Refugees of Pella Discussion

[DeletedUser]

Taking this from the comments made in the milestones thread, i thought i'd make refugees it's own topic as it is actually quite interesting.

There were 2 main points:

1) Silver taking in 20 (?) refugees, noted 303 squadron was mentioned
2) MOS taking in refugees just before the end of an alliance, noted S.T.O.R.M. was mentioned, and HaVoC.

I'm sure we can have an intelligent and involved discussion on this

(Props to Ellaranna who gave the idea, i just made the thread )

 

[DeletedUser]

so long story short, 303 decided to try their little magic on MOS. They sent multiple attacks against us and some of them hit the mark, however we were not going to just watch them attack us like other alliances did. We regrouped and took the fight to them to show them what it's like to play with the big boys. In just a day we killed many of their troops and nukes, took 3 of their cities. So the little Polish coiners ran for cover.

I think Mogul's post says it all:

The Mogul 2012-07-18 20:43
Just took this off the 303 Alliance profile

Fly like an eagle

Swim like a dolphin

Fight like a lion

Think they forgot to add

Run Like a Gazelle

As a result of our pressure, the best alliances in Pella (according to SS) joined another best alliance in Pella (also according to SS) - Silver, also known as Pella's #1 refugee camp accepting all coiners and simmers from across the land. I know MOS has a charity program taking care of noobs, so Silver decided to give back to the community as well by accepting refugees. A noble cause, but we were not amused especially since some of the 303 members were still attacking us when Silver took them in.

As to Ella's claims to honour her agreements and not start a war with us first - what a load of hot air coming from the rear. If taking in an entire alliance which is actively fighting MOS is not a direct declaration of war - I don't know what is. And please don't try to spin it like you are all innocent and fluffy and bad MOS is attacking you for no reason. You knew what you were doing and refused to compromise.

Remember what happened to LoWKeY when he went back on his word with us? That's right, we hate such people with a passion.
And saying that one of our members was a refugee from S.T.O.R.M. is inaccurate since we also fought that alliance and we knew it was about to dissolve. If you felt that their member escaped to MOS from your attacks, you should have contacted us as common sense dictates. You didn't.

 

[DeletedUser]

Tyrone just gotta say mate i love watching you do your thing should be fun to see how this all go's may the best alliance win

 

[DeletedUser]

do you smell that Max?? It's the smell of BP!
Ella already dumped her slinger nuke on my lonely city in o54. I wonder why nobody else is attacking? It feels like the start of the server all over again.

 

[DeletedUser]

303 have been our allies since server started. they were the only allies that we made back then that actually honored any agreements we made with them. I admitted that some were refugees but am not gonna turn away allies that I have been hoping would eventually join us anyway. besides them the only other refugee we took in was 1 x-havoc member.

Anyway, Volsung made it clear back then that it didnt matter if we talked to you guys before or after we took in a refugee cause no one should ever take them in. I can look up his exact wording if you want but it was something along the line of it being common practice in grepo for alliances to not take in refugees and to let them all get rimmed.

Then you took in a refugee from S.T.O.R.M which as far as I'm aware is why 303 started attacking as they had been attacking the person before they joined you. So please explain to me how it is ok for MOS to take in refugees but no oe else to?

Also when we took in that first refugee back then I even offered to treat him as a refugee and give you guys a day or 2 to try and take his city and none of us support him but was tod the only thing that would be accepted is for us to boot him. Would have offered the same thing this time as well but when Volsung mailed me I could tell no atter what I said he was gonna set us red.

The biggest issue I have is you seem to think its ok for you to do whatever you want but go to war over someone else doing the same thing.
So go ahead and call the ones that joined us refugees. I wont deny that some of them were getting hit and are refugees but dont agree that only your allance should be able to take in refugees. And if you really want to fight us cause I wont boot someone... Then thats fine with me.

 

[DeletedUser]

It should be noted that at one point i also stated MOS was the best alliance at one point Tyrone - or have you forgotten in your displeasure over not getting an opinion award?

Interesting points have been raised by both sides here - what makes it okay to take in a refugee, what makes a refugee in so new a world?

 

[DeletedUser]

I just love how you try to spin it, but you are only digging yourself a bigger hole as more and more of your words fall further from the truth.

303 have been our allies since server started. they were the only allies that we made back then that actually honored any agreements we made with them. I admitted that some were refugees but am not gonna turn away allies that I have been hoping would eventually join us anyway. besides them the only other refugee we took in was 1 x-havoc member.

