Is condemning paedophilia wrong?

[Aicy]

Okay so this is something I've been thinking about quite a bit recently and I find it very interesting and somewhat important too, yet I've never seen it discussed once before, ever. Maybe because almost everyone is certain of their position, the position opposite to mine.

What I am talking about is whether or not paedophiles are bad people. I am certain that you immediately thought something synonymous with "yes" but I disagree. I have the opinion that being sexually attracted to children is no different to people of the same sex as you, or the opposite sex. It's not a choice and as long as it doesn't hurt other people shouldn't be condemned.

The problem with paedophilia is that the only way for it to actually happen is for the paedophile to molest the child. That is morally wrong, obviously. Same as a straight man molesting a women or a gay man molesting another man. However this, in my eyes, like with homosexuality, doesn't make all of paedophilia wrong.

Why is it that we live in a society where we are taking strides in rights for homosexuals, as we should be, but whenever the word paedophile is mentioned the word evil seems to come up too? For me, the only things morally wrong are when they hurt other people. If someone is a paedophile and they never hurt another person because of their sexual desires, then they are not a bad person because of it. They are just someone with a different sexual compass to you, like a heterosexual and a homosexual.

What I am trying to say is that if a paedophile never actually hurts a child by molesting them or watching real child pornography (as that as to be filmed and the child has to be, y'know. it's not good), but maybe just watch anime porn instead there is nothing wrong with them. The same could be true with necrophilia or zoophilia.

Although as I think about this I think there is one country where what I am saying is likely to be agreed to by most people, and that is Japan. Where anime (cartoon) porn of children is legal, and the same is true with stuff like tentacle monsters (zoophilia).

 

[Lugosi]

The problem with it is from the child welfare side.

 

[Aicy]

Of course, but like I said if the paedophiles do not hurt children in any way then it's fine imo. If they do, then they are bad people.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree with you.

Paedophilia in itself is not wrong in my eyes, the paedophiles who actually molest/rape/abuse minors are. I mean, every under aged kid in love with a classmate is a paedophile by definition. If 2 teenagers sleep with eachother they are paedophiles. I am a paedophile.

The problem with paedophiles is that, just like everyone else, they like to watch pornographic material. This is where the moral issues arise. Because porn needs to be made. Even though I believe in love, I do not think that children are old enough to make choices for themselves, because children are much more susceptible to being influences or manipulated. So I am 100% against children sleeping with adults. This is the only problem that I have with paedophilia, the fact tat there are people who abuse children.

So as long as the paedophile in question does not abuse children or support the making of child porn I don't think we should condemn them.

 

[DeletedUser]

The problem with paedophilia discussions in modern society is that people connect that term to actions.. people assume that paedophilia is wrong because it involves sexual abuse of children. That isn't [always] the case, though.. the term merely refers to the feelings/attraction that the person feels towards young children. As you mentioned, that in itself is no different from a person being attracted towards another person of the same age, a person of the opposite sex or, indeed, tentacle monsters. The problem comes when the feelings become actions.

The subject in general is one that I have discussed at great length with friends, but I will try to resist the urge to write an essay in response.. to put my opinions simply; Yes, it is wrong to condemn paedophilia without reason. Whether or not it is wrong to engage in sexual acts with children is another matter entirely, but attraction to children is no different to any other form of attraction and for that reason it is wrong to condemn it entirely.

 

[DeletedUser]

First of all, all of you are just as sick as any pedophile to think that even the thought of sex with children is ok. Second, Skullyhoofd, two minors cannot be considered pedophiles. The act of Pedaphilia is a between an adult and a child, not two minors. The definition varies slightly of pedaphilia but for the most part it is fantasy/abnormal interest in children or sexual act between an adult and prepubertal children.
Third of all, anime porn is ridiculous. Dont ever compare that to the reality and the disgusting horrors of children being abused, and if you watch it then get a life. Try to get involved into a real relationship with someone youre own age. YES! Pedaphilia is sick and should be condemmed. Once the wolf sees the sheep it wont be long before it atacks. That is the same mentality for any pedophile. If a pedophile can rape a child he/she will do it. A pedaphiles brains might be wired the wrong way but that does not mean that we should cater to there social and sexual inequalities. It should always be shunned and condemmded in any society. If you dont think so, then why dont you try making your argument to a child who has been taking advantage of, or a child who was beaten and raped. I cannot beleive that out of four people to respond to aicys pointless thread that not one of you would say yes it should be condemmed.

