Milestones Rise or Sink (Top 12 Alliance)

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DeletedUser

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Finally the forums get interesting again. big things to happen soon, cant wait
 

DeletedUser

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Joe, we have certainly not been conspiring with Insurgence for 8 months. Up until recently, they were our main enemy. And this talk about Pablito and Livitius is ridiculous. Show some respect: you're an alliance leader, not a middle schooler. We're trying to win this world same as you. We've done what's best for us. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows, people get hurt. I speak only for myself when I say it's ''nothing personal, just good business,'' as some of my alliance mates would really love to tear you a new one... but you're really beginning to get on my nerves, so maybe that'll change. See you on the battlefield :D
 

DeletedUser38465

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First of all, we were no 1 in ABP for the longest time, only until recently. We were fighting on multiple fronts with multiple enemies for a long while. While you were fighting KD until they merged/ghosted, and ATOMIC for a short while? Am I correct? At the time of discussions we had more WW islands set up, and were in better preparation than SM. Probably still were even before we moved over to TBA.

I still don't get how someone from a different alliance (Paragon) left, to go to a different alliance, under a different name, really matters in the interests of SM in the first place? Secondly, how it pertains to our leadership trustworthiness? I think you overdramatized it as scheme to capitulate a merge by YOUR terms, knowing at the time Enigma had more to bring to the table because of your pride(a bit farfetched?idk) . In my opinion, I could live with knowing that, more than a childish, pompous Founder.

And as for us going elsewhere, that was all on you. Your terms of merge were dull and ridiculous, and im sure your own members would agree if they saw it. And how long ago was that, when you presented it? It hasn't been 8 months, so it was a choice and we chose right. As I said earlier, you reap what you sow. And you cost it (out of your own pride) for your alliance!

The only trashy person I see is you, and your attitude. Maybe this was meant to be because I couldn't be under the command of someone like you. ;)

Good luck to you, and to the rest of the Spider Monkeys. I will see you on the battlefield. :pro:
 

DeletedUser29194

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i like some of the SM guys pity we now on different sides of the line , merge fail is not all enigma's fault there are to sides to a coin .
 

DeletedUser25074

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@mightyscrapps - Loxias took over blagoj4's account for enigma. Lox was "regardless of his story" a 101 spy in Paragon and played his part in paragons disappearance. He fed intel to 101 without the knowledge or permission of orest or alcarin the paragon leaders at the time.

Regardless of his standings now anyone with this background should never have been givien access to potential harmful intel.

Yet after taking over the account he was put into a leadership postion in Enigma then was also invited to the leaders chat room we shared. All of this was done whilst intentionally being hidden from SM. It was only discovered because my co-founder happened to have him added on skype and noticed his name. If this slip up had not occured then we never would have been found out as (from livitus own mouth) "he had hoped to keep this from us"

This is the 8 month lie.

There are other factors in this but i cba going round in circles.

@mort - longest time... no mate you topped us over the xmas break when a lot of SM went semi active and managed to hold onto it by 200kish not really worth bragging about as we took that to pieces rather quickly quiet recently im affraid.

@switch - you still hurting over the fact i wouldnt let you play me? Lacky comment Ok sure i appologise for that I didnt realise you had come to me off your own accord Liv had told me he sent you too me as a neutral party hence the comment.

As for ALL of this being pinned on me lets just clear the air here. I wanted to set enigma red and just be done with it. This was MY decission. I dont like being lied too and i dont like the people im being honest and upfront with 100% of the time to not be returning the favour. The terms were set by SM leadership as a whole not me lol.

As for the terms they were simply Enigma would merg into SM have the leader rights without the power to kick which incidentally means no founder rights. The name would be changed to reflect the joining of enigma and SM.

I dont know about the rest of olympia but i prefer to be able to trust my leaders and these terms were offered to protect my members. Not out of some stupid pompus childish arrogant etc etc thing you all claim it was.
 

DeletedUser

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We're not backstabbing, plotting liars...

By their deeds shall you know them.

Enigma leadership were caught out backstabbing, plotting and lying. After that they had to pull out something pretty major to demonstrate they could still be trusted, but they didn't see the need to do that. If you'd rather mess over your friends and join your enemies than try to fix the problem you caused, what does that say about you?

Meanwhile you guys still have that 101 spy with you. Good luck with that...
 