If you were such close friends, why did you run into each other's sieges many times? In fact I have a message somewhere from one of your members saying that your relationship wasn't as great as you describe, but rather hostile.

Anyway, Volsung made it clear back then that it didnt matter if we talked to you guys before or after we took in a refugee cause no one should ever take them in. I can look up his exact wording if you want but it was something along the line of it being common practice in grepo for alliances to not take in refugees and to let them all get rimmed.

In case you didn't know, it is not ok to take refugees. And if someone takes them anyway, it is common to send a message informing that alliance about their new member with battle reports as proof. Then it's up to you whether you want to go to war over these refugees or kick them. Sounds reasonable, no?

Then you took in a refugee from S.T.O.R.M which as far as I'm aware is why 303 started attacking as they had been attacking the person before they joined you. So please explain to me how it is ok for MOS to take in refugees but no oe else to?

We were attacking S.T.O.R.M. as well and had information that this alliance would disband. The player in question Bair N did lose 2 cities to 303 before he joined and yes he can be considered a refugee (we did not know it at the time). However, 303 never informed us about the alleged refugee and just started attacking our old members. When we asked why they attacked, they brought up 2 refugees, one of whom joined us weeks ago. That's not very diplomatic. On the other hand we contacted you first regarding 303 issue. Aren't we nice?

Also when we took in that first refugee back then I even offered to treat him as a refugee and give you guys a day or 2 to try and take his city and none of us support him but was tod the only thing that would be accepted is for us to boot him. Would have offered the same thing this time as well but when Volsung mailed me I could tell no atter what I said he was gonna set us red.

So basically you would give us 48 hr to rim several active players with more than 10 cities and loads of gold. You are so generous.

The biggest issue I have is you seem to think its ok for you to do whatever you want but go to war over someone else doing the same thing.
So go ahead and call the ones that joined us refugees. I wont deny that some of them were getting hit and are refugees but dont agree that only your allance should be able to take in refugees. And if you really want to fight us cause I wont boot someone... Then thats fine with me.

The biggest issue I have is you going back on your word and pretending it's ok. It's not. You don't just take in an entire alliance that is fighting us and say "some of them might be refugees, u did it too." That's why you should check the facts by asking for battle reports before you rush to conclusion and start a war. I guess you wanted that war, didn't you?



I did hit a few of your ppl today and you do need to consider booting some of your players. Not because they are refugees, but because they are simmers.

 

[DeletedUser]

The biggest issue I have is you going back on your word and pretending it's ok. It's not. You don't just take in an entire alliance that is fighting us and say "some of them might be refugees, u did it too." That's why you should check the facts by asking for battle reports before you rush to conclusion and start a war. I guess you wanted that war, didn't you?

would really like to know what word i gave and to who. I never once agreed not to take in refugees and even told Volsung if you guys wanted to you could take in HOW refugees when he mentioned it awhile ago. only thing I told him is we were not interested in war with you and Id try to get my guys not to take cities in o55 but couldnt help what ocean any new members we got were in. So please tell me how I broke my word.

I keep my word. many in your allance can even verify that by talking to the founders/leaders of Reborn alliance on Juktus that many of them were pact with there, as they have known me for years and although we were enemies for most of that time I never once lied to them and never will. This may be a game but I believe people should treat people the same as they would in RL. and lieing is not something I do.

And no I didnt want this war but Im sure you gus were just looking for an excuse, after all your long term goals include controlling all 4 core oceans which mean you eventually would need to fight us anyway. my goals on te other hand had nothing to do with any of the other 3 oceans.

 

[DeletedUser]

Anyone care to answer my questions about refugees?

 

[DeletedUser]

Anyone care to answer my questions about refugees?

I'll give it a go as Tyrone seems only interested in flaming Silver.

In my opinion everyone who leaves an alliance to get away from a war is a refugee. Then should they join another alliance in attempt to get protection that alliance could be seen as harboring refugees. The general practice then is to let the new members (refugees) fend for themselfs for 48 hours after joining.

A more interesting question I would like answered is that if an alliance crumbles in a war and gets disbanded, are all the ex-members then refugees for ever, or can they freely find a new home after a while?

 

[DeletedUser]

I'll give it a go as Tyrone seems only interested in flaming Silver.

In my opinion everyone who leaves an alliance to get away from a war is a refugee. Then should they join another alliance in attempt to get protection that alliance could be seen as harboring refugees. The general practice then is to let the new members (refugees) fend for themselfs for 48 hours after joining.

