Is Space Exploration worth the money?

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DeletedUser

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Let's get this back on track. ;)

I believe I was fully tracked Mister Thomas...

It is the discussion itself that has been dis-track-ed from the start.

We can't debate such monumental undertakings in the absolute of a conceptual world of unlimited resources... otherwise we end up (as Frozen13 pointed out) with an obvious and boring conceptual agreement. Should we explore space? of course. Should we invent an artificial liver? of course. Should we invent a car that runs on urine? of course.

But the real-world divisions that cloud obvious conceptual agreements are born upon the limits of time, resources and attention spans.

That is the heart of this debate... the prioritizing of time, wealth & human resources (human waste is another topic of high importance)

Given the lack of resources... the hard pressed tax payers of the world... the extremely slow rate of return on space exploitation... and the more pressing needs for immediate humanitarian issues... such as rampant starvation, lack of education, lack of access to medicine, crumbling infrastructure and lagging laser tattoo removal technologies... I say we postpone space exploration for a few hundred years.

Its like the stewardess (flight attendant) always say... in case of a loss in cabin pressure, put on your own mask first, before helping others put on theirs...

well, right now... the earthplane is going down... and we need to focus on our own mask... THEN we can reach out when we are ready and stable and have oxygen.

as for the battle of the Mums... pay-per-view picked up the contract... so we can ALL find out next spring... on cable channel 547
 

DeletedUser27621

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Because we are still an eon away from where we need to be when such a thing happens. Sending a rocketship to Mars is one thing, but sending a vessel capable of sustaining life for hundreds or thousands of people at the same time to other solar systems hundreds of lightyears away is a whole other scenario.
Should common sense and our knowldege of physics right now be all correct, we don't have all that much time left =)

humans have lived for approximately 3 million years in about 3 billion years the Earth will become uninhabitable because of the core's cooling so we have accomplished all of this (globalization) in 1/1000th of our species life span, if we are escaping the end of a sustainable Earth we have plenty of time left.
 

DeletedUser29066

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humans have lived for approximately 3 million years in about 3 billion years the Earth will become uninhabitable because of the core's cooling so we have accomplished all of this (globalization) in 1/1000th of our species life span, if we are escaping the end of a sustainable Earth we have plenty of time left.

That's assuming no extinction level event occurs in the interim.
 

DeletedUser

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Space exploration WOULD be worth the resources... if we didn't have far more important... or at least far more immediate... uses for those valuable limited resources.

How can you possibly condone spending billions of dollars on a Buzz Lightyear rocket truck when a child in Detroit is starving to death... or when a military veterinarian can't get decent medical care... or a high school student in Connecticut is still learning on an archaic 2nd generation I-Pad built way back in 2012?

I think you are overestimating how much of the limited resources are actually being spent on space exploration. This year, NASA's budget has been increased to $17.65 bn. Last year this was $800 million less. When one compares this to the $105.5 bn and $530.9 bn spent on Family and Children Welfare and Healthcare for seniors respectively it becomes clear that a significant chunk of resources is already being spent on the problems you mentioned. Distributing NASAs budget among these social institutions could perhaps help a few families/people more, but this would mean that the seemingly infinite stream of innovative NASA spin-off technologies would be no more. Just to indicate how much NASA technologies have contributed to the modern, here's a list of some of the inventions that would not have been the same or even possible had it not been for NASA R&D. This list is merely a fraction of the complete list;


  • Water purification/filters
  • CAT Scanners
  • Computer chips and processors
  • Light-emitting diodes (LEDs) in medical therapies
  • Long distance telecommunications
  • Infrared ear thermometers
  • Ventricular assist device
  • Cochlear Implants
  • Artificial limbs
  • Invisible braces
  • Scratch-resistant lenses
  • Improved radial tires
  • Firefighting equipment
  • Anti-corrosion Coating
  • Enriched baby food
  • Cordless tools
  • Water purification
  • Solar Cells
  • Pollution remediation
  • Structural analysis software
  • Food safety

I think it is safe to say that this long, yet still incomplete, list lists some extremely useful, live-savings and economy-boosting technologies that have helped making the world how it is today. Personally I think it is safe to say that these technologies are far more important to society in general than the handful of families that could have been helped had the budget for healthcare/welfare been almost insignificantly increased with NASA's budget.



