less and less people :(

ErikWijmeersch

Strategos
Every server less and less people play the game we love.

why? and what to do about?

I am not a share holder, but hope to keep playing.

here suggestions.


1. end game :

Invest in something new so there are no longer massive alliances with academies and twin+sisters.
(yes i was perhaps the first with gold crown rotation system) so up to me maybe to advise how to avoid it in future!

Victor award = build 4 WW / 7.

Master award = build 5 wW/7. Ones 5 are build the team has to keep all 5 WW isalnds 3 months (use a timer).

Closing server = 24 hours after Master award is won : hopefull this result in the end of rotation systems!

2. awards profile.

We play for fun and awards, profile should be different for players won 3 worlds than those won only 1 world - to give an idea - use golden stars as in army??? general stars...

3. gold:

Find a better balance, today to much gold influence the game, better have 50k customers / server spending 50 euro / month than 50 people spending 1k / month.

4. Events:

Events are awesome but customers become to see those no longer as rewards for us but as milk cows chance it.
Create a better balance again, win win for both Inno - customers.

5 Myths

This can be combined with number 4, events.

My suggestion, Make Myths even more powerfull, i hear you all saying what??!!!

Each player can build myths, but only at an XXX% of his totall cities, for example, every 10th city u can build a myth nuke.

1. = creating that balance, during events people migth see it worth it to spend cash for myths, but no longer all thousends of those flyers are heading our way lol.

2. = By having limited cities with myths you bring back skills ingame, now it is just send myths and lightships, no more timing needed cause you cannot lose transports lol.


Mods :

People think i dislike mods, iis not true they are needed, in past many times i was helped by them.
Many times i got also bad experience.

make mods more customer friendly. we are clients.
 

mungus1974

Strategos
2, 3 and 4 totally agree.What INNO does not realize is that every server has less and less players.Look at EN89, people voted for those settings and yet not many players joined the server.You must do something or this game will be dead in near future.
At the start i was really against gold trade but now looks like that was not that bad move after all, no no one can complain about not having gold because it is easy to get gold.Instant buy i still don`t like it even if i must admit i used and give me edge over my enemies.

Number 5 i think INNO made good balance for offensive units but some of the defensive units are still bad.How many Minotaurs yo see in the game?
Hades and Artemis are way to strong if you compare them with other gods, fix that, it is not that hard thing to do it, ask your costumers what to do.

And finally my favorite, number one end game.We are asking for this for years and you do nothing.I agree with Erik, you need to do something to change this sister, brother, cousin alliances thing.
If you don`t know what to do ask!
Some years ago you did Persian Conquest, great idea for end game you just need to modify little bit.People are leaving because it is boring to win a world with only sending resources.
 

herefordgrl

Phrourach
Erik, some good points which many can agree to.

But what about "personal/leadership accountability"? That's something you and the rest of us can choose to implement on our own- and we don't have to wait on Inno to do it.

Leadership within alliances should be able to hold themselves to a higher standard than they have on the past 2 servers that I played...and in retrospect, both of the scenarios where either massive coalitions were developed or alliances were "secretively" brought in and planted as silent "arms"...well, you were highly involved in either an action that caused that or the initial design of it.

We played your "coalition game" in Sinope. Frankly, I don't think anyone stepped away from that server feeling like it was a great world to have been involved in playing-and many good players vowed to not play again as a result of that world. We didn't play the coalition game in Abdera- but I think you tried to start it there as well.

You complain about the 'end game' and gold abuse. I respect that you are willing to stand up and say essentially "all this stuff is wrong and takes the fun out, but I do it to win". Is winning another pixilated crown for your profile page that super important to you? Personally, for the team I usually play with, it's about fun and the kill...crown or no crown.

Do I mind spending gold not help Inno budget for improvements? Not really, as long as they are reinvesting in both ways to improve the game and fix issues as well as things that continue to grow the budget and allow for world/server expansions that they need. If the developers would focus on some of the issues you pointed out- plus the elimination of bots that many people actively admitted to this last go around- a lot of players would be happier, and there would probably be a retired players that would come back to play the game.

The things that came out of the closet this last world for use, and by multiple alliances, were despicable and went seemingly without a lot on consequences.
 

dimspace

Phrourach
3. gold:

Find a better balance, today to much gold influence the game, better have 50k customers / server spending 50 euro / month than 50 people spending 1k / month.
.
This coming from the guy....

I joined the new world 48 hours ago, and have spent a not insignificant 5,000 gold so far

You joined the world 12 hours ago, and are already 500pts ahead of me. :)





That aside, Erik makes a lot of valid points, it just loses its impact when it comes from someone who says people "milk events" who i know in a couple of weeks time will be bombarding the whole of a new world with custom built (bought) manticore nukes.

as herefordgirl says, a lot of the above things can be managed by alliances holding themselves to a certain set of standards, as well as players holding themselves to a set of standards.