A more interesting question I would like answered is that if an alliance crumbles in a war and gets disbanded, are all the ex-members then refugees for ever, or can they freely find a new home after a while?

no different, 48 hours (or 72 hours is what I'm used to) in whatever new alliance they join.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thank you Theyank.

And cookie i agree, that is usually the norm. So why are people implying differently on Pella? I mean the only exception i have found are in cases of extreme betrayal, where a person is blacklisted from all alliances.
Does someone have a different example?

 

[DeletedUser]

It is all much easier. You may or you may not take any refugees, but taking them in you're certainly giving the other alliance a righteous cause to start a war. I would understand if 303 went against us once we took some STORM players in. I didn't know they were attacked by 303, but once I found it out, I accepted the risk. Ella accepted it as well taking them in.

What is more important is that 303 squad attacked us about 1 week after we took those STORM players in. Attacked us ALL without any warning or anything, without any "casus belli" (taking refugees a week ago def. doesn't count). We on the other hand sent a message to Silver leaders the same day when the whole alliance that attacked us joined them. We presented them the problem, they confirmed that there's an issue but refused to avert it - we declared the war.

There you can see the difference in attitude and ethics.

 

[DeletedUser]

Eh there is 2 things i dont like about Grepolis main 1 is Luck always bloody negative i dont care what grep says its not a randon thing cause 90% of my attacks is - and the 2nd is drama why cant we all just kill each other and be done with it

 

[DeletedUser]

It is all much easier. You may or you may not take any refugees, but taking them in you're certainly giving the other alliance a righteous cause to start a war. I would understand if 303 went against us once we took some STORM players in. I didn't know they were attacked by 303, but once I found it out, I accepted the risk. Ella accepted it as well taking them in.

What is more important is that 303 squad attacked us about 1 week after we took those STORM players in. Attacked us ALL without any warning or anything, without any "casus belli" (taking refugees a week ago def. doesn't count). We on the other hand sent a message to Silver leaders the same day when the whole alliance that attacked us joined them. We presented them the problem, they confirmed that there's an issue but refused to avert it - we declared the war.

There you can see the difference in attitude and ethics.

we refused to boot them, we did not deny them being refugees, and if you wanted the time to try and take their cities without us supporting them we would have given that to you but you told me the first time we took a refugee in that you would not accept that option when it was offered. And yes when we took them in we knew there was the posibility of a war with you but I really thought your alliance would be more willing to work something out.

But it is what it is, we obviously have different views on refugees and Im not gonna try and change your views, but most peope I have talked to agree that refugees get refugee status for a predetermined amount of time them are ni longer a refugee, but you dont seem to think that.

But the war has started now, even though I dont think refugees should have been what started it but think it will be alot of fun... so far 2 cities for you, 1 for us. Your 2 were not as fun as ours though. lol, 12 hrs of constant attacks and about 20k dbp defending the siege was a blast. the most incoming I counted at any one time was 38. and with the attacks I sent that helped break that one siege Ive gained almost enough cp for 2 more cities.

 

[DeletedUser1483]

The biggest abuse of gold I have ever seen. It took 5hrs for one of your refugees to go from nothing in a city, and I mean nothing (it was under conquest which was broken), to 1600+slings and 25 catapults. That amount of abuse of gold literally makes me feel ill. If you have the money, then I would say fair enough, but just no. Seriously, no. This makes me want to quit.

(refugees refugees refugees)

Felt I had to put something to make this relevant to the conversation. think I succeeded with the brackets.

Chris

 

[DeletedUser]

Ella, if I was a refugee, how many of my cities do you think you could take in 48hr? (and i only use gold for captain and commander). Not many I would assume with long CS travel times. This makes your option unreasonable.

As to the war, it's nice to see that you can put up a fight. You have some scary gold abusers, it will be a challenge. Good job on that siege. I just hope Khyeo picks me for his next conquest target. Pretty please!

Spoiler

 

[DeletedUser]

I suspect Ella is a little gold guzzler herself, aren't you Ella?

 

[DeletedUser]

I suspect Ella is a little gold guzzler herself, aren't you Ella?

Seems we've just gone back about a month, back when everyone was accusing Silver of being gold users and boters.

 

[DeletedUser1483]

Seems we've just gone back about a month, back when everyone was accusing Silver of being gold users and boters.

Trust me. With what we saw today im starting to believe that myself. They were almost building biremes as fast as we were destroying them.

There's a few reports floating around which show the city being supported by 100biremes, then an hour later same city 100 biremes, then an hour later same city 100birs, and it just keeps going.