Sexuality?

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DeletedUser12324

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Ok so i looked in the rules and couldn't see anything about this but hey.

So i've been thinking recently if there really is such a thing as sexuality? We say there is in our cultures but i think that's just so we can label other people and ourselves.

I personally feel that if everyone was open minded and there was no such thing as being labeled gay or such a thing as homophobia then a majority of people would actually have relationships with either sex.

In no way shape or form do i what this turning derogatory or saying whether being gay is right or wrong etc etc


Thoughts?
 

DeletedUser12571

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Am I correct in ascertaining you wish to discuss whether sexuality is a choice or a genetic predisposition? Or are you asking if we, as humans, have an actual preference towards one sex?
 
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DeletedUser12324

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If we actually have a preference towards one sex.
 

Aicy

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Of course we do. Without being told my body gave me a boner from looking at a hot girl, however that has never happened with a hot guy.
 

DeletedUser

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Aicy is a boy? Oh god...

Being gay is fine. Being lesbian is fine. Just some stupid Christians (talking about certain ones, not all) decided since the bible said so gays are not human beings and should not be given free rights.
 

Aicy

Strategos
The Bible said laying with another man is a great sin, although in the same chapter it says lots of other silly things such as you're not allowed to wear fixed fabrics, which as far as I know isn't illegal in the US

Aicy is a boy? Oh god...
Why assume I'm straight?
 
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DeletedUser

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Actually, the Bible doesn't even say that Aicy. In the not-transliterated version it is referring to men & women being payed to lay with men "or" women in a religious ritual. In short, it's about some religious practices in which people are paid to participate in sex (Saturnalia, the precursor to Christmas, for example).

The words were later mistransliterated to mean "omg, he's gay!"
 

DeletedUser

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Sexual preference is entirely a natural (genetic) occurrence and isn't a choice you can switch on or off like a light. Specifically, homosexuality isn't "wrong" or "unnatural" because homosexuality has in fact been discovered in at least 400 species yet only one of them displays homophobia (you get a cookie if you can guess which one). Some sources say every species but I'll just stick with 400 because it's easier to comprehend. In most cases we have a natural preference for the opposite sex, mostly due to mating reasons, but that doesn't necessarily disqualify same sex preferences.

The Bible is not a credible source for what is right or wrong. The Bible was written by men and their interpretations of God's will - that alone disqualifies it as a credible resource.

Furthermore, people who often defend the Bible in regards to my above statement (as well as incorrect translations) like to state that whenever an interpretation, contradiction or what have you is pointed out they refer to it as "non literal" or "figurative". Yet, whenever they want to make a point the except of their choosing is 100% literal. Whenever someone points out an inconsistency in the Bible the probability of it being figurative language rapidly approaches 1, so, without turning this into a Religious debate, please don't use the Bible as a reference for any arguments.

Btw Aicy, (apparently; not sure on credibility) some states/cities in the US have some incredibly ridiculous laws which have just never been made obsolete or revised.
 
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DeletedUser

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well i think jesus'es opinion is worth more then urs. so i dont care wut u say, merica is a christian nation and we should uphold the traditions given to us by god thru moses.
 

DeletedUser

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lol, Jar was being facetious. Anyway, we really need to try and discuss this subject without tossing in religion.
 
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DeletedUser

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Of course, hopefully we don't have to resort to the religion debate. I was trying to show that throwing in religion, specifically (mis)quotes from the Bible, isn't something that should be given as points in this debate.
 

Aicy

Strategos
Yeah, sorry, I agree. A book that has been translated and rewritten a thousand times into a thousand different versions, yet is considered the holy word of God. Doesn't seem to be so reliable to me.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
lol, Jar was being facetious. Anyway, we really need to try and discuss this subject without tossing in religion.

That's gonna be hard. That's really the reason why people don't like gays a lot.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Okay, well if you want and the mods are okay with it, I could go into a detailed academic presentation on the "modern" Bible's mistransliteration on homosexuality and on other relevant points. Written about it plenty of times in the past.
 

DeletedUser

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Okay, well if you want and the mods are okay with it, I could go into a detailed academic presentation on the "modern" Bible's mistransliteration on homosexuality and on other relevant points. Written about it plenty of times in the past.

Go for it, sounds like an interesting read.

OT, I tend to avoid discussions regarding sexuality, due to bias, but to counter those who attempt to use the bible's stance on homosexuality, I do believe there are passages in the bible for both encouraging and discouraging homosexuality.. I could not say which, so don't quote me on that..
 

DeletedUser

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Okay, well if you want and the mods are okay with it, I could go into a detailed academic presentation on the "modern" Bible's mistransliteration on homosexuality and on other relevant points. Written about it plenty of times in the past.

Yes please, I personally would love to read it. However, this thread might not be the most appropriate. Not sure where you should post it.
 

DeletedUser2595

Guest
Why assume I'm straight?