Things like the gold abuse, the abuse of events, we as players can control by holding ourselves accountable by saying "no, im not going to buy countless manticore nukes" (especially as i know the event has no comparable defensive myth unit to combat them and it simply isnt fair play)

One of the biggest thing that is ruining the game for me is the cheating going on. and Erik has in the last week sent out a huge long MM to multiple alliances in one world, defending the honour of a player who has been confirmed by multiple people of multi accounting. Whilst I appreciate and respect his loyalty to that player, in my view that is a bad judgement call, and he fails to recognise one of the biggest problems in the game that is forcing people to quit grepolis.



If some of the biggest culprits can make a commitment to curbing gold abuse, not exploiting events, and also pushing a moral direction for their alliances, kicking botters and multi accounters and letting them know that this is not acceptable in grepo, then I am happy to make a commitment and give my full voice and unwavering passion behind their other arguments.


Erik, you make some good points, but you also slip up by being one of the biggest culprits. That said, you do have a big voice, and you also have influence not only among your own players, but many other players, so you are in an idea position to "lead from the front" so to speak, set an example. Until then, its a classic case of do as I say, not do as I do.
 
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dimspace

Phrourach
Of eriks points the only ones I think are a huge issue are

Gold - I think gold trading has helped massively, but i think it would be helped even more by lifting the 2000/50 restriction.Meaning people could trade 15000/50 etc. This would increase trade in established worlds (and perhaps slow down the invasion of gold traders in new worlds)

Events - they just need balance. Again, next event has Manticore buffs, and what defence do they have, Pegs and Cerberus.. yeh thats a lot of use against Mantis. Im not opposed manti buffs as long as there is a directly comparable defensive buff to combat it.

End game... meh... never gonna happen. However, I think they need to revisit the WW requirements. They increased the size of cities with new building levels by about 2-3k but they didnt increase the WW requirements. As a result worlds are reaching wonders way too quickly.
 

mioune

Phrourach
agree with erik..simply as that, global point that most of us do no like how inno is killing WAR STRATEGIC game
 

Tea city

Guest
Dim,you are judging the player not what he said.
The fact someone is able to exploit the gaps of the system does not mean he is wrong.
It is not the player who ruins the system, but the system which creates the possibility to apply things which may be judged as wrong things.
Trying to find angels,or remove the blame is in constructive.
The reason why players golden up the cities at the start is in a large part due to the fear others will gain an edge by goldening and put them at a disadvantage.
This fear is exploited by Inno.
Since none can have a guarantee others won't.

Your points are valuable proposals too.

Erik is right, system is in need of radical change.
 
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jamovic1

Guest
to attract new players you need new things that will attract players tot approach the game and that is things like battle graphics, better starting tutorials and restrictions on gold use. The later is a big one form, many players a priced out the game by the few and it does come down to simple economics, if Inno can place a gold cap and attract a certain number of reasonable gold users for every 1 shark it loses we might be on to something. As it stands it is out of control, if they don't recognise that they are falling at the game they run
 

dimspace

Phrourach
Dim,you are judging the player not what he said.
The fact someone is able to exploit the gaps of the system does not mean he is wrong.

Your points are valuable proposals too.

Erik is right, system is in need of radical change.
Im just saying that if we are going to complain about gold use, event exploitation, and cheating ruining the game we can start to change things ourselves, by making a personal stand in game against these things.

Erik is right on several of the matters, but when hes overtaken me 12 hours into joining a world (that i know how much ive spent), sending out mm defending certain people my response is, If you want to lead this fight, then set an example yourself, and you may be surprised how many people will actually follow you.

If Erik turned round and said, right, en89, my entire alliance are making a pledge not to exploit the event and go mental on manti nukes, I would back him to the hilt, support him and laud his efforts.

Ive spent 5k so far in this new world, and thats been just about enough to hang in the top 50. Its ridiculous what is now needed to really compete early on. But the people who complain about it, are the very ones doing it :D


Its like doping in sport. Athlete A does it to get an edge over everyone, so athlete B does it to get on par with athlete A, then Athlete C realising A and B are beating him starts doing it to catch up with A and B. The net effect ends up being, everyone is doing it, and none of them have the advantage anymore.

Which begs the question, why dont they all just stop doing it.
 

Tea city

Guest
The problem Dim is that your moral backing in case his alliance will not use the event,will not help them if yours will do this and rim them.
Or they should be happy with some kind words of the type you are an honourable fool:)

Eliminate the system ( correct it),this is the solution not " the word of honour".
 

Tea city

Guest
USA itself is not based in the word of honour Dim,is it?
Nope,it is based on rules.
Fairer rules guarantee no cheating, not nailing Bill why he had sex with Monica: d
 

herefordgrl

Phrourach
Dim,you are judging the player not what he said.
The fact someone is able to exploit the gaps of the system does not mean he is wrong.
It is not the player who ruins the system, but the system which creates the possibility to apply things which may be judged as wrong things.
Trying to find angels,or remove the blame is in constructive.
The reason why players golden up the cities at the start is in a large part due to the fear others will gain an edge by goldening and put them at a disadvantage.
This fear is exploited by Inno.
Since none can have a guarantee others won't.

