Is Raising the Minimum Wage Economically Advantageous?

DeletedUser

Guest
having capitalism is a good way to get people's job replaced with robots. That's just how it works.


What does one need to be able to do something better with their life? Money. What do minimum wage worker currently not have a lot of? Money.
So if you are trying to keep minimum wage low to force people to move on in life you are being counter production as you make it nearly impossible.



such as?

capitalism will pay a worker who is worth their wage, that's the way it works. What we have now is pseudo-capitalism with major government intervention and it's bull shat.

You don't need money to get a better job, you can g oto college off of grants and scholarships while working for minimum wage, I know plenty of people who have done it. Your claim that money is needed to do things is false. Sure it helps, but it is not as important as working hard and being determines.

Additionally what economic system besides capitalism would you propose?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Lol, It's not 1750. The American dream is a sham. You can't just go to the grants office and order 5 grants. You are grossly oversimplifying a serious socioeconomical issue. All while suggesting the US should turn into China/Taiwan?

You see an increase in the minimum wage as needless government interference in the workings of the market. While in fact, a big increase would substantially reduce government intervention and dependency on public assistance programs.

I suggest a realistic capitalistic view of raising the minimum wage.
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
capitalism will pay a worker who is worth their wage, that's the way it works.
Yeah no. If you are a good captalist you are going to pay your workers the lowest possible amount you can.

You don't need money to get a better job, you can g oto college off of grants and scholarships while working for minimum wage,
Many minimum wage workers are supporting families and can't afford to lose working hours to go to college. We are not talking about kids fresh out of high school here.
Your claim that money is needed to do things is false.
name one single thing you can do that doesn't cost you money.
Sure it helps, but it is not as important as working hard and being determines.
do that all you want without money you are starving and not getting into a college.

Additionally what economic system besides capitalism would you propose?
I like Nordic Capitalism.

Also i agree with all that SKully said




Jack i promise i will eventually respond to you. It might take some time though lol.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Here's the study if you want to read through it:
http://www.nber.org/papers/w12663.pdf
Funnily enough, this study was actually mentioned and talked about in the one I posted :p

Here is what was said:
The Neumark and Wascher review, however, is considerably more subjective and arguably lessrelevant to the United States than the two meta-studies discussed earlier. Only 52 of the 102 studiesreviewed by Neumark and Wascher analyzed U.S. data. Of these, Neumark and Wascher designated19 as "most credible," five of which were their own studies.19 The Neumark and Wascher (2006)review also excludes several important papers that were not published until after the review wascompleted, including the important contributions of Arindrajit Dube, William Lester, and MichaelReich (2010) and Sylvia Allegretto, Dube, and Reich (2011) (to which we will return to below).20 Wolfson and Belman (forthcoming) also produced an extensive qualitative review of minimum wageresearch since 2000, including a significant number of studies published too late for inclusion inNeumark and Wascher (2006, 2008). Of the studies they reviewed, 40 analyzed U.S. data. Fourteenof these found negative employment effects; thirteen found no effects; one found positive effects;and twelve, a mixture of negative, positive, and no effects. To sort out these conflicting findings,Wolfson and Belman appealed to their meta-study, which as noted earlier, concluded that there wereno statistically and economically meaningful employment losses associated with the minimum wage.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Funnily enough, this study was actually mentioned and talked about in the one I posted :p

Here is what was said:
The Neumark and Wascher review, however, is considerably more subjective and arguably lessrelevant to the United States than the two meta-studies discussed earlier. Only 52 of the 102 studiesreviewed by Neumark and Wascher analyzed U.S. data. Of these, Neumark and Wascher designated19 as "most credible," five of which were their own studies.19 The Neumark and Wascher (2006)review also excludes several important papers that were not published until after the review wascompleted, including the important contributions of Arindrajit Dube, William Lester, and MichaelReich (2010) and Sylvia Allegretto, Dube, and Reich (2011) (to which we will return to below).20 Wolfson and Belman (forthcoming) also produced an extensive qualitative review of minimum wageresearch since 2000, including a significant number of studies published too late for inclusion inNeumark and Wascher (2006, 2008). Of the studies they reviewed, 40 analyzed U.S. data. Fourteenof these found negative employment effects; thirteen found no effects; one found positive effects;and twelve, a mixture of negative, positive, and no effects. To sort out these conflicting findings,Wolfson and Belman appealed to their meta-study, which as noted earlier, concluded that there wereno statistically and economically meaningful employment losses associated with the minimum wage.

Okay, as no one is arguing the neg stance well, I guess I will take it on fully now...

First, just because the study includes evidence from outside the U.S. doesn't mean it's irrelevant to the topic. In fact, we can turn this argument as the studies from outside the U.S. give a broader scope to the metastudy and therefore is more accurate.

