Spartan 300: Epitaph.

NorthernOntario

Guest
(Let me apologize first of all for the length of this thread, read on if you wish).

Well, it was probably going to happen eventually & the writing was on the wall from when Hammer of Thor & SPARTAN 300 merged back in March 2012, but now it's finally here: the SPARTAN 300 has finally fallen apart, after being on a life support machine since probably June-July, it unofficially kicked the bucket after the failed JANISSARIES merger.

So for those of you on the outside looking in, what caused it you may ask? Simple: laziness & apathy.

The biggest falling in the slow, but inevitable demise of the SPARTAN 300 was the difference between those willing to give their all & those unwilling to do anything was huge & it became infectious to the point of endemic laziness, which created the side-effect of apathy among formerly eager & willing players that in turn, created the alliance that those concerned have seen, particularly in the last 5-6 months.

However, a big failing was in the part of the leadership itself in it's recruitment of members, by that I mean, how many couldn't speak English or just didn't communicate at all, if it was one, it was too many. The high turnover of players joining & those leaving, 1032 alliance changes as I write, only the Mergers of Rogue Chaos managed more than that!

SPARTAN 300 Vs SunTzu
Not long after the merger between Hammer of Thor, war broke out between after the player sk0612, who if memory serves, had been in VM along with many other former ERUSID members, suddenly was a SunTzu member, even though SunTzu/S300 had claims on his cities in our shared claims tab, which was an interesting way of recruiting him. Naturally, for the SPARTAN leadership, it was the straw that broke the camels back & was unwilling to stand for it & considering that SunTzu had just merged all the remaining ERUSID Federation into their alliance, while the SPARTAN 300 were still at war with them & potentially depriving them of an outright victory, it was no surprise that conflict broke out.

Was it the right decision? Quite simply...no, it wasn't.

It would've been smarter to eat a big slice of humble pie, as there were still other better opportunities. Who cares about refugees anyway!? A lot of good players have exited one alliance who're under attack & have got much better for the experience & for that are essentially "refugees", I don't think anyone would criticize the likes of Tarna, Shadowsoftheabyss, Sergo1985 & ManDRester, who were all respective members of alliances under attack by the S300 who're now great contributors to the SunTzu alliance & took many S300 cities.
I won't deny that I myself, played my part in talking a lot of trash about ERUSID & later on, Elite Union refugees, which I look back on as being somewhat misguided, but...live & learn.

After the Hammer/300 merge, the SPARTAN 300 were in transition & it was no time to be fighting an alliance like SunTzu, considering all the experience it had in it's war with Nordic Nightmares/The Brotherhood & the integration of two alliances after the merge was essentially, incomplete.
It was further exacerbated by the decision to treat The Elite Union (where a major attack against them was planned before the SunTzu war began) as one-and-the-same & include them in the conflict, which gave SunTzu an immediate ally with a common foe, when it surely should've been postponed indefinitely.
Almost immediately, S300 were fighting two alliances, but soon become four, as Response Error joined the conflict, as did Assassins Creed & even a few local Triad members in #67/8, until the pact with them was agreed much later.
Assassins Creed in particular were not large, but it gave unwanted focus to alliances that never should've have been involved & opportunities to avoid it to concentrate on the war with SunTzu weren't taken.

Eventually, as the war dragged on, even though no side had the advantage, it was just harder & harder to motivate people & even former Hammers who were real top players just didn't have any heart in the merge from the start & least of all the conflict. IGeo, Juovani, Tebowned, Blackshark, Pixie1968, Tominator, Meganpuppy to name but a few...there was a who's who of top hammers, who didn't perform to anything like the level they were capable of.
As for some of the rest of the Spartans who were there, their lack of effort, ability or just common sense even, was contemptible, the pathetic Kronus the (tit)an (Call Waiting loved this guy...) & Vannischong are two guys in particular that made my blood boil.

Eventually, hardly anyone gave a damn, by then, SunTzu weren't the problem, anymore than the SPARTAN 300 were the real problem when the ERUSID Federation collapsed, they were simple exposing the fundamental underlying problems that might've taken longer to expose, had the war not happened (maybe).

JANISSARIES merge into SPARTAN 300.
By this time I'd already left the S300, so I don't know the full details, but basically sswrexham was given a free hand to turn the alliance around & by the look of grepostats, in laymans terms anyway, it appeared he was doing just that, but in that time, one of the few accomplishments of the alliance was ripped up & handed to Mergers of Rogue Chaos i.e the deliberate W.W Tomb collapse.
I cannot even guess what MoRC could possible offer that meant stooping so low as to throw away everyone's effort to get the tomb built, was there even a vote on it?! It made the MoRC "takeover" of the S300 city on the SunTzu temple island look tactful in comparison.
If loyalty/teamwork/achievement meant anything, this should never have happened & even if there was a decision to give the tomb up since the S300 was in obvious terminal decline, why not approach Triad who were the pact allies & get them to raise their tomb to level 9 beforehand? Did all the long friendship with former Band of Brothers members who merged into Triad after their break up mean so little?
I can't imagine that the JANISSARIES, who'd just joined, were very happy about it & neither would I have been to be so blatantly shafted by MoRC, I mean what exactly could they offer? Moral support? They're at war with Triad/A.T.T.T!
Still, like any good pros of "Mergers & Acquisition", they got what they wanted, even though S300 so obviously got nothing.

