 5 minutes (without change to the ABP from the 1st attack); then another 20% unless hit in the next hour. So it should be a lot of attacks of different sizes, the biggest ones being followed closely by others, with the players ensuring timing themselves or posting landing time of big nukes in alliance forum.
Defensive challenges: when leader clicks "Provoke attack" in the window of this WW, the attack starts and lands in a delay depending on the level: 24 hours for levels 1&2, then 8 hours per level (makes 72 hours for the biggest); if it beats the defensive wall set by the alliance, the creature comes back with its remaining attacking power in the same delay, then eventually a 3rd time. If it's not beaten after those 3 trials, the challenge is reset, the creature gets back its full power and the leader has to provoke attack again etc. A detail: fire ships can participate naval defense, their defensive value being the offensive value of 1 LS. The formula for battle result is the normal one, without morale but with the mass effect, so it's not worth facing a big healthy monster with small def. So it should be the leader warning his team which kinds of specialized units they have to build and send, then judging when it's OK to provoke attack. Like in usual game, if team lacks response or if battle is engaged before team is ready, they won't come out best.
Gods and mythical units: the WW era would go with the favor cap being raised at (proposal) 2000. The current cap of 500 is ridiculously low when you have a big account. By raising it, myths can take part in the fight and rebuilding in general is helped. Myths from different gods can participate defense together: under exceptional circumstances, as gods want the end of the creatures mess, they allow these units to cohabit.
Attack and support:
This can all be done with buttons in the WW window.
For alliance members: during a defensive challenge only support is possible, and only attack during an offensive challenge. For naval challenges, only navy can be sent. For ground challenge, no navy can be sent except transports (players get an explicit error message if they try to). If a support starts when there's a defensive challenge going on and lands when there's no longer an adequate challenge, it just comes back home with no fight; same principle for attacks. This avoids many potential concerns between teammates.
For the other players: they can either help the alliance or slow it down. Same condition, only navy for naval challenges, no navy for the others. To help this alliance (it does happen ingame), support can be sent during def challenges, and attacks during attacking ones, with same formulas for battle result and BP as for the alliance members. To slow down the alliance: support for def challenges can be attacked (usual formulas for battle result, but without morale); for offensive challenges, creatures can't be supported (they won't wait and sit next to the behemoth for obvious reasons), but they can be appeased by giving favors to help them recover their full power.
When a creature is beaten, all members receive a report, with a reward available in it. The rewards are more about ressources, to balance with BP: ressources gifts, res production bonus for some time, biggest warehouse capacity, bigger market place capacity, better ratio/amount with the Phoenician Merchant... The bigger the challenge, the bigger the reward.
When all challenges are completed for a WW, alliance receives directly the complete WW on its island.
The need to control the island, in order to start and expand a WW, stays same as now (with the changes that could happen in the meantime).
If alliance loses control of the WW island, the current challenge is reset, and can only be started again when island control is gained back. If the WW was complete, alliance comes back to the start of last level, like now.
Same thing for the 4 and 7 WW awards.
The amount of BP needed per level: can be discussed. The current amounts of ressources could be converted in the number of specialized classical units that can be made from them, then the resulting firepower. But it's also linked to other ideas like this one: Making all World Wonder island cities always attackable. If a WW is easier to break, it could be easier to build. Up to players' wishes.
| Level | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |
| Pyramids | VII | IV | I | VIII | III | II | V | VI |
| Gardens | I | VIII | III | IV | V | VI | VII | II |
| Zeus statue | III | VI | VII | II | V | VIII | I | IV |
| Artemis temple | II | V | VI | VII | IV | III | VIII | I |
| Mausoleum | VI | III | II | V | VIII | I | IV | VII |
| Colossus | I | II | VII | IV | III | VI | V | VIII |
| Lighthouse | VIII | V | IV | I | VI | VII | II | III |
Always alterning attack and defense. All the WW require to beat each monster once.
This is only 1 possible combination, amongst many others.
| Level | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| Pyramids | IV | III | II | V | VI | VII | VIII | I | IV | III |
| Gardens | VIII | I | VI | VII | II | V | IV | III | VIII | I |
| Zeus statue | VI | V | VIII | I | IV | III | II | VII | VI | V |
| Artemis temple | V | II | III | VIII | I | VI | VII | IV | V | II |
| Mausoleum | III | VI | I | IV | VII | II | V | VIII | III | VI |
| Colossus | II | VII | IV | III | VIII | I | VI | V | II | VII |
| Lighthouse | VII | IV | V | II | III | VIII | I | VI | VII | IV |
Some very nice visuals provided by qubitsized. Property by Innogames and Wizards of the Coast.
The final disposition should be a bit different, and the "Reveal" option was for the Raise of Gaia, a slightly different idea. But it shows what the creatures could look like, with the Attack/Support/Appease buttons next.
Attack/Support open the usual tab for sending units, only the Appease window is new here.
The final disposition should be a bit different, and the "Reveal" option was for the Raise of Gaia, a slightly different idea. But it shows what the creatures could look like, with the Attack/Support/Appease buttons next.
Attack/Support open the usual tab for sending units, only the Appease window is new here.
Balance:
This would favor the biggest firepower, with abilities in both attack and defense. In practice it should be much about rebuilding and coordination.
Many farm spaces will be needed for the last levels, alliances can't just sim, send, and recruit def everywhere. Other alliances can attack while defense is away, or nukes in building. Globally, it should help WW ops, which can give great moments ingame
Much specialized rebuilding would be needed, so ressource disbalances would come up and market place would become part of the race as well. Alliances could look for the right WW priorities to synchronize with other needs in ressources.
The big amounts of BP available through these challenges could have impacts on BP rankings without war between players. But this tendancy is already there through island quests. If players judge it could change these rankings too much, CP could be given directly instead of BP.
I must say, with the needs for quick rebuilding and possibles calls to the Phoenician Merchant, this would favor more gold users than the current system. But gold is already everywhere, except to send ressources more often, the system we have now...
Abuse Prevention:
I don't see anything more needed ATM.
Summary:
Changing the current WW sending-ressources-system to firepower challenges.
I tried to think all the details; in practice it would get a simpler look, with 1 challenge after another and possible prospectives.
This should enliven the endgame in many ways. Fighting mythical monsters should be anything but dull
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