Additionally, just because they cited some of their own studies doesn't make it inaccurate. Know the expression: If you want something done right, do it yourself?

And lastly, on the statement that it is more subjective and essentially worse than that study, this was only said because the publisher of the study you are citing knew that this was the leading study in favor of unemployment effects and therefore tried to combat it. Anyone would say that their study is better, yet this does not make it true.

Now, I will be extending/clarifying some points:

The main point of raising the minimum wage is to help lift people out of poverty, but as I have shown, this isn't actually what happens. In fact, we can see that the opposite happens, meaning raising the minimum wage won't do what it's supposed to do.

DISCLAIMER: I SUPPORT A MINIMUM WAGE RAISE PERSONALLY, BUT A DEBATE IS VERY DULL WITHOUT 2 SIDES:)
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
Okay, as no one is arguing the neg stance well, I guess I will take it on fully now...

First, just because the study includes evidence from outside the U.S. doesn't mean it's irrelevant to the topic. In fact, we can turn this argument as the studies from outside the U.S. give a broader scope to the metastudy and therefore is more accurate.

Additionally, just because they cited some of their own studies doesn't make it inaccurate. Know the expression: If you want something done right, do it yourself?

And lastly, on the statement that it is more subjective and essentially worse than that study, this was only said because the publisher of the study you are citing knew that this was the leading study in favor of unemployment effects and therefore tried to combat it. Anyone would say that their study is better, yet this does not make it true.

Now, I will be extending/clarifying some points:

The main point of raising the minimum wage is to help lift people out of poverty, but as I have shown, this isn't actually what happens. In fact, we can see that the opposite happens, meaning raising the minimum wage won't do what it's supposed to do.

DISCLAIMER: I SUPPORT A MINIMUM WAGE RAISE PERSONALLY, BUT A DEBATE IS VERY DULL WITHOUT 2 SIDES:)
just commenting on the bolded real quick. Admitlly i have not read through the study so i wouldn't know just how much they cite themselves but it is never a good idea to use yourself as support. It's basically breeds bias for obvious reasons.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
just commenting on the bolded real quick. Admitlly i have not read through the study so i wouldn't know just how much they cite themselves but it is never a good idea to use yourself as support. It's basically breeds bias for obvious reasons.

It's just 6 sources in a study of over 100, so it's not that significant...additionally, metastudies are inherently biased as its a compilation of info and one can decide what info they want to include
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
get rid of welfare. boom economy fixed.

Once all those on welfare are starved to death due to the cancellation, I suppose you are technically correct. But all the human rights violations would not be all too pleasant.
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
It's just 6 sources in a study of over 100, so it's not that significant...additionally, metastudies are inherently biased as its a compilation of info and one can decide what info they want to include
point taken
 

DeletedUser30636

Guest
I can't know these things, true. However I trust economists and researcher, which I have cited above, much more than your assumptions. (or my own for that matter) That's the difference between our claims, one of us backed them up and the others are yours.

More money will flow because people who normally have to live frugally and save on everything would now be able to spend significantly more.

Also no issue? Then what do you think about the graph I posted above showing that because of the static minimum wage, inflation has caused a drastic drop in actual purchasing power for the minimum wage workers. This drop will only get worse the longer it remains unchanged. In another 10 years people might literally be unable to buy enough food to stay alive. This is a massive issue. At the very least the minimum wage should be adjusted for inflation every year. (Or even 6 months like we have here)
Again, minimum wage jobs are not meant for people are doing all the spending, the only spending a minimum wage worker should be doing is gas, video games, and girlfriends. Because they're supposed to be for teenagers! Not so a 30 year old man can afford a decent apartment, food, with money left over.

I believe that you shouldn't be able to just not work hard during school, and be able to live comfortably from your minimum wage jobs. Granted people make mistakes, but there's also second chance programs that give you the opportunity to get a job that isn't minimum wage.
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
You think 30 years old want to be working minimum wage jobs? Of course they don't. They are working those jobs cause they have no other options. If they stop working they risk starving themselves and possible their families. Even if minimum wage was meant for teenagers only (which it's not) there are alot of adult workers in it that are struggling and we don't have to do anything too crazy to help them out. Honestly just adjust for inflation. It's complete bs that we don't already do that.
Also who the hell says these people didn't work hard during school? Maybe they had to drop out to feed their families cause Mom and Dad's jobs couldn't cut it. Or maybe just maybe they couldn't afford to go to college because their parents were working for, oh what's its called again, oh yeah minimum wage.
 

