Passed Late Game NPC Farming

[DeletedUser]

Search
Does this idea appear in the Previously Suggested Ideas List? No
Have you performed a search using key words from the title of your proposal and read any related threads? Yes

Proposal
New farming feature for late game players.

Reason
It is already pretty well known that late game farming is an issue for many people. The more towns you get the more trouble it is to farm the NPC barbarian farms. Especially with strengthening being required and having 96 farms and more to both strengthen and farm from.

Some people argue that after so long you don't need to farm at all.
Well, yes, you do.

If you plan to use every town in attacks, defending, supporting or fighting of any kind then you will need to rebuild troops and ships. A maxed warehouse can only create 57 chariots in one go, then you will need to restock your stone if you want to round them off to 100 or more.

Ships are even more important, 19 Light Ships is the max build in a harbor from a full warehouse. I have lost 65 and more in a single attack. So to rebuild those ships I had to use call of ocean, farm the NPC farms, move resources from other towns, use kingly gifts and farm the NPC farms some more and hit my player farms as well.

This is a long grinding process and can keep a person occupied for hours just hitting all their farms and rebuilding all their troops and ships. The slow farming process slows the building even more... at some point you go to sleep, work, school or whatever and when you return your god spell has ran out and you didn't manage to get those last troops into the queue in time.

See: Farming Discussion
So for these reasons and many more, I suggest this following idea.


Details
One last new building in your town. (Kind of)
Name: Agora level 2.
Cost: 20,000 Wood, 20,000 Stone, 20,000 Silver.
Pop: Zero
Location: Agora
Appearance: Upgraded fountain.
Requirements: Must own either, "Tower, Merchant Shop, Oracle, Divine Statue"
AND
either, "Lighthouse, Theater, Library or Thermal Baths."
Only owning both will allow you to upgrade your Agora.

After building your "Agora level 2" you will receive the following options in your Agora:
[Demand Resources] - [Trade] - [Diplomacy]

Demand Resources
Click on Demand Resources and a list will follow listing all your towns on that island. It will also include their resources and their mood with following options that will be explained.

Koskou - 2000 Stone - 2000 Wood - 2000 Silver - 100% Mood - [Collect] - [Diplomacy] - [Demand Troops]
Drakey - 1950 Stone - 1950 Wood - 1949 Silver - 99% Mood - [Collect] - [Diplomacy] - [Demand Troops]
Kosdou - 100 Stone - 100 Wood - 100 Silver - 62% Mood - [Collect] - [Diplomacy] - [Demand Troops]

Explanation of use

Click on collect and the mood drops to 60% and the resources drop to Zero.
Every 1% Mood is 50 of each resource and is 1% per hour.
The time of resource delivery is equal to trade time if you had traded with that town.

Due to the Diplomacy option in the Academy that allows you to farm at a lower mood rating, I had to think of a workaround that would make the tech still worth researching. At first I thought that you need the tech in order to build the agora level 2, but decided there should be a better option. That is what the [Diplomacy] option is for.
By clicking Diplomacy you can double the speed of mood regeneration by 100% for the duration of 6 hours on a standard setting server. 3 hours on a x2 speed server. This is because on a x2 speed server the mood will already rise 2% per hour anyway.
Diplomacy accumulates like God favor only faster and is subject per agora not per account. The speed it accumulates is 10 per hour.
Name: "Wisdom?" "Nobility?" - "Other..?" = 10 Nobility per hour. (For now I will call it Nobility)
If you have researched Diplomacy in your Academy, you get 15 per hour.
The cost to use Diplomacy in your Agora Level 2 is "100 Nobility per NPC Farm" with a maximum of 400 Nobility per Agora.


[Trade]
The trade would work as normal, only you can do it from your Agora instead of clicking the towns individually on the map screen.

Kosdou - Mood 100% - Ratio 1:1.25 - Wood:Stone - [Select amount to trade here]

Sorry for not creating pictures to explain easier and give visual aids. But I am sure you have traded with NPC farms before and know how it works. For towns with a Merchant Shop the Ratio would state: 1:1.35 same as normal.

