Spam Attacking - Let us begin the conversation here

Discussion in 'Player's Council /Community Discussion' started by Oelyndeus, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. Baudin Toolan

    Baudin Toolan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Another idea that's been brought up is scaling the minimum troop amount based on the amount of attacks made from a city. I believe another CM said Tribal Wars has a similar feature. So currently the minimum is 3% of the cities total population but this idea would have that increase as you send attacks from a city. How much it would increase and at what point it would increase (after 1 attack, after 5, etc) isn't clear. So this idea might reduce spam but it doesn't do anything for the attack and cancel spam attacks.

    There's also talk of increasing the minimum troop requirement for all attacks up from 3% to anywhere from 10% to 20% but the biggest issue there is harbor checks. Making the minimum increase that high would nullify the ability of players to do harbor checks which we all know is a necessary game strategy.
     
  2. Rachel.L

    Rachel.L Phrourach

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    @Baudin Toolan is there a spam (or it's equivalent) problem in TWs? Are there modifications they have/ will be made to stop it?
     
  3. Baudin Toolan

    Baudin Toolan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    I don't know if there are spam problems in TW I was just told that in one of the other of Inno's games there was a system where the minimum amount of troops in an attack was increased dependent on how many attacks were going out. Idk if that was done to curb spam or if it was just a feature implemented for some other reason.
     
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  4. Oelyndeus

    Oelyndeus Phrourach

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    I would like to politely ask that this thread carry no insults, roasting, blaming or etc. There are servers you can do that on. If people begin that type of talk here, then the mods will need to lock the thread, ending the discussion. I am asking we all refrain from insulting or blaming others. Even people who spam may want to and can help with suggestions on getting rid of spam. [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  5. Oelyndeus

    Oelyndeus Phrourach

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    I have had difficulty coming up with a solution of my own, even though I wanted one, which is why I came here for a community discussion to formulate a solution. I would like to offer some thoughts.

    1) This is not a banable offense. It is not feasible for mods to get involved. If anything can be done, it must be a game mechanic fix. And one so slight that it doesn't affect sniping, harbor checking, favor farming, eliminating gold building, or backsniping. But also enough that it makes it more difficult to spam.
    2) I think that we will not ever entirely get rid of "spam." No matter a change in game mechanics, players will be able to get multiple players from multiple cities to attack in order to provoke their enemy's alarm. I don't think ending this is the goal; the goal is curbing how simple it is to attack/recall.
    3) A slider will be counterproductive I believe and will not curb spamming. Probably help it since players now have a delayed response to spamming.
    4) Not all "spam" is bad. Like I said above, the game is about timing dozens of attacks, and those attacks will trigger an alarm. Getting rid of the mobile alarm is also counter-productive and is not an answer. If you sign up for this game and download the app with the notification, you signed up for it! We are eliminating abuse, not strategy.


    When I write all this down, the main solution/game mechanic that comes to mind is the recalling portion. If we can limit the amount of times a player could recall commands from one city to another player, without affecting strategy too much, then I think we could slightly curb the abuse without affecting the game too much. Such as: A player can only cancel up to 10 commands from one city to another player every 10 minutes. I'm not confident about the quantifiable portion of my solution, but I believe something this simple could be an answer.


    Any thoughts to this?
     
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  6. hrdinajr

    hrdinajr Taxiarch

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    Let's just call spamming just for spamming what it is, BULLYING other players out of the game... Any type of bullying isn't acceptable. Spamming to take a city is the ONLY form I agree with. I attack quite often in the game but never spam a player. Harbor checking and killing harbors or city troops is NOT spamming. Anything else needs to be addressed quickly and decisively by other alliance members. Unfortunately, not all of our players have respectful methods in life as well as here, so getting them to quit bullying other players will be difficult. More than anything, we need to take a stand. Some players may not have been raised properly to respect others. We can teach them how to do this here if we address this issue with them directly. It's a game, not real-world military exercises. Most here are just kids and it teaches them to be relentless in their bullying. Those few that utilize this methodology should be kicked in the spirit of the game and human decency... Just my humble opinion.
     