OF course space exploitation is important to the future of our civilization... so is the development of a successful in-home Smell-o-Vision System...
I think this is an unfair comparison, as Space exploration encompasses much more than one specific, yet incredibly awesome, fictional (for now!!) machine.


In collusion.... we need to focus on exploiting the Earth before attempting to exploit the stars.
We're already fairly amazing at exploiting our planet, but that's a different topic entirely :p


And my mom would kick your mom's....
Not if my dad has anything to say about that!


We can't debate such monumental undertakings in the absolute of a conceptual world of unlimited resources... otherwise we end up (as Frozen13 pointed out) with an obvious and boring conceptual agreement. Should we explore space? of course. Should we invent an artificial liver? of course. Should we invent a car that runs on urine? of course.

But the real-world divisions that cloud obvious conceptual agreements are born upon the limits of time, resources and attention spans.

That is the heart of this debate... the prioritizing of time, wealth & human resources (human waste is another topic of high importance)

But the question wasn't whether or not we should explore space, but whether or not it was worth it. Judging by the above list, I would most definitely say yes. The incredibly small percentage (<1%) of US tax payers' money that is going to NASA is most definitely worth it.


Given the lack of resources... the hard pressed tax payers of the world... the extremely slow rate of return on space exploitation... and the more pressing needs for immediate humanitarian issues... such as rampant starvation, lack of education, lack of access to medicine, crumbling infrastructure and lagging laser tattoo removal technologies... I say we postpone space exploration for a few hundred years.

I'd wager that the result of NASA R&D has helped towards solving at least one of the problems you mentioned.


well, right now... the earthplane is going down... and we need to focus on our own mask... THEN we can reach out when we are ready and stable and have oxygen.

Quite the unfortunate analogy :p If the earthplane is going down then the one thing that could maybe save humanity would be the result of space exploration!
 
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DeletedUser

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I agree with space exploration but in all honesty why bother.

The world will probably suffer a Nuclear war within 200 years and be offskis anyway. I am a firm believer of this happening sooner rather than later. They launch, we launch, they all launch. Boom.

Save the money and help out the less fortunate while they still can. Plenty of contraception to hand out in some of these third world countries IMO. If not only to stop the poor little kids being born into that properly rubbish life.

It is fascinating and all that but the (guessing) billion pound budget given to nasa would feed and house a hell of alot of the poor kiddies being born into irresponsible lives.
 

DeletedUser3613

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Rooster and skully debating space travel is like watching neo fight morpheus in matrix one !!!! <3
 

DeletedUser

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Now as you may be able to tell by my borg cube my opinion will be a bit biased,

I believe that when we do find other life out there (advanced societies) we will begin to look at the bigger picture and it may even bring countries together and establish an earth society and break down borders to become one unified race. ("matt stole this idea from star trek wahh")


I may then fulfill my lifelong dream of becoming a starship captain only to be assimilated by the borg and use the borg's collective mind to take over grepolis :cool:
 

DeletedUser

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I agree with space exploration but in all honesty why bother.

The world will probably suffer a Nuclear war within 200 years and be offskis anyway. I am a firm believer of this happening sooner rather than later. They launch, we launch, they all launch. Boom.
Ignoring the fact that you seem to be an extremely cynical person, this attitude simply won't work in the real world. We all know we are going to die someday, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to enjoy your life and try to achieve something.


Save the money and help out the less fortunate while they still can. Plenty of contraception to hand out in some of these third world countries IMO. If not only to stop the poor little kids being born into that properly rubbish life.