[Diplomacy]

Clicking this basically shows how much "Nobility" you have in the agora at the time. Though perhaps this could be shown in the [Demand Resources] tab instead.

[Demand Troops]
This works the same as normal and only if you have Demand troops researched in the towns Academy.

Balance
Every player would be able to get this whether they pay for gold or not, it is a fair feature that allows everyone the same option once they get far enough into the game. It also gets rid of repetitive grinding farming issues that bore larger players and takes away the fun aspects of the game. How can people attack other people when they are using their quick units to farm all day long. This would also allow farming to proceed when they are sending out full force attacks AND the farming to proceed if their attack fails.

Abuse Prevention
Some players have multiple towns on the same island. This already effects their farming and could present some issues, the answer presents itself though.
The agora level 2 automatically locks all farms from being farmed by you and therefore does not effect strength. Your other towns can not farm them either. Your other farms can however build an agora level 2.

The second problem is in the "Nobility" Gathered. As it is accumulated per town and not per account, this would mean their other towns on the island get twice as much Nobility to restore their farms moods.
To prevent this, there is only one fair way that I can think of.
- Town A has a level 2 Agora
- Town B has a level 2 Agora
- The island has 8 NPC farms in the middle of the island. Town A can only demand resources and use diplomacy on the 4 closest. Town B can only use demand resources and use diplomacy on the 4 closest. This evens them out. As there are 2 Agoras level 2 on the island, each agora caps at 200 Nobility. This makes conquering on the same island as unappealing as it already is.

The final problem is Demand Troops.
One town may have Demand Troops and another on the island does not. Only the one that has the tech can demand troops from the towns in the list found within their Agora.

"Option 2 same island agoras"
An easier option may be that second towns on the same island do not have the capability to build a level 2 agora due to one altready existing on the island owned by you. This would mean those other towns need to be sent resources from the town that does have it. Though these towns could still trade with the NPC farms as normal, they would not be able to farm or strengthen those towns due to players then working around the Agora level 2. Another problem with second towns not being able to build one is if their main town get's conquered. They would have to build another.

One final option for work around that I can think of is: "Option 3 same island agoras"
You can select which of your towns is the "Main" town of the island and from there you can use the level 2 Agora. This means you could swap which town was demanding resources in accordance to which town needed them. The Accumulated Nobility of the Agora would transfer along with ability to demand resources and so on.
- This would cause a small hindrance, but just adds to the "don't conquer on same island" reasons that already exist.

I am sure there are many ways to work around this problem, ideas would be welcome.

To aid abuse prevention, a level 2 agora can not be demolished nor hit by lightning, thus the reason of its cost despite being such a small upgrade.

Summary
This idea evolved several times as I was working out all of the ins and outs involved. Without same island conquest this would have been far easier to explain, resolve and probably put in to use. Due to same island conquests I met more challenges with the idea than I first anticipated and as a result I feel there are more kinks that need working out.

Any and all input regarding this idea (especially that helps the idea evolve and expand) would be greatly appreciated.

Please note I asked for input. I don't want "+1" or "I like it" or "I don't like it"
If you don't have anything proper to say I would much prefer you didn't say anything at all. You can explain what parts are bad, why it is bad and if anything what you think would work better - but please don't just spam up the replies with pointless rubbish.

If you want to express you like it, do the same as those who say they dislike it. Say: "I like this idea because...." and give a valid reason "because... its good" is not a valid reason. (In fact I am just going to post a reply as if I was not the author to give a suitable example)

 

[DeletedUser]

I like the direction this idea is going because of reasons stated in the idea.

The chore of farming when you get more towns gets more and more tedious and requires more and more time. To have fully functioning towns that work at maximum capacity all the time you are required to farm the in island NPC farms even late on when you have 10+ or even 20+ towns all with level 40 mines, timber camps and quarries.