DeletedUser30636

Guest
You think 30 years old want to be working minimum wage jobs? Of course they don't. They are working those jobs cause they have no other options. If they stop working they risk starving themselves and possible their families. Even if minimum wage was meant for teenagers only (which it's not) there are alot of adult workers in it that are struggling and we don't have to do anything too crazy to help them out. Honestly just adjust for inflation. It's complete bs that we don't already do that.
Also who the hell says these people didn't work hard during school? Maybe they had to drop out to feed their families cause Mom and Dad's jobs couldn't cut it. Or maybe just maybe they couldn't afford to go to college because their parents were working for, oh what's its called again, oh yeah minimum wage.

The only thing that stops someone from being successful is themselves. I don't care what circumstances there may be, there is ALWAYS a way to be successful, you just need to want it. Some have to work harder than others, it's always possible. So don't tell me that "they don't want to work those jobs" because the only reason they are, is because they don't want to work hard enough to get out of that position, I stand where I stood originally.
 

DeletedUser49358

Guest
The only thing that stops someone from being successful is themselves. I don't care what circumstances there may be, there is ALWAYS a way to be successful, you just need to want it. Some have to work harder than others, it's always possible. So don't tell me that "they don't want to work those jobs" because the only reason they are, is because they don't want to work hard enough to get out of that position, I stand where I stood originally.

That may be true but the Capitalist economy of the U.S. and other countries is designed to keep the large majority of people in the lower class or lower middle class and have the high class be a much smaller group. The system wants those people to stay with the jobs they have as those people are needed in working minimum wage jobs so the elites that own the companies they work for can stay as elites, and when those people with minimum wage jobs can't afford to support themselves or their families the government is who they end up going to for unemployment or WIC or other programs to help them, but the government also puts heavy taxes on those elites for U.S. spending the doesn't just go to unemployment but military spending NASA and other programs. Basically its a cycle where the minimum wage workers on the bottom are basically taken advantage of to the absolute fullest.
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
The only thing that stops someone from being successful is themselves. I don't care what circumstances there may be, there is ALWAYS a way to be successful, you just need to want it. Some have to work harder than others, it's always possible. So don't tell me that "they don't want to work those jobs" because the only reason they are, is because they don't want to work hard enough to get out of that position, I stand where I stood originally.
oh absolutely. Their compassion and human deceny is what prevents them from escaping. If their were selfish and willing to let their families starve and possible themselves they would probably do fine. So yeah their is always a way but it isn't their drive to succede that is stopping them. If they didn't have alot of motivation they wouldn't be working long hours at a dead end minimum wage job.
 

DeletedUser30636

Guest
That may be true but the Capitalist economy of the U.S. and other countries is designed to keep the large majority of people in the lower class or lower middle class and have the high class be a much smaller group. The system wants those people to stay with the jobs they have as those people are needed in working minimum wage jobs so the elites that own the companies they work for can stay as elites, and when those people with minimum wage jobs can't afford to support themselves or their families the government is who they end up going to for unemployment or WIC or other programs to help them, but the government also puts heavy taxes on those elites for U.S. spending the doesn't just go to unemployment but military spending NASA and other programs. Basically its a cycle where the minimum wage workers on the bottom are basically taken advantage of to the absolute fullest.
Why should it be the governments responsibility to fix mankinds lazy nature? There are to many 16 year olds who sit at home all day and do what I'm doing, playing video games. The problem lies within ourselves, not how much you get paid for flipping burgers
 

DeletedUser49358

Guest
Why should it be the governments responsibility to fix mankinds lazy nature? There are to many 16 year olds who sit at home all day and do what I'm doing, playing video games. The problem lies within ourselves, not how much you get paid for flipping burgers

So then mankind's lazy nature is the reason why countries like India have sweat shops or why companies continue to move factories into Mexico because they can hire workers there for considerably lower wages (workers that are in the exact same position as their counterparts in the U.S.) or is it mankind's greed that's the reason for these things.
 

DeletedUser44426

Guest
Simply put, it’s an economic no-brainier for Congress to raise the minimum wage to around $10.10, in my opinion. It will put more money into the pockets of hard-working Americans and will not negatively impact businesses and job creation. Raising the wage is a critical step in creating an economy that works for everyone, not just the wealthy few.
 

DeletedUser30636

Guest
Simply put, it’s an economic no-brainier for Congress to raise the minimum wage to around $10.10, in my opinion. It will put more money into the pockets of hard-working Americans and will not negatively impact businesses and job creation. Raising the wage is a critical step in creating an economy that works for everyone, not just the wealthy few.

$10.10 isnt to bad, i just think that raising it to $15 is ridiculous. You can survive off $10. My brother lives in California and he is able to pay for rent, food, gas, and he still has some time and money to have fun. You just have to be smart with your money.
 
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