Because if you were a girl, i'd love to know how you got a boner...

And being gay/lesbian/straight is natural - as in genetic (Though there may be significant environmental factors, for instance the parents who brought their child up as Gender-neutral, the child expressed both gay and straight tendencies)

Though being bi-sexual is the biggest win - double the potential partners straight away. :)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Alright, well I guess I'll stay on topic instead of derailing it with an examination of the Bible's mistransliterations, which I earlier alluded. I will send it to a mod first, for determination of acceptability. Okay, so... in answer to the OP, it is not a choice. Preference is subjective and subject to societal pressures, but it is clearly not a choice ---

There are physiological/biological (DNA) differentiations that result in differing results and influence by, and of, prenatal hormonal secretions. Since 1973, the bulk of the study has been performed by psychologists, because in 1973 the American Psychiatric Association, along with professionals in medicine, mental health, behavioral and social sciences, conclusively determined that homosexuality is not a disorder, nor abnormal. As psychiatrists focus on the treatment (usually through imposition of medication) of disorders, this decision by the APA effectively ended any further psychiatry-based pathology studies.

However, psychologists study all aspects of human behavior, not merely the treatment of disorders. In the decades since 1973, the American Psychological Association determined that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and posiive variations of human sexuality. I.e., the standing, 40-year consensus in the professional fields are that homosexuality is a, "normal variation of human sexual orientation." [1]

In respects to same-sex marriage, the American Psychological Association, in a brief to the Supreme Court, concluded, "there is no scientific basis for distinguishing between same-sex couples and heterosexual couples with respect to the legal rights, obligations, benefits, and burdens conferred by civil marriage." [2]

Further, earlier studies were made by the U.S. military as far back as World War II, with the oldest recorded study affirming what has been consistently presented in their reports, consistent with present findings, which is that, "the homosexual leads a useful productive life, conforming with all dictates of the community, except its sexual requirements" and was "neither a burden nor a detriment to society." Fry and Rostow reported that, based on evidence in service records, homosexuals were no better or worse than other soldiers and that many "performed well in various military jobs" [3]

In all the valid studies, it was determined that homosexual and heterosexual early histories ("nurture") do not differ substantially as to warrant conclusive external causations. Early studies determined prenatal hormones to be a major factor in determining sexuality (and transgender status), but a DNA study back in 2003 found 54 genes associated with the expression of sex, indicating that while hormones are a factor, they are not the only "nature" determinate. Additional studies have since provided ample evidence that DNA and prenatal hormones play a markedly significant factor in determining sexual orientation. [4] [5]

Basically what this means is, qouting Dr. Bogaert of Brock University, "the environment a person is raised in really makes not much difference." [6]

So then, what about reparative therapy? Is it valid, does it pose conflict with the scientific assertions? Well first we need to clarify that reparative therapy is the effort by some to impose therapy to change a person's sexuality. The APA is rather firm on this issue, which is that it is unethical because there is no supporting evidence of it being effective and there is evidence indicating it is potentially harmful. [7]

Reparative therapy groups, such as NARTH, are not advocated by APA and are, in fact, condemned by the greater majority of professional psychologists. Unfortunately, obtaining a degree in psychology is not necessarily a challenging endeavor and, for the most part, psychology is a field of interpretations as opposed to tried & true applications. This tends to lead to people with preconceived notions (religious or otherwise) baying overlay on their cognitive interpretation of issues and challenges. As a result, these sorts of groups exist because enough like-minded homophobes, with degrees in psychology, can and do decide to ignore the American Psychiatric Association's findings, the American Psychological Association's findings, and the emerging biological findings that pose in contra to their not-so-hidden agenda. As one activist, Wayne Besen, puts it, "(Reparative therapy) is a kinder, gentler form of homophobia." [8]

Finally, let's address the argument that homosexuality is against nature. Easily answered --- this is patently false --- as there are well over 1500 animal species that have been documented to display homosexual behaviors/activity. [9]


[1] http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf

[2] http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/...er_Psychological_Assn_Amicus_Curiae_Brief.pdf

[3] Allan Bérubé, Coming Out Under Fire, 1990, pp. 170-171

[4] Friedman RC, Downey JI. Homosexuality. N Engl J Med.1994; 331 :923 –930 <Free Full Text>

[5] Stronski Huwiler SM, Remafedi G. Adolescent homosexuality. Adv Pediatr.1998; 45 :107 –144 <Medline>

[6] Bogaert, A.F. (2006). Biological versus nonbiological older brothers and sexual orientation in men. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), 103, 10771-10774. <USA Today article>

[7] http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html

[8] http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/reptherapy.pdf

[9] http://www.nhm.uio.no/besokende/skiftende-utstillinger/againstnature/index-eng.html
 
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DeletedUser18132

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Yes, but from the scientific point of view, mating is used to get children. Scientifically, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman can't have kids. They need the other sex to have kids.
 
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