Anyway, I don't know exactly what has occurred in the last couple of weeks, but I see on Grepostats that the JAN's have re-emerged, along with many former Spartans joining them & a further exodus to The Scorpions & the appearance of the alliance "Thrillos Bad Conscience", well...I'm not going to criticize Tom as he leads a busy life (too busy to be a founder of a large alliance I'm afriad...), I can guess that only he & Steve Wrexham will know the full truth anyways & I would least of all criticize Seydon, who gave his all for a long time, but he, just as the other real team players, who were too few & far between, were let down by the larger non-supporting cast.

To sum up: let this be a lesson to those who're looking for lessons on how to run an alliance; this is not the way to do it.

And don't put the name "Spartan" in your alliance or merge with one with it in it's name :)
"SPARTAN 300"
"Spartan Legacy"
"Rogue Phoenix Spartans"
"300 Spartans"
"SpartaBG"

None of them here now or won't be here much longer anyway.

Comments Spartans (former & present)? SunTzu?
 

Digital Mystikz

Strategos
Quite interesting, especially the bit about Suntzu having yet more pacts than i first thought. Well done Gumbles on keeping this quiet.

I'm sure without those other little wars you would have smashed SunTzu because then the odds would have been fair
 

NorthernOntario

Guest
Quite interesting, especially the bit about Suntzu having yet more pacts than i first thought. Well done Gumbles on keeping this quiet.

I'm sure without those other little wars you would have smashed SunTzu because then the odds would have been fair
Perhaps pacts could be too strong a word to describe, maybe "association through a common enemy", but...in any case, they worked together for sure, as I remember I helped break a siege in #67 that both Assassins Creed & Elite Union supported, I'm pretty sure that SunTzu only ever had two "proper pacts" when they were at war with the SPARTAN 300 & I don't think they weren't really working together against with SunTzu against S300, despite the accusations by some of the more paranoid, as SunTzu's pacted allies had their own large scale wars to fight.

Anyway, all academic now :) I think it would've required more teamwork from S300 to beat SunTzu & for most of the masses in the alliance, the inclination simply wasn't there, as hard as I & others tried to organize it, it just became soul destroying as individuals playing a team game didn't act as a team.
 

gumbles

Guest
(Let me apologize first of all for the length of this thread, read on if you wish).


Comments Spartans (former & present)? SunTzu?
Nice post Northern Ontario, and thanks for the compliments directed at our members. Not quite the same way we saw things unravel, but whilst not knowing what info you were privy too, as well as being on opposite sides then differences are to be expected. Appreciate the respect you've written it with, and the effort so I'll return the favour :)

The war had nothing to do with sko's cities, he was on vm when the merge took place, noone knew if he was coming bk so his cities were claimed, he came back from vm and joined us so the claims became obsolete. Doesn't seem anything complicated bout that, unless there's another unwritten rule somewhere that I was unaware of, not that it would have changed much. It is however also important to point out that BoB were at war with HOT at the time of your merge, and in the exact same way we merged with your enemy and asked you accept it, you merged with their enemy and asked they accept that. They did accept your merge, you didnt accept ours. Anyways sko's cities did certainly become the catalyst for the start of the War, but the actual War itself was inevitable with reasons dating back well before the merge.

Anyways, from our perspective:

As far as the actual war itself, it was a tussle and at times a good tussle untill WW era was close to commencing, but after we breached a few 300 WW islands in the week prior it became extremely apparent the spirit had gone from 300. We did our best at the WW resource thing till The Mergers claimed the "Winner of Athens" award, we were simmed out, bored into inactivity and thought the server was done. Many started going inactive (myself included) and I was about 1 week away from ghosting my account and had even said my goodbyes, was just waiting around a week to pass of cities before ghosting. Put that down to WW niaivety, we didn't even know there was another award left for grabs not that it would matter as we wouldnt be doing the resource simming again, most if us Despised it.

Anyways, then you guys did some good ops outta the blue and breached 2 of our WW along with considerable Mergers support. I don't say that to diminish your efforts in those takeovers, they were good ops . Im saying that because whatever agreement was reached between MoRC and 300 obviously happened between them completing the 4 WW, and you guys springing back to life. And spring back to life you did, the resurgance was amazing. You came very very very close, by then over 1/2 of ST were inactive and quite a few had left never to return, but those who had stayed dug in . And all i could think was when it counted you didn't fight, and now it doesn't count you fight like gods. Thus my rant on our profile home page, lol :)

To say I was a bit miffed would be the understatement of the year. But i was inspired by those SunTzu who had decided to stay till to the end, regardless the outcome and trust me it wasn't looking good. I apologised to those SunTzu who still remained, gave them my pledge i would be here till the server ends, and would gladly welcome anyone who chose to stay with me to break the Spartans once and for all. And thanks to those who did stay we had a resurgance of our own, and the rest is history.

