Just a question..

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Miknel

Phrourach
This might be moved to Acropolis, or perhaps straight up deleted - but this is where it seems most pertinent, so it's where I'm posting. I simply have a question I'd like to pose to the community:

Why do players, especially those of us that are long time players, continue to play with / join / invite / pact with known cheaters to their alliances? I could certainly name and shame - but I'm mostly speaking to those that are aware, so I shouldn't have to. If you consider yourself to be a high caliber player that plays the game the right way and upholds certain standards for yourself, amid temptations that I'm sure are presented regularly, does it not speak to your own integrity almost more so than it does the "known cheater" if you are willingly choosing to be linked to said player by being on the same team or being linked to that player in any capacity? I doubt that I’m really the only one that sees any such associations as an indictment upon the self, but evidence would seem to contradict that. I see a lot of complaints on this forum about botting and cheating and all that, but I see very little hard-lined stances against the same behavior. People would much rather believe someone when they say "I wont do it again" or rationalize the city gain / loss as a means of making their hypocrisy acceptable. The thing that really gets me about it is that if all these people that claim to be so adamantly opposed to cheating simply took to stand to never play with / invite / join those players that have made a habit of getting themselves banned for multi-accounting and botting, then maybe those players would find themselves on the outside looking in on this game and would taper out on their own.

I could pretend this is just a philosophical question, but let's be real - it's not. This should hit home for quite a few. Ignorance can only be used as an excuse for those that are truly ignorant.
 
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XxCharlie199xX

Phrourach
This might be moved to Acropolis, or perhaps straight up deleted - but this is where it seems most pertinent, so it's where I'm posting. I simply have a question I'd like to pose to the community:

Why do players, especially those of us that are long time players, continue to play with / join / invite / pact with known cheaters to their alliances? I could certainly name and shame - but I'm mostly speaking to those that are aware, so I shouldn't have to. If you consider yourself to be a high caliber player that plays the game the right way and upholds certain standards for yourself, amid temptations that I'm sure are presented regularly, does it not speak to your own integrity almost more so than it does the "known cheater" if you are willingly choosing to be linked to said player by being on the same team or being linked to that player in any capacity? I doubt that I’m really the only one that sees any such associations as an indictment upon the self, but evidence would seem to contradict that. I see a lot of complaints on this forum about botting and cheating and all that, but I see very little hard-lined stances against the same behavior. People would much rather believe someone when they say "I wont do it again" or rationalize the city gain / loss as a means of making their hypocrisy acceptable. The thing that really gets me about it is that if all these people that claim to be so adamantly opposed to cheating simply took to stand to never play with / invite / join those players that have made a habit of getting themselves banned for multi-accounting and botting, then maybe those players would find themselves on the outside looking in on this game and would taper out on their own.

I could pretend this is just a philosophical question, but let's be real - it's not. This should hit home for quite a few. Ignorance can only be used as an excuse for those that are truly ignorant.
Its all about protection. People run where its easiest to hide, simple. Few want a challenge anymore so they side with these "people"
 
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Jalmundr the Bear

Hipparchus
Welcome to Grepolis, where you can cheat and get away with it so long as you spend a specified amount of money to buy gold because money is more important than holding people accountable to the rules you create. Grepo <3's Fraud
 

Arzaac

Phrourach
Welcome to Grepolis, where you can cheat and get away with it so long as you spend a specified amount of money to buy gold because money is more important than holding people accountable to the rules you create. Grepo <3's Fraud

Then why you play ? You are just complaining about the game owner, yet you spend time here, and play. The way it works ----> dont like it ? stop playing and supporting it.

Miknel on other hand, is implying nothing against Grepo, but against individuals, who are keeping their eyes shut when it comes to cheaters, and with their actions, they are accepting the actions of cheaters.
 

Jalmundr the Bear

Hipparchus
Then why you play ? You are just complaining about the game owner, yet you spend time here, and play. The way it works ----> dont like it ? stop playing and supporting it.

Miknel on other hand, is implying nothing against Grepo, but against individuals, who are keeping their eyes shut when it comes to cheaters, and with their actions, they are accepting the actions of cheaters.
The "individuals" would be the Mods.. This is a RAMPANT issue on the US Servers. But I'm not complaining about it. People cheat because they suck at this game. Trust me, it's fun as hell showing everyone how pathetic of a player they really are. Hiding behind mass gold, bots, and other cheats to be remotely relevant and then when someone who actually knows what they're doing comes along, they cry, cry some more, and cry even more, then ghost. Or Checkout VM. People are so predictable in this game now that it's not really a challenge strategy wise. Most lose now because of the "pay to win" feature that's now heavily supported and some don't have as big wallets as others.
 