Please excuse any grammar errors.

 

[DeletedUser]

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in adults or late adolescents (persons age 16 or older) typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty may vary). The prepubescent child must be at least five years younger than the adolescent before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia

To me paedophilia seems dangerous when psychiatric word joins it.Since nor kids(below 13 years) nor paedophilian know what they are doing/will do/can do.Both of them are not mentally developed to understand risk associated with it.
But yes paedophilians are not someone to be hated off,need is to cure them with love and for parents to educate their children.

 

[DeletedUser4013]

I'm not going to put an opinion in on this topic, but I wanted to just drop this into the mix and see people's reactions:

Is the male fascination with the 'school-girl' fantasy considered paedophilia? It involves the desire to have sexual relations with a person who is most likely underage and where the other person is some adult, either the head teacher or otherwise. Thoughts?

 

[DeletedUser]

To start off, this is the definition of paedophilia that I use.

Definition for paedophilia:
pedophilia: a sexual attraction to children.

Now, to continue with the replying.

Is the male fascination with the 'school-girl' fantasy considered paedophilia? It involves the desire to have sexual relations with a person who is most likely underage and where the other person is some adult, either the head teacher or otherwise. Thoughts?

Yes, I think that this is a form of paedophilia. Unless they only watch it for the actual outfit exclusively, which would seem rather odd to me.

First of all, all of you are just as sick as any pedophile to think that even the thought of sex with children is ok.

First of all, you need to read the posts more carefully before you mindlessly start to insult others.

Second, Skullyhoofd, two minors cannot be considered pedophiles. The act of Pedaphilia is a between an adult and a child, not two minors. The definition varies slightly of pedaphilia but for the most part it is fantasy/abnormal interest in children or sexual act between an adult and prepubertal children.

According to the definition of paedophilia that I use, which is the one that popped up first googling it, the age of the paedophile is irrelevant. As you said, there are multiple definition for it, but the main focus is that someone is attracted to children. (i.e. Anyone younger than 18 years old)

Third of all, anime porn is ridiculous. Dont ever compare that to the reality and the disgusting horrors of children being abused, and if you watch it then get a life. Try to get involved into a real relationship with someone youre own age.

Please note that your opinion is, in fact, not fact. You also might want to drop the insults.

YES! Pedaphilia is sick and should be condemmed. Once the wolf sees the sheep it wont be long before it atacks. That is the same mentality for any pedophile. If a pedophile can rape a child he/she will do it. A pedaphiles brains might be wired the wrong way but that does not mean that we should cater to there social and sexual inequalities. It should always be shunned and condemmded in any society. If you dont think so, then why dont you try making your argument to a child who has been taking advantage of, or a child who was beaten and raped. I cannot beleive that out of four people to respond to aicys pointless thread that not one of you would say yes it should be condemmed.

If you actually would have read our posts, you would have read that nobody so far supports the abuse of children. In fact I'm pretty sure we have all explicitly said that the form of paedophilia that should not be accepted is the actual abuse of children.

But what about the paedophiles that only fantasize? what about the paedophiles who read erotic texts about sexual intercourse with minors? Do they hurt anybody? Is any kid affected by this?
No. I think that this form of paedophilia is completely acceptable.
Once again, I am 100% against the rape/abuse/taking advantage of children.

To me paedophilia seems dangerous when psychiatric word joins it.Since nor kids(below 13 years) nor paedophilian know what they are doing/will do/can do.Both of them are not mentally developed to understand risk associated with it.
But yes paedophilians are not someone to be hated off,need is to cure them with love and for parents to educate their children.

