Top 12 Sink or Swim?

Ranga1

Strategos
Backdoor bandits already being absorbed by their head entity, standard HF girl practice really, Im surprised its happening so early though. I suppose that's what happen when you drop with 3 alliances :D
 

DeletedUser46130

Guest
They dropped with 3 alliances? :O How come and who ranga? Enlighten us!
 

DeletedUser51786

Guest
Ranga1 said:
Backdoor bandits already being absorbed by their head entity, standard HF girl practice really, Im surprised its happening so early though. I suppose that's what happen when you drop with 3 alliances :D
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Please enlighten us which 3 alliance :) seems like you should retire mate if thats your predictions and I dont mean it in a disrespectful way, just keep out of our business Ranga
 

DeletedUser49059

Guest
Bearissimus said:
Magick, if you could just humour me for a little while I'll explain why some of this is perhaps not so off-topic, before really getting back on topic.

People are criticising HG's strategy as fundamentally boring and negative, and in that they're absolutely right. However, these same people are also being hugely hypocritical, because all she's done is copy what they've been doing for ages, the now-standard EN plan. Makes no difference to me which side employs it (or both, as on several servers), it rather spoils the fun for the majority of players, whilst being undeniably effective. Inno to their credit have recognised that, and have made certain changes to WWs to eliminate the worst excesses of these plans.
What is now happening, which is where it starts being directly relevant to Nagidos and the top 12, is that groups of players are making multi-server deals for crowns - agreeing to support one alliance in one world, in exchange for reversed roles in a future server. So here we have quite a few alliances who were pledged to take certain roles before the server even started. What makes this server really interesting, though, is that a couple of these groups have conflicting multiple agreements in place, and further that quite a few of the key players in alliances with these agreements are not at all happy with them. It's all a recipe for huge internal conflict, as we've already seen with some alliances, and it's far from clear at this stage which alliances will stick to which agreements.
This is also a very interesting world in that there are so many potentially decent alliances - at least 20 who have a realistic chance of making a mark on this world, without counting academies.

Anyway, that's the background to the politics that will shape the server. At this stage I'm not going to second-guess some of these relationships, so will do a fairly straight top 12 based on their players and positioning, rather than politics. As things crystallise, I will do future top 12s based on political facts as well, but for now the alliances themselves don't know which promises they'll be keeping. Even if they think they do.

1. Show Me Your Noobies - Swim. Tight core, good players, nice position.
2. Enough is Enough - Sink. Name change from a highly inappropriate one tells the story clearly Enough - there's been more than enough Drama already. If they can put their internal issues aside, they have the core, players and position to do well, but at the moment, my money is on them not being able to, but who knows for sure?
3. Caustic Soda - Swim. Again, tight core and good players, position is interesting...
4. Devil's Advocates - Sink. I don't think they have the maturity in leadership that's required to make a go of it in the long run on such a tricky server, especially given their position. But they will go down all guns blazing, that's for sure.
5. Hydra - Float. Tricky position, slightly more spread out, their diplo will be very busy.
6. PIED - Sink. Just way too spread out for this server.
7. Backdoor Bandits - Sink. Caustic Soda's academy.
8. Winter Knights - Float. At least in the far north-east.
9. Anonymous - Sink. Too spread out for this world.
10. Symmetry - Sink. Again, too widely distributed.
11. Check Mate - Sink. Famous name, nice players, horrible position and spread.
12. Hydra 2 - Sink. Academy.

But so much depends on the politics - deals the diplos can do, and what the membership is prepared to take. I expect a lot of alliances to break up and new ones form, especially in O54.
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Nice analysis, good read and well written Bear. For clarity, however...please don't assume that everyone who's wrote publicly that I am a "hugger" or that is my normal game style is correct...they don't know me personally, nor do they know me in game from playing with me. I would agree that the "cuddling" strategy is boring, outdated, and we have seen it done world over, time and time again. It kills servers.

When I have been involved in any kind of "coalition"...it's been with 2 primary purposes:
1. Defeat the "evil bad guy" on the server with a collective with against a team that was already hugged up (Sinope, which Ranga loves to discuss - GOAL: kill Erik's coalition)
2. Defeat the "evil bad guy" for being a cuddler and the reputation of such, and allow the server to resume a sense of normal game play, with more challenge (Golgi - GOAL: kill Erik)

Did I drive or make those decisions entirely by myself? No, absolutely not. We don't run a dictatorship...we have a council of founders. I am probably the most visible and most vocal...and I take the heat for my team, and for being visible and vocal.

We didn't win Sinope but gave it a best and were a decent challenge to our enemies...too many spies on both sides, and I would actually say if we had the right people in our alliance talking to the right people in other alliances...it would have been a totally different world in the end. But we didn't. We did prevent a lot of "alliance rotations" for the "backup crown" however. And in retrospect, frankly I am not proud of the backstabbing, poor and absolutely ugly communication, and lies that got circulated during the server in game, or the communication on the externals- from members in our coalition, or the other. In some respects, we accomplished OUR goal in Golgi, and when we were told that we had come there to build WW and win the world by the guy we brought in to help take on our task and get people to work together that refused to...we said, "no, that's not why we came here - good luck to you guys".

Given some of the good things Inno's implemented for this server, I think the world will play out a bit differently. The last 2 worlds we were in, we were not there for a win...this time, perhaps a different story?