The DeamonBG

Phrourach
Miknel is absolutely right, though he did not mean only what Jalmundr explained. Mods can turn a blind eye, if the community casts those people out they won't have anything to do here. And as it is all shits and giggles for some, cheating is an issue everywhere, Charlie shut your damn mouth for once and be serious instead of whining and trying to promote your empire everywhere you can get the chance to. Cuz those suggestions you make are starting to get predictable, I bet that if there was someone going around saying JFL are unkilled people who only win through gold and cheats you are gonna raise hell here and make it a warzone.
 

molinillo

Chiliarch
I doubt the moral high ground and community can make a change, cheating is more widespread and accepted than any of us would actually think.

My latest attempt to make a change using community was informing a whole alliance in MM about their founder's presumed bot (reports attached). The response even surprised me. I got a list of other presumed botters from members of same alliance. After a temporary chaos everything went back to normal, some players (presumed botters) relocated. Then I was asked not too be too hard on a player from the list who only uses farmbot when they suffered too big losses. Isn't that cheating anymore... ??? Apparently no. Alliances and community are rather forgiving, especially when players try to change and make efforts. Good or bad, decide yourself. /Please don't try to speculate which world, it is irrelevant, I didn't use names for a reason./

In my opinion the only realistic options are: quality changes (include features that bots provide for money or exclude/change functions that they abuse) / block all third-party scripts... I feel a tidal wave of hatred is coming after this from all sides..., but that's why we are stuck, it requires too big sacrifice which quite honestly no one would be willing to make, therefore these discussions are close to pointless.
 
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XxCharlie199xX

Phrourach
I doubt the moral high ground and community can make a change, cheating is more widespread and accepted than any of us would actually think.

My latest attempt to make a change using community was informing a whole alliance in MM about their founder's presumed bot (reports attached). The response even surprised me. I got a list of other presumed botters from members of same alliance. After a temporary chaos everything went back to normal, some players (presumed botters) relocated. Then I was asked not too be too hard on a player from the list who only uses farmbot when they suffered too big losses. Isn't that cheating anymore... ??? Apparently no. Alliances and community are rather forgiving, especially when players try to change and make efforts. Good or bad, decide yourself. /Please don't try to speculate which world, it is irrelevant, I didn't use names for a reason./

In my opinion the only realistic options are: quality changes (include features that bots provide for money or exclude/change functions that they abuse) / block all third-party scripts... I feel a tide wave of hatred is coming after this from all sides..., but that's why we are stuck, it requires too big sacrifice which quite honestly no one would be willing to make, therefore these discussions are close to pointless.
You doubt the community could make a change is what it comes down to? Don't you find this ironic considering you are the same person who made a forum for "stopping spam", then continue to spam players for 9 hours straight? It is also ironic you speak about botting when you defend players inside of bedtime who have been blatant in the past. Not sure how you can judge others for not putting up a sacrifice for your ideas when you sit here and are literally the exact person who are trying to call out with this message. A hypocrite.

Who let these US council members onto EN forums :(
 

Jalmundr the Bear

Hipparchus
The US servers are corrupt beyond all hell and HOPEFULLY it's new COMA can save it. But it's on it's dying breath. That's why I'm here. So far, it's NOWHERE near as bad. But, it's only a matter of time I suppose. Winning over there is so easy now. I was hoping it'd be different here but so far, it's just as easy if not easier.. But, this is only my first EN world so.. We'll see..
 

The DeamonBG

Phrourach
Winning over there is so easy now. I was hoping it'd be different here but so far, it's just as easy if not easier.. But, this is only my first EN world so.. We'll see..
Once you've taken some cities from a real alliance, then you are entitled to say this ;) So far you haven't won anything here, don't forget that. Fighting small players in the rim is pretty easy, cuz most don't use alarm so it is not something to measure up to.
 

molinillo

Chiliarch
@XxCharlie199xX

Regarding this topic the community has one power - manipulate with someone's reputation, without factual knowledge or providing any data to do so. Only my word against your word.

Support has tools and data.
From these two options, I trust the latter more, even if I experience that the problem is bigger.

Community has constructive ideas and feedback that can be transformed into game changes, therefore I always participated and promoted the importance of sharing these ideas, even before Player Council existed, now it is a job I volunteered to do and I believe in it. What do you do to make a change? Other than you are my muse when it comes to spam and you are the one who spams 24/7...
 

myzticality

Phrourach
inb4 charlie manages to derail the conversation

Innogames should just implement mouse tracking in order to detect bots. It's more effective than captchas and it'd be very very difficult to create a bot with human-like mouse movements that don't repeat over and over again.
 

KingMolly

Chiliarch
@XxCharlie199xX

Regarding this topic the community has one power - manipulate with someone's reputation, without factual knowledge or providing any data to do so. Only my word against your word.

Support has tools and data.
From these two options, I trust the latter more, even if I experience that the problem is bigger.