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  7. rhiannon67

    rhiannon67 Taxiarch

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2018
    Spam atack is not only to attack / cancel repeatedly, it is also to send small attacks from the same city only to bother because what purpose does this have? See the image

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And that's just an example. All the players in my alliance have similar attacks right now.

    A good Grépolis player does not need to resort to that tactic to defeat his enemies.
    Solution? Remove the alarm or that behavior is punished from Support.
     
  8. hrdinajr

    hrdinajr Taxiarch

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    Yeah, not cool at all...
     
  9. rachapedras

    rachapedras Taxiarch

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    To see ports one does not send LS attacks to other cities. And if someone does it with that intention, he is saying that he knows little or nothing about the game.

    Someone who sends 5,10,20, ... LS attacks from the same city to other cities the only thing that is intended is to bother.

    This action is corrected by expelling the player from the world in which he does it.
     
  10. colosal

    colosal Phrourach

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    I agree with this, sometimes you gotta take a step back to move forward (going back to basics).

    If you think carefully about it, it makes total sense. It could be the only thing that can solve it. The problem is... that players are still able to use alarms while on browsers by using addons (grepotools, diotools) which should be just fine. But whilst you are at work or school, your phone is not going to alarm you of anything.

    I would suggest removing alarms from app/phone to its entirety.

    @Baudin Toolan
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  11. dadofwildthang

    dadofwildthang Phrourach

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    I have yet to see an agreed upon definition....@rhiannon67 if those attacks are a single harpy doing a wall, harbour check.. is that spamming....? Its a Legit Tactic, been okayed by Mods....used to determine if; are you awake and responding, Intel gathering and last generate movement to open up a different tgt.
    I see lots of attacks from 1 city to multiple tgts o different if they were all different cities attacking 1 of yours say minimum L/S reqd and then hit you some where else or lull you and then hit in force after ahr
    -is spamming sending, the minimum attack requirements, to generate misdirection, confusion, anger and mistakes.. all to get a result to the attackers advantage

    We have no agreed upon definition of "Spamming"
    We have no ability to judge whom is spamming or what is a legit "Ruse De Guerre"..

    Blindly throwing things out gives us no clear concise working starting point.. merely numerous upset folks ..all whom have their own point of view and legit opinions.. and others who are working to achieve an agenda of their own ...like spamming not all may as it seems to be...

    So let get an agreed upon Definition of Spamming that we can work from..
     
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  12. Oelyndeus

    Oelyndeus Phrourach

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    If the attacks land and aren't being recalled to be sent again repeatedly, I do not see it as spam. This is a war game, and sending many attacks is an important tactic. Also getting rid of the mobile app or alarm is RIDICULOUS and counter-productive. Stop with that.

    The only solution I see is to limit the amount of times a player can recall from one city during a certain time frame.
     
  13. Fluvisol

    Fluvisol Chiliarch

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Okay time for an extreme situation
    I'm sniping on the same island with harpies
    The city is far enough away that even a small speed difference can make for another anchor
    I have as anchors: 1 sword 1 archer 1 hop 1 horse 1 chariot 1 slinger 1 catapult 1 envoy (all different speeds)
    This means I have 9 tries on this snipe (8 anchors + no anchor)
    Add in Atlanta and that amount doubles, 18 tries now
    Per try I can generally send and recall 6 times
    This is now 108 times I will attack and cancel if the timer absolutely hates me
    Meaning to limit the amount of recalls during a certain time frame without reducing my ability to snipe in this situation would have to be 108, and that is assuming I don't get in 7 tries on an anchor or pop a speedboost/gold meteorology

    This is obviously a very extreme case but it shows how putting a limit on things like that can hinder actual gameplay
    It's a hard topic to get a solution for, I personally don't like limiting the amount of times you can do x because you can almost always think of a situation where the x+1'th time you do something is the time that has the most impact
     
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  14. molinillo

    molinillo Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    It happens quite often that a player whois online gets more, up to 6 notifications and sound alerts for practically the same command because of cancel/resend tactic, other than it’s annoying, it can cause lagging and prevent their own snipe attempts which is absolutely not the goal of the attacker/supporter. It even happens between friends when we try to snipe for a team mate for example.