Farming those inland farms becomes a hassle after so many towns and yet it is still needed to be done. As much as people can argue otherwise, those who build troops and ships and attack other people constantly from ALL of their towns know that this is true.

I would like to see where this idea leads. - Option 3 same island conquests is my personal favorite work around.

(This is an example of a response and not pointless rubbish that does not help the idea get anywhere - Like it or hate it, please post proper replies)

 

[DeletedUser2795]

Okay, I like the work and stuff put into it, but how about make it just another overview at agora level 2, where you can just click 'farm' on a NPC village in the overview and it will automatically send over some troops (eg, you have it set to send the perfect number of strengthening waves in horses and then to send a 65 horse (with booty researched) wave for farming). A warning would pop up if you tried to farm a village that would retaliate. I just do not like adding a new feature to the game (well, compared to morale/revolt, :S). But if it was just like a convenient overview, then I would like it, and I believe that almost anyone who has more then 4 cities would like it too.
Edit: as Priscilla says, I do not want troops involvement to get removed.

 

[DeletedUser]

This is probably the best thought out, and probably one of the most logical solutions to late game farming. I still only have 4 cities, and it's still a hassle. Although, as it is trade speed, maybe you should have to hire merchants in the Agora lv. 2, these could cost maybe 1000 silver, and would be able to collect 1000 resources from farming villages. I also quite like the new use for diplomacy. If I had a spare culture point, it would be the one I would remove. One thing I will say though, is that although this removes strengthen, it means that you must wait for 100% mood the full 6000 resources. Also, what happens to the strength of the farm when you collect? Is there no change?

 

[DeletedUser]

Sounds like phoning for pizza.

All in all a great idea. The one area I have a problem is the removal of troop involvement. Simcity players could get by with just training a single swordsman, a bireme and a transport to accompany a colony ship. They could then dial up all the pizza shops and when it was delivered, they could use their level 98 market to send the resources on to the colonies.

Another problem is that you lock out the ability of using farms for dodging purposes. The way things are going, islands with a single player village will become common.

Also a cleared city could recover much faster without the need to retrain troops in order to farm. Especially if they could farm all eight with just a few clicks. Delivered in 10 minutes or your next order is free.

Automating the process of sending troops to strenghten and farm is a good idea. Taking the troops out of the equation, not so hot. I say, make them use the drivethrough!

 

[DeletedUser]

yeah I agree with prissy, However It's a very good Idea. You should just add in the *you need 165 horses to carry out this option, Or 500 archers ect ect.* That way it's the same as farming as you need the troops, and while that is happening those troops are missing from your city. Would make farming faster and easier.

 

[DeletedUser2795]

Yeah, I would not mind simply having like 150 horses (or whatever number of troops) out on strengthening missions 24/7 and whenever you wanted to farm you just clicked farm and it sent of a farming wave. Or some system similar to that.

 

[DeletedUser]

Edit: as Priscilla says, I do not want troops involvement to get removed.

Troops involvement is only taken away from the farming aspect. Early game this is an essential feature to Grepolis, but late game it becomes tedious and more.

See: Farming Discussion

That will express my point pretty clearly.

This is probably the best thought out, and probably one of the most logical solutions to late game farming. I still only have 4 cities, and it's still a hassle. Although, as it is trade speed, maybe you should have to hire merchants in the Agora lv. 2, these could cost maybe 1000 silver, and would be able to collect 1000 resources from farming villages. I also quite like the new use for diplomacy. If I had a spare culture point, it would be the one I would remove. One thing I will say though, is that although this removes strengthen, it means that you must wait for 100% mood the full 6000 resources. Also, what happens to the strength of the farm when you collect? Is there no change?

Nice thought on the hiring of merchants. Really like that contribution and I will see if I can work it in somewhere on a late edit when more ideas come in.