Community has constructive ideas and feedback that can be transformed into game changes, therefore I always participated and promoted the importance of sharing these ideas, even before Player Council existed, now it is a job I volunteered to do and I believe in it. What do you do to make a change? Other than you are my muse when it comes to spam and you are the one who spams 24/7...
lol i take it you do not spam? well i know you sure know how to lose cities.. PRO PLAYER
 

Jalmundr the Bear

Hipparchus
Once you've taken some cities from a real alliance, then you are entitled to say this ;) So far you haven't won anything here, don't forget that. Fighting small players in the rim is pretty easy, cuz most don't use alarm so it is not something to measure up to.
Coming from the dude with nowhere the BP count I have and I was in VM for a week. But okay champ, come on out here and experience for yourself these "non-alarm players". Let me know when you find one! As for "taking a real city", pleaseeee. You probably couldn't take a city from any of these guys out here. News Flash, Already been OPed by a CORE ALLIANCE vs just myself and guess what? Wrecked them. And made many more of their players quit.

Hell, I've even cleared multiple BT people, D&D, GWN/BWNs, and other "real alliances". Honestly, how I see it, NONE of the alliances here in this world would last a second in even a basic US world. This world has HORRIBLE competition. Another month and it's decided. IF I play another EN world, hopefully it'll have some alliances/people worth noting. So far, there's only one alliance here and that's JFL. Everyone else is scrub.

I'm freaking simming and doing more than most people are in this world, including you bud. So maybe build some credibility before calling someone out next time ;)
 

The DeamonBG

Phrourach
Such a hit on my confidence :D I guess I have to defend myself and say that for the first month of the server i had 2 cities as I wasn't sure I was gonna be playing. I joined an alliance 3 weeks ago when i had 3-4 cities and probably next to no BPs :D So valid argument, you have more BPs.
But why are we having this convo here, when I should just throw you in the trash talk where you belong. I've played with some so called US server winners, those were my most pathethic allies, honestly. I don't see you having taken a city from a decent alliance, and I certainly don't care if you cleared some stranded simmers in the big alliances. And who the hell OPed you. Now, take cover in the alliance which has no allies and fights everyone around them
.

Edit: Sorry I can't take someone with a hitlist on his profile seriously, I just can't :D
 
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Jalmundr the Bear

Hipparchus
The bio thing is a joke honestly. Though, I do have a kill list. Better hope you're not on it big baddie ;)

And yeah, I'll agree with you, the US servers are horrible. Hugathon diplomacy, drama, everyone talks all big and bad and ghosts next day, people throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way, say people, same strategies, over and over again. It's boring now and super predictable. So 100% agree with you bud. But then again, you haven't fought me either so, watch out ;) hehe!

But fair enough. Keep growing then. I'm on my way to the core and going to burn through anyone in my way :)

As for "fights everyone", sounds like no shortage of BP to me.. when i lead teams, I RARELY have any pacts/naps with anyone. I usually do the same. And always win too. Sure, they have their uses, but need to be used correctly. Not just "oh hey everyone lets team up to take down big bad ally whose fighting everyone", or the whole "can we share oceans", and my favorite "sent you a pact request from the other side of the ma and not going to talk at all about why I sent it" kind of pact requests lol
 

crazy cowboy

Phrourach
Coming from the dude with nowhere the BP count I have and I was in VM for a week. But okay champ, come on out here and experience for yourself these "non-alarm players". Let me know when you find one! As for "taking a real city", pleaseeee. You probably couldn't take a city from any of these guys out here. News Flash, Already been OPed by a CORE ALLIANCE vs just myself and guess what? Wrecked them. And made many more of their players quit.

Hell, I've even cleared multiple BT people, D&D, GWN/BWNs, and other "real alliances". Honestly, how I see it, NONE of the alliances here in this world would last a second in even a basic US world. This world has HORRIBLE competition. Another month and it's decided. IF I play another EN world, hopefully it'll have some alliances/people worth noting. So far, there's only one alliance here and that's JFL. Everyone else is scrub.

I'm freaking simming and doing more than most people are in this world, including you bud. So maybe build some credibility before calling someone out next time ;)
you think JFL is the only good alliance.. why exactly?
 

Jalmundr the Bear

Hipparchus
you think JFL is the only good alliance.. why exactly?
So far****

I've been playing this game for many years my friend and I know good and bad teams when I see them. I'm not saying JFL is the end all. May be, may not be. You also need to consider I'm speaking from a limited perspective in terms of fighting; That, being in 54/64/65/53 areas.

Although I watch all teams and all players, in how they fight, where they conquer cities, how quickly they build, reload, how their OPs are organized and executed and etc, I'm just saying that this world, in comparison to other worlds I've played, is mediocre at best in competition overall. Not saying there aren't really good players here. There are for sure. But, if you look at my trash talk post (the last one about "many drinks in"), it's pretty relevant.

In time, as I meet up with others, of course my viewpoints will change.

The world is early and young. The team that wins this "round" of the world is the one with the biggest firepower and best response time, and so far, that's JFL. Keep in mind though, worlds typically go through 3 or 4 phases. We're still in the 1st phase of this world. During "round 2", 3 & 4, we'll see more changes, new teams, people gone, rivals allied, more vm checkouts and "leaving because of RL issues" (not that some aren't valid), and etc. The map will change alliance wise, but people wise, not so much. Everyone's virtually pretty set in where they're going to be come WWs.
 
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