I do not think that every paedophile has the mental 'disease'. I am convinced that there are plenty of good men out there that would never hurt a child, they just have a strange fetish.
The ones that do have a mental illness which could lead to actions that they cannot control, then they definitely do need professional help. We should condemn these paedophiles, but we should not throw them in jail, release them and then never look back to them again until they commit another crime. They need help.

 

[DeletedUser]

It does not mattter what definition anyone uses as it can vary but everyone knows that it is gross. I did not insult anyone, if you interpreted anything I said as an insult then you must be extremely sensitive.(that is not an insult). Why cant any of you draw a line and stand on one side of it, Seriously? This is a serious social matter and not some something to be footed about. You all say that you are against the act but not the thought of pedaphila, sure the thought of it might not be illegal but that does not make it any more acceptable. How long will it be before a pedodhiliac acts out those fantasies????? Not long, and then what will you say? Oh.... well, we thought that if the pedophiles only thought about it and did not actually do it then everything would be ok. Are you really that naive? So again, NO! condemming pedophilia is not wrong.

 

[Aicy]

Everything you are saying, e.g "it's gross", can and has been used against any other sexual desire such as homosexuality.

Or that "oh he has fantasys about children, that means he will rape them one day". Does that mean that because I have fantasys about hot women I will rape a hot woman one day?

Please stop using opinion as fact and ad hominem.

 

[DeletedUser]

It does not mattter what definition anyone uses as it can vary but everyone knows that it is gross.

You're talking horse defecation. That is an opinion and to state that "everyone knows" it is sheer nonsense. As skullyhoofd has already stated, stop attempting to use your opinions as fact because they are not so.

I'm not going to put an opinion in on this topic, but I wanted to just drop this into the mix and see people's reactions:

Is the male fascination with the 'school-girl' fantasy considered paedophilia? It involves the desire to have sexual relations with a person who is most likely underage and where the other person is some adult, either the head teacher or otherwise. Thoughts?

In my opinion, the whole 'school girl' fascination is simply a fetish like any other.. it revolves more around the outfit and the actual scenario (person being punished for being 'naughty') than around the idea of intercourse with an actual student.

That's not to say that there aren't people who use 'school girl' pornography as a means to fantasise about paedophilic acts, but I don't believe it to be so in the majority of cases.

 

[DeletedUser]

This thread is not about adult fantasies, or any sexual desires of legal and consenting adults. This thread is about Paedophilia, plain and simple. Which, by the way of any definition is the sexual act or desires of intercourse with children. Which is also extremely disgusting...FACT! So yes, paedophila should be condemmed in any society.

 

[Aicy]

I'm starting to think you're just a troll now.

 

[DeletedUser]

This thread is not about adult fantasies, or any sexual desires of legal and consenting adults. This thread is about Paedophilia, plain and simple. Which, by the way of any definition is the sexual act or desires of intercourse with children. Which is also extremely disgusting...FACT! So yes, paedophila should be condemmed in any society.

So, you accept that paedophilia is not necessarily sexual acts with a child. There is a clear difference between desiring something and doing it, hence the whole subject of this thread.

Engaging in the act is wrong. No one who has posted in this thread disagrees with that opinion (so far ).

The whole point of this debate is that where those desires are satisfied in a legal way (such as already stated) whether or not that makes a person inherently a bad person.

I personally don't think it does, it's when it crosses the line that a crime has been committed, not before. As far as I am aware society as a whole does not punish a person for their thoughts, and any society that does is not one I want to be part of. In the same way some people have fantasies of control and non consensual sex, does that make them inherently wrong? Sexual assault is wrong, yes, but fantasies of it?

And I'm disturbed to find myself agreeing with Aicy

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm starting to think you're just a troll now.

Given that the -Rep I received had the following comment: "So you dont think sex with children is gross? You should get help", I am inclined to agree with you.