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DeletedUser

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Enigma's two main skype diplomacy guys Livitius and XPablito are the best liars I have ever seen. They are so good in that so I guess that's the reason why they are in charge of diplomacy. All the way back when HK was around we agreed merge with Enigma and conditions. One of the agreed conditions was to keep one word from HK original name. When time was near, I heard from Livitius and Xpablito that other leaders are against that bla, bla, bla and I believed them but refuse merge and join SM as I felt cheated. I should know then what kind of snakes they are... Ins and Enigma had talks about merge long time ago. I know that and you know that.

ok, we talked to Tor last night
Tormaja, that is. he wanted to meet us in chat, so we did
Seems like Insur is trying to see if we'd merge with them for WW
we're playing like we're considering it and not letting them know we've been in talks with you guys. Of course by now the world realizes we have some kind of a relationship, but it seems they do not know the extent of it
-Liv Itius, 13. jun 2013 1:37

This is from skype and under this is in game message.

elkniwnavpir on 2013-09-09 at 22:57
we have been working on merge offers for over 3 months, everyone seems to be jockeying offers, angles, and ideas. we have several merge offers in the works and all of them are alliances merging into us and we will be remaining as founders.

i have no personal hate or anger towards your alliance,but this is a war game not fuzzy little kittens. had you contacted us months ago perhaps things could had been arranged. but we have already walk so far down other roads and options that i don't see our leaders turning back now. it fact we have a great plan on winning this world.

THE ELK


Should I say more?

You were afraid of our merge with Atomic when you were told that we are not going to discuss anything since we have agreement with you. Then this Lox guy..., I spent few minutes chatting with him and it's not allowed to post what I think of him regardless ex spy thing. Inviting few people without saying a word to us and you were informed when situation was opposite, is another sneaky thing. And all this time you never tried to fix your mistakes. Bottom line of this merge is: SM never lied and Enigma lied. Enigma was plotting against us and we didn't. Also, all this things are allowed in the game just don't play innocent babies here.

@awmcgregor There is no pity in SM, there is only bitter taste after your actions.
 
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DeletedUser25074

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So we have months worth of planning with Ins before any of this Lox stuff happened lol and u still think i was wrong u trust u guys with founder rights???? sorry switch either your nieve and being lied too aswell mate or you were trying to play me and failed :p

Theres a lot of fuss over the fact i wouldnt hand over a founder position to people that have been lying to me. You gotta admit its far too suspect to just take your word for it that u guys ment no harm too SM. Granted i dont think it was Enigma as a whole but the members follow the leaders lead and get bundled together.

To all of you trying to defend your leaders honour and integrity its commendable but the writing is on the wall.
 
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DeletedUser

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I have cleaned up this thread. Please note that profanity is not permitted in these forums. Curve your language or I will close this thread.
 

DeletedUser25074

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Sm vs The world again is it? lol I love you guys always needing so many people to try and take on a small group of players :p ah well c'est la vie lol
 

DeletedUser

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All in good fun, a 3-4 month break from this game was what I needed to learn that.
 

DeletedUser

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Propaganda is a nice selling tool. But, the facts are better. And when you make the same mistake twice, shame on you. That mistake being reacting to poor, inaccurate information. Especially when you pull your alliance down with it.
 

DeletedUser

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i see people that licked the lower parts of liv and pabs on this forum just to join enigma,calling them names like snakes and villains and whatever
personally joe,the problem is not that you lost the oportunity to marge with enigma,but you lost the faith your solder had in you
 

DeletedUser

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Only SM really cares about any of this, and that is only because they are now locked out. The reason SM is locked out is because of how they and Paragon treated their enemies and friends over the course of two years. Call me a liar, a snake, whatever. Why is everyone on this server flocking to the alliance I help lead? It aint because I'm special. It's because everyone in this world wants to see you fail. I've not been rude and disrespectful to everyone. I do not have the bad reputation. SM has iced themselves out. When people saw the merge to TBA happening, they wanted to be a part of it not so they could be on a team with Enigma, but because they wanted to fight SM.

Everything I've ever done in this game has been for the people who have put their faith in me to lead them. Specifically, the members of The Union and Enigma. There is nothing I would not do to keep these people safe, happy, and having fun. I owe nothing to anyone but them. I would never kick a member for losing a few cities, or not following orders to the letter. I've never even ordered anyone to do anything because I don't need to. This is a game, not a job or the military, and if I can't motivate someone to contribute on their own it is my failure as a leader. Ordering, demanding, and fear does not build a good team.