It's good to see people in different alliances than typical...some diversity...so, let's not judge the future by the past- the rules have changed. People have matured, gotten more experience, and more respect for each other.
 

Ranga1

Strategos
If any member of the top 12 alliances believe the above good luck to you. So many incorrect things in just one post above (I wont debate them as this is a new world forum), its hard to believe anything she says to friend or foe is actually believable, and not just what she wants to believe at that point in time (eg her above comments about crown rotations). Good luck to any who deal with her!
 

DeletedUser49059

Guest
Ranga1 said:
If any member of the top 12 alliances believe the above good luck to you. So many incorrect things in just one post above (I wont debate them as this is a new world forum), its hard to believe anything she says to friend or foe is actually believable, and not just what she wants to believe at that point in time (eg her above comments about crown rotations). Good luck to any who deal with her!
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Public character assassinations don't help anyone- you or I.

Ranga, your animosity towards me isn't just over the game...it's personal, we both know that. At one point - I felt the same way about you, until a mutual friend explained things a bit better to me and gave me a better idea of who you really are as a person in the game and as a person in general.

I offered to bury the hatchet, you continue to reject and hold me accountable to an argument that was 3 worlds ago.

I could have been kinder with things I said to you- that is true. Lesson learned, apology offered...you don't accept it, I understand. Why don't we just move forward and avoid talking about each other in general then?
 

Ranga1

Strategos
The masses need to know....I take nothing personally in this game, cos its a GAME. One day you will get it, until then THE MASSES NEED TO KNOW!
 

DeletedUser52215

Guest
Nice top 12 :)

Ranga leave HF alone or take it up elsewhere. From what I've seen she's a great player and you've made me scroll through lots of text with your comments on her so please stop ;)
 

DeletedUser17513

Guest
Stannis-Storm said:
Nice top 12 :)

Ranga leave HF alone or take it up elsewhere. From what I've seen she's a great player and you've made me scroll through lots of text with your comments on her so please stop ;)
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i don't think thats the issue, most of us are great players, but certain actions we take in the past are what everyone remembers about us and why they dislike us or why they keep talking about the past :)
 

DeletedUser46395

Guest
Ranga1 said:
If any member of the top 12 alliances believe the above good luck to you. So many incorrect things in just one post above (I wont debate them as this is a new world forum), its hard to believe anything she says to friend or foe is actually believable, and not just what she wants to believe at that point in time (eg her above comments about crown rotations). Good luck to any who deal with her!
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Ranga, one reason why she's a much more accomplished performer than you in the externals is that broadly she does tell the truth. Not always the whole truth, and perhaps not nothing but the truth, but enough to give credibility to her other assertions. Sensible.
Second reason is she writes a lot better than you, and the final reason is that for a lot of people, Erik IS the evil bad guy, and you're his henchman.

So to brass tacks - does she run a dictatorship? Not exactly, but (without wishing to sound too Orwellian) some are more equal than others. And what about cuddling? Well that's certainly happening, but perhaps not entirely to the usual gameplan. Still expect global manipulation, don't expect it to be quite so predictable - although the fate of Bandits is/was entirely predictable .
 

DeletedUser46478

Guest
Oh dear, I must be in the wrong section, I was so hoping to read all about the top 12 but have just waded through pages of animosity.
There are 100's of players interested in the server, the game in general and reading about and commenting with constructive and enlightening posts, but it just seems that 2-3 people clog up almost every post with dribble. I am crap at doing a top 12, but would like to see a well constructed 12 done by one of our uber-talented authors .....I need to know which way too run, (I mean fight, I mean run, I mean fight, I mean run)
 

DeletedUser17513

Guest
@Bearissimus
I'm certain Beth and others in Soda/Bandints wont have another shot to manipulate other leaders and alliances, i doubt anyone in this world will be on their side, tho what everyone now is doing is only coring up, so what do i know..
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
Its very early for realistic top 10 so this is just based on first impressions and clues from previous servers


1 Show Me Your Noobies swim like a shark
2 Caustic Soda A great team if egos dont get in the way swim
3 Enough is Enough started as a cuddle fest but i guess enough is enough swim for now
4 Devil's Advocates I wonder who they are pacted with ? swim for now
5 Backdoor Bandits starting with good battle stats one to watch swim
6 HYDRA Dont like alliances with academies fail
7 PIED getting hit hard will they last ? sink
8 Check Mate defending more than attacking is a bad sign in the core sink
9 Written In Blood If these guys play to their A game they could be contenders swim
10 Winter Knights not impressed yet so sink
 

DeletedUser51423

Guest
OK peoples. Top 12 thread, not a remember when thread, if you want one of those.. go for it. Of you want a trash talk thread go for it. Do not bring this here.
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
Bearissimus said:
Nice top 10 ZP. You playing this one?
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yes i am but im in disguise so dont tell anyone
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DeletedUser49059

Guest
Ev1lK1ng said:
@Bearissimus
I'm certain Beth and others in Soda/Bandints wont have another shot to manipulate other leaders and alliances, i doubt anyone in this world will be on their side, tho what everyone now is doing is only coring up, so what do i know..
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It's a little early for the public announcement of your own coalition against us EK, but it's kind of you to give us the head's up.
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