SaintedStarr vs. BigBaldGuy

DeletedUser

Guest
If your super turtling you don't make offense you go all out defence.. hence the term turtle so i don't see how he would revolt the other guy with no offense.

And yeah maybe he gets more BP but the offensive player will get some use that to take a 7-13k city and save himself 4 weeks of building and have a nuke up and running in a week. Where as a turtle will colonise a city and build it up along with making defensive units. I fail to see how that ensures the offensive players destruction.

The reason you fail is because you didn't bother reading my full post and thought you'd be a smarty pants.

Unlucky.
 

DeletedUser22940

Guest
Turtle loses plain and simple attacker has the advantage as attacking does more damage than defending ...knock the wall down and the defender is in a bind... Of course you must put multiple citys in revolt and send multiple attacks on each city but in the long run the attacker wins... SOD tried the turtle mode on us we walked thru it. It becomes a matter of simple math in the long run =/

Agree with you. Don't use SoD as an example as most of us were underdeveloped and not very experienced.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Haha, I think a smart turtle can manage all that. If we have 2 players fighting with both having 20 towns each. I can have 20 towns with wall 25 and a tower. The attacker will need at least 2-3 land nukes to put any city in revolt. So, he will probably only be able revolt 4-5 cities max. and then with the 12hr CS window, enough time to move just 50% of land defense from other cities (in case they have fakes coming) and stack the revolted cities. Though attaker wouldn't have a lot of troops left.

IDK, never had 1v1 before.. lol


I guess it depends on distance then. If you are only 3 hours away you have a 6hr turn around so you can have 10 cities in revolt at 1 time. If you then send 10 CS to all 10 revolted cities, how would they know which is real? As full offensive I could then send 4 armies to 5 cities while using those same 4 armies to fake only 1 other city that has a CS inbound. You would then have a 50% chance of defeating my CS allowing me to take 2-3 cities. Then I can do this every few days or once a week and as my ratio gets higher and yours gets smaller I have a greater advantage and take more cities. Until morale starts to kick in, but by that point there is a clear winner.

Anything greater than 4hrs 1 way makes it impossible to have that many cities in revolt at the same time.

Of course as a turtle with 20 Defensive cities and only 10 being attacked I can stack 3 cities with 3 groups of Biremes and 3 with 2 groups of ground D. That leave 2 cities that will only have 1 group of biremes or 1 group of ground D. Which means if these 2 are actually being attacked they will be revolted, so instead of 1 full group I just leave 400 ground troops in each to stop a fake. I then spread the remaining D to the other cities to give them that much more of an edge.

Still with luck you would only be able to get between 2 and 4 cities in revolt. With a low turnaround and equal success you are looking at 4-8 cities in revolt at one time. If it is only 4 cities then as an attacker you say screw it and hit 5 other cities to try to increase your total revolt number, or you double your attacking numbers, pit 8 cities worth of O against 2 of those cities and fake the other 2. The defender can still stack them up, but he is twice as spread out and if you knocked those walls down to 10 or better yet 0, he will lose his defensive edge.

At 12+hrs distance you just take your chances since you'll have to send the CS about a day before everything else, lol. This would have to be an under 6hr travel time this way you can at least know which city/cities are in revolt and then send the Colony Ships.


Any other thoughts? Rebuttal?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Sorry Sainted wasnt just SOD that turtled was pretty much everyone up til SN. Their defense strategy is very good and they change with the flow. They caught us out of position to defend a few citys so far but nothing major. This weekend should be rather interesting
 

DeletedUser22940

Guest
hehe I will def. look forward to seeing the outcome. Good luck to both sides.

(steals Falcian's popcorn)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I think it should also be noted that as the Defender you would need to constantly check for new attacks and be available to move Defense around. As the attacker you have the leisure of working around your schedule. You attack when you are free, get plenty of rest, go to work, do whatever it is you do on a day to day basis and then sit down and send your attacks over the next few hours.

In a 1v1 situation the Defender seems like the more difficult position.

Without an actual example of a full turtle and a full attacker or even a partial turtle and partial attacker, it is hard to see who would have more success.
 

DeletedUser3303

Guest
I think it should also be noted that as the Defender you would need to constantly check for new attacks and be available to move Defense around. As the attacker you have the leisure of working around your schedule. You attack when you are free, get plenty of rest, go to work, do whatever it is you do on a day to day basis and then sit down and send your attacks over the next few hours.

In a 1v1 situation the Defender seems like the more difficult position.

Without an actual example of a full turtle and a full attacker or even a partial turtle and partial attacker, it is hard to see who would have more success.

Obviously the best way is to have a mix, but i recon on a city by city ratio, a turtle will beat a offensive players for a number or reasons, attacking forces cant defend, so once they crash against a wall of bires, the defensive player can strike.
The new revolt set up really benefits the defender, back when the attacker stacked the city during the revolt stage, it payed to be the attacker. Now the defender stacks, its almost impossible i find to lose a city.
 

DeletedUser22650

Guest
the offensive player just needs to NOT attack the turtle, i would build bp and take cities nearby when i outgrew the turtle to a good enough ratio to steamroll him the turtle would be getting crunched....i guess im forgetting the poxy morale setting though :/
 

DeletedUser3393

Guest
the offensive player just needs to NOT attack the turtle, i would build bp and take cities nearby when i outgrew the turtle to a good enough ratio to steamroll him the turtle would be getting crunched....i guess im forgetting the poxy morale setting though :/

The talk is about two players fighting 1v1 of equal size.. And I just said one person can turtle up and never lose a city.

Outgrowing is a different thing. But 1v1 means both players fight each other which means the turtle will not only get More BP, will also be able to run more festivals/theatres. Meaning in a pure 1v1 scenario he will outgrow the attacker.


True Falcian, the defender will constantly have to check his cities, but with 12hr revolt notification and easy access to all his cities he can save his cities without much issue.


I am talking a pure 1v1 scenario with 2 players of equal size 1v1 imo means no alliance help and no external players getting involved, whether it is for conquests or BP hunting.


I can say on my side for sure.. If I want to, I will never lose a city 1v1 against a player of equal size. But it will be very boring also just to turtle up.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Actually if you turtle you can still put cities into revolt. Hops = turtles troops/offense. Using a hop army you can revolt someone ;)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
All these comments about the turtle winning makes me ponder just 1 question.... If the turtle is so good why are all the top players also top in ABP?
 

DeletedUser22940

Guest
Hey BBG - I think that was based on a 1vs1 scenario. If you look at the big picture and factor in the alliance, the attackers that can best the turtle usually are the better players.
 

DeletedUser22940

Guest
Aren't you supposed to be busy getting rimmed on Gythium?

Either way, you shouldn't talk about BBG like that....he'll find you =]
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Sorry Strikehard unfortunately you dont rate being worth a comment as you are part of the "ELITE" Super NovaZ alliance and you started before i did, However your stats indicate that you SUCK. therefore you would simply be a waste of my time =/
 
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