As far as I am aware society as a whole does not punish a person for their thoughts, and any society that does is not one I want to be part of.

Often, unfortunately, society does punish people for their thoughts.. when it concerns matters such as paedophilia. If someone is open in admitting that they have such thoughts, they can expect to find themselves shunned and/or harassed by other people. And that, as I said in my first post (I think), is the problem.. people do not acknowledge the difference between thoughts and actions.

The other point you made is an interesting one, too.. were someone to admit that they have fantasies about rape/non-consensual sex, the response may often be along the lines of "okay, that's a fetish, it doesn't mean you're actually going to rape someone". When it involves children however, the response is more similar to rjc1107's naive outbursts: "EWW, you want to have sex with children, that's disgusting".

More people need to understand and acknowledge the difference between thoughts of a sexual nature, and the acts/desire to commit acts associated with those thoughts. Thoughts = fine. Acts = not always fine.

 

[DeletedUser4013]

I think it is very important that this debate continue along the lines of merely discussing the thoughts/desires of persons with this sexual inclination than the actual actions of committing the act itself. I think we are all agreed about the act. Please keep it to these guidelines.

 

[DeletedUser]

Often, unfortunately, society does punish people for their thoughts.. when it concerns matters such as paedophilia. If someone is open in admitting that they have such thoughts, they can expect to find themselves shunned and/or harassed by other people. And that, as I said in my first post (I think), is the problem.. people do not acknowledge the difference between thoughts and actions.

The other point you made is an interesting one, too.. were someone to admit that they have fantasies about rape/non-consensual sex, the response may often be along the lines of "okay, that's a fetish, it doesn't mean you're actually going to rape someone". When it involves children however, the response is more similar to rjc1107's naive outbursts: "EWW, you want to have sex with children, that's disgusting".

More people need to understand and acknowledge the difference between thoughts of a sexual nature, and the acts/desire to commit acts associated with those thoughts. Thoughts = fine. Acts = not always fine.

With regards being shunned, yes, mob rule does usually come to this conclusion, however I was speaking in terms of official punishment, which thankfully doesn't go so far as "thought crimes" yet (I'm waiting for the triplets to be born ).

I think it comes from an inherent urge to protect your children, I know many parents can be over protective, but everyone wants to keep their child safe. Whether that gives people to right to behave in such a manner I don't know, as with my example, not everyone that could be a danger is removed from society, or treated as an outcast.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well then, even the thought of sex with children should be condemmed in any society. Aicy clearly states when he opened the thread with the title "Is condemming paedophilia wrong". Which by the way of any definition is sex with children. Yes, it should be condemmed even the thought of it. Guess what? That is my opinion, just as much an opinion as any one who has already said that the thought of sex with children is ok. Apparently though, opinions are shunned against in a DandD section, so anybody who said or agreed that my opinions are horse defecation is guilty of hypocrisy....FACT!

I still cannot understand how any of you would agree to the idea of sex with children is ok. The tought of it alone makes me sick. Aicy, also please dont insult or offend any homesexual by comparing legal and social struggles of sexual liberty between adults with the disgusting thought of peaedohilia. Which you make a reference to in youre opening thread.

The other point you made is an interesting one, too.. were someone to admit that they have fantasies about rape/non-consensual sex, the response may often be along the lines of "okay, that's a fetish, it doesn't mean you're actually going to rape someone"

I dont understand how that is "ok" either. The thought of anyone wanting to rape anybody is not ok. If you think so then you should get help for that to, and the only thing here that is naive is youre false sense of righteousness. To think that it should be acceptable in society for someone to have the thought of raping another is less then barbaric.

s I said in my first post (I think), is the problem.. people do not acknowledge the difference between thoughts and actions.