- As for strengthen, the agora level 2 would remove that feature as the idea explains. The Diplomacy Option gives you faster mood growth and the mood itself effects how many resources you can collect from the towns. 50 of each resource per mood percentage. The lowest it ever goes is 60% Mood and that is Zero resources. This is because the town is always happy with the arrangement they have with you but will only give you the resources they can afford. They are happiest when they have full stock and that is when you would gain maximum resources.
With the Diplomacy option used on a town to double the mood growth, it would take 20 hours total for mood to reach 100 again, that is max loot twice inside 24 hours. Though some people wont mind waiting it out for the 40 hours or will only cut out 24 hours by using the diplomacy feature twice on one town.

(Sorry if I am failing to explain myself clearly, writing before sleeping is never a good idea)

The reason I took troops out of the mix with farming barbarian farms is because you already use them to farm other players, to attack other players and to defend yourself. Without the strengthen feature you would only be waiting on mood anyway.
Due to the Agora level 2 presenting a solution the barbarian villages like, they would no longer fight you and you would no longer need to "Attack" their towns for resources or any other form of attack.

The agora level 2 is purely an agreement with your barbarian towns. (From storyline point of view)
... From a gaming point of view, it is a far easier feature to farm for resources without having to strengthen 96 farms before looting them for resources.

 

[DeletedUser2795]

Troops involvement is only taken away from the farming aspect. Early game this is an essential feature to Grepolis, but late game it becomes tedious and more.

See: Farming Discussion

That will express my point pretty clearly.

Oh, so as priscilla says, sim-city players never have to build any units and they will be fine until someone conquers them, which hardly ever seems to happen (ah, for the old emoticons ) And I see nothing in that thread about no troops involvement, I just see complaints about tedium. Only you mentioned taking troops out of the equation, troops should be used for this, it is a part of the game to have to account for having enough troops to farm with.

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh, so as priscilla says, sim-city players never have to build any units and they will be fine until someone conquers them, which hardly ever seems to happen (ah, for the old emoticons ) And I see nothing in that thread about no troops involvement, I just see complaints about tedium. Only you mentioned taking troops out of the equation, troops should be used for this, it is a part of the game to have to account for having enough troops to farm with.

I meant the reasons I opted for the no troops involvement is expressed in that discussion. Not that they want to stop using the troops, just that the farming issues raised has a lot to do with "time it takes" ... and taking out the troops involvement solves it. The discussion led to my opinion that "Soldiers" should stop being "farmers" not that anyone in the discussion said troops should not be needed to farm.

As for sim-city players, I disagree completely.
A big reason people don't attack other players as much as they could or would is because they need to keep troops back for farming and defending. 75 Chariots are required to get max loot from a farm... 65 horses... both of which would be better served in attacks instead. People hold them back because they don't want to farm with Archers again.
With troops taken out of the farming aspect, players that actually take part in fighting benefit more than sim-city players.

Sim-city people gain a good city and have no troops, they can only grow so large, then what are they going to do? Sit around and wait for someone to conquer their one and only town?
- No, they build troops and go all out in attacks because they don't need troops for farming. They haven't had troops for weeks and haven't been attacked, so they don't care about having none again.

Players that do get involved in fighting have extra troops that they only used for farming that no longer need to farm. They get to fight with them instead. My opinion is let the troops go to war... Not become resource carriers!

You are entitled to your opinion and I see your point of view, but you haven't convinced me why it is needed late game. Early game yes, late game no.

Many people on here are hung up on Tribal Wars and I am always seeing mention of it. Like "Tribal Wars could handle 100+ cities - manage 1000+ cities but Grepolis can't. On TW you didn't even need to farm once you got so many cities."

Well. I am not from Tribal Wars, I never played it once in my life, I didn't even make an account and peek at it. So I have no clue what they are on about. But I do agree that something should be done about farming for late game players and as I have seen no ideas, I gave one of my own based on Grepolis No outside influences.

 

[DeletedUser2795]

I meant the reasons I opted for the no troops involvement is expressed in that discussion. Not that they want to stop using the troops, just that the farming issues raised has a lot to do with "time it takes" ... and taking out the troops involvement solves it. The discussion led to my opinion that "Soldiers" should stop being "farmers" not that anyone in the discussion said troops should not be needed to farm.