It is fascinating and all that but the (guessing) billion pound budget given to nasa would feed and house a hell of alot of the poor kiddies being born into irresponsible lives.
I suggest you read my previous post again because it seems to me that you completely ignored my arguments which dealt with your suggestion

But who's Morpheus and who's Neo?
I'm the cool one, obviously :cool:


Now as you may be able to tell by my borg cube my opinion will be a bit biased,

I believe that when we do find other life out there (advanced societies) we will begin to look at the bigger picture and it may even bring countries together and establish an earth society and break down borders to become one unified race. ("matt stole this idea from star trek wahh")


I may then fulfill my lifelong dream of becoming a starship captain only to be assimilated by the borg and use the borg's collective mind to take over grepolis :cool:
Now I am all for optimism, but you and some others in this thread seem a little too optimistic. I am a firm believer that there is alien life out there, but I highly doubt we will find out for sure in any of our lifetimes. The sheer size of the universe and the current physical limitations that we have restricting our travel prevent us from doing any meaningful extrasolar space travel; this is a problem that will take centuries, no doubt, to overcome. Take a look at this to get an impression of how extremely massive the universe really is. These limitations means that we probably won't find extraterrestrial life anytime soon. Some moons in this solar system might house very simple lifeforms, but definitely nothing even coming lose to being as advanced as us, or any multicellular species on earth for that matter.

Regardless, I don't think space travel is a good thing because of potential life out there, but because it drives innovation and pushes us to overcome our limits.
 
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DeletedUser29066

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Regardless, I don't think space travel is a good thing because of potential life out there, but because it drives innovations and pushes us to overcome out limits.

I agree, but I'm still wishing for Andorian slave girls
 

DeletedUser

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Regardless, I don't think space travel is a good thing because of potential life out there, but because it drives innovation and pushes us to overcome our limits.
Well one could say the same about war...
As a direct result from the two world wars we now have:
1) Nuclear Power
2) Radio navigation
3) Radar
4) Computers
5) Jet engine
6) Pressurized cabins
7) The v2 rocket (the basis for space exploration)
8) Feminine hygine products
9) Nylon stockings

This list could go on for a long time.
This is just where human nature comes in, innovation skyrockets when You have a huge goal set in front of You and a gun pointed towards you to maintain the pressure of succeeding (sometimes literally, sometimes a little less literally).

What I'm trying to say here, is that innovation never happens for the sake of innovation, there has to be a bigger picture. In the case of space exploration we need the hope of finding someone else out there or finding a new suitable location to live or perhaps just finding the knowledge about the world around us, but You need to have a huge goal to drive the innovation wheel.
 
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DeletedUser

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Well one could say the same about war...
As a direct result from the two world wars we now have:
1) Nuclear Power
2) Radio navigation
3) Radar
4) Computers
5) Jet engine
6) Pressurized cabins
7) The v2 rocket (the basis for space exploration)
8) Feminine hygine products
9) Nylon stockings

This list could go on for a long time.
This is just where human nature comes in, innovation skyrockets when You have a huge goal set in front of You and a gun pointed towards you to maintain the pressure of succeeding (sometimes literally, sometimes a little less literally).
Very true but the rather obvious difference is that wars kill literally millions of people. That alone disregards any notion that wars are a good thing because of the technological advancements they bring with them, imo.

What I'm trying to say here, is that innovation never happens for the sake of innovation, there has to be a bigger picture. In the case of space exploration we need the hope of finding someone else out there or finding a new suitable location to live or perhaps just finding the knowledge about the world around us, but You need to have a huge goal to drive the innovation wheel.
I see where you're coming from, and I do agree that we need to set goals for ourselves to push us. Unfortunately, the governments in charge of space exploration programs don't hold too much faith in unrealistic goals. Therefore I personally think that the goals we set should be achievable, we should be able to show results. Hence the goal 'find alien life' is not feasible I think. You also said "or perhaps just finding the knowledge about the world around us" which, I think, is an excellent ambition!
 
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