Really? People dont know the difference between thoughts and actions, Really? Thanks for mentioning that again and the fact that you are wrong. Wrong, because that is youre opinion and it could never be valid in this forum because it smells like horse defacation. Also, even if you do beleive that youre statement is true. then you completly contradicted youre self. Allow me to point it out for you. Youre saying that only the paedophile has the ability to acknowledge the differnce between his thoughts and actions but not any one else? Do You really beleive youre own statement? However, Im saying that the paedophile will not control his actions once he/she has had one to many desires. As in so many cases before, the victim was often stalked and fantasized about before being taking advantage of. That is why even the mere thought of anything relating to paedophilia should be condemmed in any society.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well then, even the thought of sex with children should be condemmed in any society. Aicy clearly states when he opened the thread with the title "Is condemming paedophilia wrong". Which by the way of any definition is sex with children. Yes, it should be condemmed even the thought of it. Guess what? That is my opinion, just as much an opinion as any one who has already said that the thought of sex with children is ok. Apparently though, opinions are shunned against in a DandD section, so anybody who said or agreed that my opinions are horse defecation is guilty of hypocrisy....FACT!

I still cannot understand how any of you would agree to the idea of sex with children is ok. The tought of it alone makes me sick. Aicy, also please dont insult or offend any homesexual by comparing legal and social struggles of sexual liberty between adults with the disgusting thought of peaedohilia. Which you make a reference to in youre opening thread.

I dont understand how that is "ok" either. The thought of anyone wanting to rape anybody is not ok. If you think so then you should get help for that to, and the only thing here that is naive is youre false sense of righteousness. To think that it should be acceptable in society for someone to have the thought of raping another is less then barbaric.

Really? People dont know the difference between thoughts and actions, Really? Thanks for mentioning that again and the fact that you are wrong. Wrong, because that is youre opinion and it could never be valid in this forum because it smells like horse defacation. Also, even if you do beleive that youre statement is true. then you completly contradicted youre self. Allow me to point it out for you. Youre saying that only the paedophile has the ability to acknowledge the differnce between his thoughts and actions but not any one else? Do You really beleive youre own statement? However, Im saying that the paedophile will not control his actions once he/she has had one to many desires. As in so many cases before, the victim was often stalked and fantasized about before being taking advantage of. That is why even the mere thought of anything relating to paedophilia should be condemmed in any society.

[edited]

Seriously, if you can't even manage to read and understand other people's posts properly.. don't post at all yourself.

I haven't implied that only the paedophile has the ability to differentiate between his thoughts and his actions, because I stated that the problem is that 'people' (yes, that is people in general, not 'people' as in paedophiles) cannot do so. The clear implication was that EVERYONE needs to understand the difference.

Using the United States as an example, the reported population is over 311.5 million, approaching 312 million. Do you know the number of registered sex offenders? Less than one million (closer to two-thirds of a million, if I remember correctly). Even assuming that the same amount again have not been convicted, that makes less than 2 million people in the United States who have committed crimes of a sexual nature. Take into account that that number includes those who have committed offences against minors - that is, by your definition, paedophiles. Statistics have suggested that less than a third of sexual crimes are committed against children, which would mean, again, less than one million offenders in the entirety of the United States. That's around 0.2% of the American population.

Now, take a think as to how many people have thought about such things? I have no statistics to hand that show just what percentage of the population have had thoughts of a sexual nature regarding minors, but I dare say it is considerably higher than 0.2%. By your logic, anyone who so much as thinks about such things should be condemned and, from what you seem to be suggesting, punished as severely as anyone convicted of sexual crimes against minors.

[edited]

Furthermore, you were implying (amusingly, by copying other people's comments and then attempting to re-use them in order to form a coherent argument) that I attempting to pass my opinions off as a fact. Correction; I have never once attempted to pass my own opinions off as fact. Any opinions of mine are just that, opinions. Any facts, meanwhile, are confirmed and passed on in an educated manner - statistics regarding sexual offenders, for example, which I have actually taken the time to research and confirm.

[edited]


Edit:

[edited]







There you go, Z Grade, removed the potentially offensive stoofs from my post. Now it's boring, though.