As for sim-city players, I disagree completely.
A big reason people don't attack other players as much as they could or would is because they need to keep troops back for farming and defending. 75 Chariots are required to get max loot from a farm... 65 horses... both of which would be better served in attacks instead. People hold them back because they don't want to farm with Archers again.
With troops taken out of the farming aspect, players that actually take part in fighting benefit more than sim-city players.

Sim-city people gain a good city and have no troops, they can only grow so large, then what are they going to do? Sit around and wait for someone to conquer their one and only town?
- No, they build troops and go all out in attacks because they don't need troops for farming. They haven't had troops for weeks and haven't been attacked, so they don't care about having none again.

Players that do get involved in fighting have extra troops that they only used for farming that no longer need to farm. They get to fight with them instead. My opinion is let the troops go to war... Not become resource carriers!

You are entitled to your opinion and I see your point of view, but you haven't convinced me why it is needed late game. Early game yes, late game no.

Many people on here are hung up on Tribal Wars and I am always seeing mention of it. Like "Tribal Wars could handle 100+ cities - manage 1000+ cities but Grepolis can't. On TW you didn't even need to farm once you got so many cities."

Well. I am not from Tribal Wars, I never played it once in my life, I didn't even make an account and peek at it. So I have no clue what they are on about. But I do agree that something should be done about farming for late game players and as I have seen no ideas, I gave one of my own based on Grepolis No outside influences.

Well, I want at least some idea that is more then just clicking a button once every 12 hours (or whatever) and the resources just appear at your door. At the very least create like a unit that is one population, has 250 carrying capacity and has a speed of 30 and is exempt from the battle field (in a similar way to how transport ships are) such that only if all other units die, then they die.

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand how diplomacy would work if this was implemented, I mean it gives it a new use, and it's the one I would reset now if this wasn't going to happen. For strength, I mean will it change for OTHER players?

 

[DeletedUser]

Didn't read through all of this thread yet, only the first post in depth. Good idea, but why make it more complicated than it needs to be? My proposal:

In the village overview, have a button labeled "Loot Farming Villages", a popup opens that lets you input the amount of troops you want to use for this (a warning should be displayed if you attempt to use too many troops due to the island having been farmed excessively already), and off they go - 3 clicks to do a complete farming raid of your island without even having to load the map screen. If you own multiple cities on the same island, it's up to you to choose the one that'll do the raid, usually the one that requires resources the most, your other polis are then just left to pick up the remainders.

For premium users with administrator activated, you can have a "Farming Overview", here you get all your villages on one page and you select the same things as above, when all boxes are filled in, you click the "Loot" button at the bottom of this page and you're done.

 

[DeletedUser]

How would strength work with that idea?

 

[DeletedUser]

automatically - the game will calculate the required troops to farm the island the most effective way taking into account mood and strength. No changes needed to the mood/strength system. This would basically be an enhancement of the "Grepo Farmer Script" which is approved --> http://forum.en.grepolis.com/showthread.php?t=5171

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand how diplomacy would work if this was implemented, I mean it gives it a new use, and it's the one I would reset now if this wasn't going to happen. For strength, I mean will it change for OTHER players?

The strength would only be negated from the player who no longer "attacked" it for resources. Strength would not be needed would it. I think I explained on an earlier post when also replying to JPK3nt

By the way Kent, not sure the quote of ALL that was really necessary. But I do like that you contributed your version for solution. Someone (I forget who right now) mentioned the purchase of a "merchant" for the level 2 agora or something similar at a cost and it fits a similar description to yours... I said i would try and work it in on a later edit when more ideas come in as I really like the thought of something other than just clicking a button too. (though really that is all that we do now anyway)

In the village overview, have a button labeled "Loot Farming Villages", a popup opens that lets you input the amount of troops you want to use for this (a warning should be displayed if you attempt to use too many troops due to the island having been farmed excessively already), and off they go - 3 clicks to do a complete farming raid of your island without even having to load the map screen. If you own multiple cities on the same island, it's up to you to choose the one that'll do the raid, usually the one that requires resources the most, your other polis are then just left to pick up the remainders.