Your points are valuable proposals too.

Erik is right, system is in need of radical change.
Agree and disagree with points you have made, Tea. Largely I agree that Inno needs to have more accountability to the system design/events/end game.

Despite the system having "flaws" that we all seek out...I stand by my statement that those playing within the system need to upgrade the standards that they hold themselves to.

I had numerous discussions in Abdera and Sinope regarding "spies". Frankly, the abuse of their use in Sinope disgusted our group so much that we refused to be engaged in a massive coalition or sincerely build our own WW when we went to Abdera. From Abdera I learned this...the TRUE leaders of EN feel similarly and hold ethical standards superior to those of the individual/leader you are currently playing under, and they don't condone the use of spies/botting/cheating either. From their past affiliation with Erik, I had assumed otherwise- and am pleased to learn I was wrong in my assumptions (ie Kron, Drago, Weasy, etc). Perhaps that is off topic from game changes and the discussion thread that Erik initially intended for this to follow, but Dim's commentary opened the door and you charged through it to defend Erik (as usual, I might add).

I appreciate Erik's objectivity and openness in bringing up the subject, and I'm sure he's aware of the divisive faction he's become among players whom have generally played alongside him...and those watching. There are many wounds that need time and more than just words to heal, I expect. Glossing situations over doesn't fix that for many.

In ways, I think Abdera had a bitter taste at the end for many...just as Sinope. And funny enough, the root cause ties back to the actions and "character" of the person that you defend Tea. Inno can't fix that- just like Hilary couldn't keep Bill from playing in the oval office with Monica either.
 
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dimspace

Phrourach
The problem Dim is that your moral backing in case his alliance will not use the event,will not help them if yours will do this and rim them.
Well indeed, it would take everyone to realise the situation is out of hand and employ some form of self-management to correct the issue.

Because lets face it, Inno arent going to fix something that makes money. They dont seem capable of looking at the bigger picture to be honest, they just look at how much money can we make this month, not, where will our client base be in 12 months. And if grepo falls by the wayside, they just do something else. Thing is, grepo costs very little, the servers are substandard, maybe 2-3 dev's working on it.. it more than pays its way, theres no incentive for them to fix things.
 

Tea city

Guest
Now you are talking straight; )
But if the players themselves here will agree and sign a petition it may have an effect.
Difficult but not impossible.
 

Tea city

Guest
To HF- same kind of replies as to dim.
The correction of the system is the solution, not basing yourself " in good,moral Presidents".
As long as there is a chance to abuse it there will always be sinners.

Please do not let the thread degenerate due to your current need to sign a NAP with Karlo;)
I know your momentary need makes Dim and Karlo quite handsome for you right now but it does not help to correct the system:)
 
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herefordgrl

Phrourach
To HF- same kind of replies as to dim.
The correction of the system is the solution, not basing yourself " in good,moral Presidents".
As long as there is a chance to abuse it there will always be sinners.

Please do not let the thread degenerate due to your current need to sign a NAP with Karlo;)
I know your momentary need makes Dim and Karlo quite handsome for you right now but it does not help to correct the system:)
Need to sign a NAP with Karlo? Hardly- we don't have the same aspirations that you do. You might want to do a better background check on our and Karlo's history with us before you start down that rabbit hole.

Accusing me of "thread degeneration"? Clearly that began when Dim brought up the spy/multi-accounting, and you basically said "it's okay for Erik to be a sinner because temptation is there". Best move for Erik...genuine confession, or stay out of the the church with his proclamations of innocence (clearly he is not, and that's fine if that is how he wants to play the game).

If you want to get back on topic- stop being the little "tea pot", calling the kettle black...:p
 

GothamSoldier

Phrourach
Every server less and less people play the game we love.

1. end game :

Invest in something new so there are no longer massive alliances with academies and twin+sisters.
(yes i was perhaps the first with gold crown rotation system) so up to me maybe to advise how to avoid it in future!

Victor award = build 4 WW / 7.

Master award = build 5 wW/7. Ones 5 are build the team has to keep all 5 WW isalnds 3 months (use a timer).

Closing server = 24 hours after Master award is won : hopefull this result in the end of rotation systems!
If nothing else happens, simply only awarding the crown and awards to the players in the one alliance who builds the ww on the day the ww is completed will end the silly rotation system.

If people want to play in high member cap worlds to get WW done quicker, they can. If people want to play in low member cap worlds and fight more rather than build, they can. It offers many more choices to the players. I am currently playing a low member cap world bc there is more fighting, but now 7 alliances have pacted together to start building ww...7. 7! Its completely silly and ruins the intent for low member cap worlds.