I have been in contact with leaders of SM, Para, and HK for close to a year if not more. Yes, we all planned on merging. Yes, I hid Lox's joining us from them, and planned on keeping it hidden. When it was discovered, I apologized profusely and I volunteered to step down from all leadership duties if it would have helped make the merge work. I tried to find a solution. But there was no way my constituency would agree to Joe's terms of no Enigma founders in the new alliance. Switch tried to talk to Joe about it, and was blown off by Joe. Joe and SM also insulted many important Enigma members who were not even involved in the ruse. I talked to Timmy, Alcarin, Vojhina and others. No one in SM besides Joe makes decisions, and Joe was not willing to compromise an inch.

Joe says he has to be able to trust "his" leaders. I never have nor ever will belong to you. You had the choice of overlooking this slight or making an issue of it. You chose the latter, assuming we'd accept any terms offered rather than fight. You made a huge miscalculation in forgetting the entire server hates you. Enigma leadership has been in contact with leaders and members of almost every major alliance on this server since day one. People like us. We've always had many options in case one failed. That's what diplomacy is. Compromise. Working together as equals, not seeing other alliance leaders only as potential leaders to be under you, or noobs and cannon fodder. When things went south between SM ans Enigma, we had tens of contacts chomping at the bit to line up with us because they want to fight you. Had SM's leadership saw past "the eight month lie" and accepted a compromise, they would not be surrounded by red flags now. I ask SM's members: Did your leaders make the right choice?

And to Voj, I am truly sorry that you feel this way. The people I most regret being hurt by all this are the former HK members and the SM members that had nothing to do with it. But if I am a great liar, I'm certainly no better than you. I can quote from skype as well:

[11/5/2012 6:07:02 PM] xpablitox: so we are agreed that the coalition here in skype [an HK/Paragon/SM/Enigma coalition] is temporary ... we WILL NOT join paramonkey?
[11/5/2012 6:07:06 PM] Liv Itius: agreed, we should have had this convo a long time ago
[11/5/2012 6:07:10 PM] Vojihna: Agreed
[11/5/2012 6:07:27 PM] Vojihna: Only for now we will stay together
[11/5/2012 6:07:44 PM] Vojihna: Later Hk and Enigma against them

and...

[9/5/2013 7:16:31 PM] Liv Itius: voj, remember when the plan was for HK and Enigma to fight SM/Para?
[9/5/2013 7:16:55 PM] Vojihna: I know mate

Voj, we had a plan together to fight SM/Paragon ever since we all started talking. That all these combinations were only to see how the wind blew and if we really could get along with SM/Para. You know it only fell off the tracks because HK folded. My eight month lie is no less or greater than yours. But none of this matters. None of the diplomatic tricks, turns, and double crosses mean anything. My point is we all do what we feel is best for our members. And what is best is a fluid and changing situation. All of us, as leaders, are beholden to no one but our members.

I did what I felt would best serve my membership, no one else, and in all circumstances. I have no loyalty but to them. Everything I've done was to serve Enigma, no matter what the cost. Beyond them, all other concerns are secondary. Call me a liar, a snake, a cheater. I regret none of what I've done.
 
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DeletedUser25074

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Lol liv trying to dirty Voj's name aint going to work if your quoting something from way back when we were actualy at war. Seeing something like that does not suprise me what so ever.

As for everyone hating us thats generally what happens when your the No.1 alliance for so long. It is every No.1 alliances curse. Everyone wants that perch so they have a go at taking it. When they fail the hate grows they reach out for allies in taking down that alliance and the hate spreads. SM have not treated any other alliance with any less disrespect than we have received ourselves ;)

As for flocking to Enigma to fight SM your just another 1 of those allies dude dont kid yourself into thinking its anything else than that lol. Sm have been at war with the world since the dawn of time and everyone knows that Enigma is the worlds best chance at actually taking SM on lol.
 
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DeletedUser25074

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Oh and as for switch that got sorted we had a chat and have a mutual respect for each other atm. See so i cant be all that bad Liv :p
 
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DeletedUser

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I don't hold anything against anyone. It was myself coming under fire and being called names. I felt I needed to say something. I did not intend this against you personally, Joe, rather I'd say people do not like SM's style perhaps more than their success.

I disagree with the concept that #1 is always hated. Enigma and SM could both argue who was the top, but I think we'd agree we were both about equal, statistically. I do not think there was nearly as much animosity towards Enigma as there is towards SM, though.
 
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