For premium users with administrator activated, you can have a "Farming Overview", here you get all your villages on one page and you select the same things as above, when all boxes are filled in, you click the "Loot" button at the bottom of this page and you're done.

Part of my idea, and why I didn't go for something more basic, is that it should be a feature that only comes into play late game. The farming concept as it is remains an important aspect for people "new" to the game or starting over. It is only late game when soldiers are being used for fighting and some are left in reserve for farming - or when you have 96+ farms - and more reasons beside that farming becomes an issue. This idea is more to combat those problems for late game players.

When I first started on this idea, I didn't think it was complicated. It just ended up that way as I gave it more thought. I am sure if you went to all of the ins and outs of your idea, you would find it isn't quite that simple either. Do they strengthen in advance? do they go out come back go out come back and repeat over and over until every farm is done? ... where does diplomacy from academy, strengthening towns and everything else fit into the idea, how does it work? If you could write your idea out fully, I would fully enjoy reading it all and giving my opinion on it.

Though my idea is a little complicated, its is a faster easier and more efficient farming method than the one currently in use ... at least it is for people who have 20+ towns. If it's this bad now, what happens at 40 towns, 50 towns and more.

... Thanks for the comment by the way Hans. Your input is appreciated mate. Hope my reply satisfies you.

 

[DeletedUser]

Do they strengthen in advance? do they go out come back go out come back and repeat over and over until every farm is done?

Depends on how many troops you have available - if you have enough troops to raid the island in one go and squeeze the maximum resources out of the farms, then one click is all you need. If you have 8 farms each at 100 mood 50 strength, then you would need to come back later when your troops have returned and farm the next 2 or 3 villages, which ones that would be depends on the traveltime: In the first run, the game would send your troops to the nearest farms, your second wave would go to the ones a bit further away, and so on.

where does diplomacy from academy, strengthening towns and everything else fit into the idea, how does it work?......

You wouldn't need to bother about that - with diplomacy researched, your troops would farm down until strength is 60%, if you don't have diplomacy, 80% is the end of the line. The game would take this into account as well.

 

[DeletedUser]

hmm... that doesn't seem to be an improvement on the hassle already presented. Just a little bit more complicated of the version we have. Just as much messing around as now and just as much of a chore. Without strengthening in advance as well... you wouldn't get max loot, like you don't already.

And I think you meant your troops would farm down to 60% mood, not strength

in my idea, its mostly a shortened process but I admit mine has many kinks too.. I have made loads of notes and will update the idea soon. Your own comments brought some ideas forward to.

 

[DeletedUser]

yes, I meant 60% mood.

My proposal:
Village overview --> Loot Island --> Input 300 horses --> send.
2 Villages strengthened and farmed.

As it is now:
Map --> check available farms --> 25 horses strengthen --> 25 horses strengthen --> 25 horses strengthen --> 9 horses strengthen --> 65 horses --> farm. Next farm --> 25 horses strengthen --> 25 horses strengthen --> 25 horses strengthen --> 9 horses strengthen --> 65 horses --> farm.

Now you count the clicks

 

[DeletedUser2795]

I would not mind HaekalHansi's idea, but part of the reason I want to avoid BuckyKev's is because that one would change a game mechanic by a large amount. And as I said in my last post, I would be fine if you wanted to create an entirely new 'farming unit' which had like an insane (500 :S) loot, high speed (30-40), and only cost you 1 population, even though the farms treated it as 10 when strengthening. But as I said in my first sentence in this post, HaekalHansi's idea would work with me, I am just trying to make everyone happy by (a) not changing a game mechanic too much, (b) satisfying BuckyKev by trying to lower troop involvement, and (c) make something that makes some sense.