    This proplem could be totally avoided if only finalized commands would generate notifications.
    Players who use the recall tactic cancel attacks within few seconds. As @Fluvisol posted 6 commands can be reached and 20 sec is available (antitmer x 2), so good timers cancel within 3-4 sec. Of course there should be a safety factor, not all players are that fast, but even if you only cancel and resend once that’s 2 attempts within 20 sec.

    Conclusion: a command (support too!) should only appear and generate a notification if it ran minimum 10-20 sec. (I think 10 should be enough.)

    Result:
    - no more unnecessary notifications
    - these type of commands could be extent from any spam limitations

    Question of anchors: different travel time

    Possible spam in this context: from same city, same travel time repeated commands that ran longer than 10-20 sec, appeared as command and generated notifications and alerts.

    Perfect timing could be totally eliminated as problem and open door for a better spam definition and limitations.
     
  15. MAC-9

    MAC-9 Chiliarch

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    It would be a lot easier if Inno ponied up and paid people to moderate their servers.
     
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  16. to1sky

    to1sky Phrourach

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    earlier in this thread, someone listed the reasons why one would turn to a strategy of spam attacks. One of the direct reasons was to prevent instant golding troops. I want to mention too that when a spam attack strategy is deployed, it may provoke counter spam attack strategies creating a snowball effect.

    I started playing in Athens world, and dont remember me in earlier worlds spam attacks as a general annoyance. There shld have been spam attacks back then too but it would not been more then marginal. On latest worlds, and this thread proves that it is evolving to a major annoyance, i see a correlation with the instant golding feature as in my perception the spam attack technique is a reaction against extreme instant golding by a few bunch of gold players.

    my point is that people choose for a spam strategy when the classic strategy remedy is not working out for a player, not only bcs a player is too skilled but bcs is also an efficient instant golder. The instant golding has permitted and skilled a bunch of gold players that are resistent against the classic war strategies. In the latest worlds, the regular strategy skills are countered by extreme instant golding technique and have created a condition where you need and want to deploy extreme techniques such as continuous attacks; spam or non-spam, to wear out and chase the target player away from keyboard. Extreme instant golding tecnique is countered by another extreme technique the spam attack strategy.

    imo, if you take away the extreme instant golding and as such restore grepolis as a strategy game, you would take away also at least a part of the breath for the spam attack strategy. I won't remove completely the spam attacks as a represaille technique but it will restore the classical toolbox of war and represailles strategies. I can imagine that this is not something innogames would like to hear.
     
  17. Fluvisol

    Fluvisol Chiliarch

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Personally I don't mind it when people gold to snipe or break a siege - it's quite satisfactory to know that someone had to spend (sometimes heaps of) real life money because they couldn't beat you without, and then just do it again the next time. But that could be just me since I don't take the game all that serious

    On top of that I think even big golders can be brought down with the "classic" strategy, it just takes some more support

    But I do agree that instant buy can be a reason for spam that is somewhat justifiable
    I would prefer that gold would only half the duration instead of instantly completing it, but I doubt that will be changed
    Maybe make it so that you can only half the duration instead of instant buy as long as there's any attack incoming to your city, no matter how far it is?
    It would still cause spam but at least not pings every 5 minutes, which is a step in the right direction imo
     
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  18. colosal

    colosal Phrourach

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Just take the alarms off the phone app

    Quite simple.
     
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  19. Zivico

    Zivico Hekatontarch

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    There could be a penalty if you cancel attacks a certain amount of times. For example, if you cancel more than 5 times in a day, troops are 20% less effective defensive and offensively for a period of time.

    This would deter endless attacking and cancelling spam.
     
  20. Rachel.L

    Rachel.L Phrourach

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    if i'm timing attacks/ support for a siege, i cancel at least twice that many in 5 minutes, let alone a day
    and it's not spam, it's fighting the anti-timer
    you can't penalize for that
     
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