As far as when the Erusid merger took place the agreement was that we would honour any NAP they had with other Alliances. Initially there were shared forums during the transition but it was unworkable and not necessary. Those alliances were told we'd honour the NAP and our doors were open to any members that wanted to come across, but there would be no pacts or shared forums. A handful of players came across of The Elite Union and later on I think quite a few came to us from The Assassins.

Also at the time Erusid came across, they were also (in varying degrees) fighting Triad & The Scorpions as well as 300 & Spartan Agoge, so with all due respect what initial success you had may not have been the case were they not fighting other Alliances on every flank and in every ocean they had.

Not sure if deliberate or not, but there was no mention of Spartan Agoge. Combined you had 320+members at the commencement of the war. It matters not now, but if trying to give an accurate portrayal of the initial conflict it should be mentioned. Again no disrespect intended, but your view gives the impression it was a solo 300 against multiple Alliances of superior numbers. In reality, you always outnumbered us 2 to 1 from the onset, and those odds grew in your favour as the war progressed not just with the merger of Janisseries , but also the merge of Lone Wolf, and there were some big players from Lone Wolf.

As far as Janisseries go, they were used by 300 leaders and totally mislead, of that i have no doubt. But from my experience with their leaders, they don't have a clue. We had never had any hostilities with them. ever. Didn't even know or care that they existed. Out of the blue srex sends a pm stating 1 of their members had joined ST and we were to hand his cities over or they'd take them from us. Didn't take long for that war to start ;) I'm not sure if maybe he was told and believed we were on our last legs, or if he was just used to dealing with rim alliances of 3 players. Their efforts against ST had no impact whatsoever, including when they realised they were in trouble so agreed with the merge into 300. And now, they'll have to deal with ST till the server ends, regardless them leaving 300. There was more impact when the 25 Lone Wolf joined than there was when the 100 jan joined, put it that way. In fact there was more impact when a few of the TB players joined as opposed to the 100 jan players, which doesnt really say much.

I'm pretty sure whichever worm was involved with the underhanded deals with the Mergers, would have found it extremely easy to fool and trick srex into anything they wanted. And they did.

And yes, giving the TOMB to The mergers drove a knife into the heart of every Spartan who hadn't given up. And sadly, there were some good Spartan fighters and contributors who have looked as inactive as a dodo bird's egg ever since the tomb was compromised and handed to MoRC.

We know who the true Traitor of 300 is, but we don't really care tbh. Ultimately, he did us a favour. So thanks Maciver :)

And finally, and what has always confused me, you failed to mention Glorius. When we had a city on your TOMB WW under siege, Glorius aided you in breaking that siege with over 150+ attacks, that's not something one Alliance does for another with no reason. Also there had been many city swaps between the both of you leading up to that. I actually thought you were at war with each other, lol, till they started attacking that siege. So I can't help but think the full story hasn't been told.

Thanks for your post , i just reread my response and please don't take any of it the wrong way, it was intended purely as an honest response with no malice at you. It's just sometimes hard to write in these forums without coming across as aggressive, I think ive been rattling the stupid bin to much....... but it is fun watching the rabid poodles going crazy :)

Cheers buddy
 
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sswrexham

Guest
reply to comments

i dont normally make public comments about internal business ...... but felt i had to respond to this.

Northern alot of your information is incorrect.

Janissaries had no knowledge of WW and these were given away by NAF before the merger with out any consultation with spartan membership.
Janissaries have never had anything to do with ww and where not informed of all the internal problems with-in spartan before the merger.
When we merged over we inheritted long outstanding problems which we tried to correct and did make some very good headway, but then an old spartan founder came out of VM and put a spanner in the works ... AGAIN without consulting membership or leaders.

To put it in simple terms .... we were asked to merge, our members had a vote and decided yes, we weren't aware of all the outstanding problems ....... we didnt like what we found ...... the problem wasn't regular spartan members, it was some old spartan founders who felt they where free to make decisions without consulting membership or leaders BEFORE making these. Total lack of communication, contribution and respect for others.
The regular spartan members where great guys and fun to work with.

We didnt like the old spartan style of management, so Janissaries got out.

p.s not that its of anyone elses business internal affairs between spartan and Jans ..... but there is so much untrue gossip flying around. Im sure spartan and janissaries would appriciate for all this gossip and untrue information to stop .... lets all just move on and enjoy the game.
I believe spartan want to continue in their war with suntzu having fun, thats totally up to them and their own business.

P.s .... Its a game gumbles .... learn to enjoy it and dont take it to serious, its not real .... and i can not understand why you always have to personally try and belittle someone.
And everyone knows the reason the war started between janissaries and suntzu was not because of the traitor member, but because suntzu wanted to find an excuse for a tactical advantage over spartan and you thought janissaries would be an easy target to advance over to achieve a better position against spartan. So be real and dont live in your gumble world.
 
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NorthernOntario

Guest
Steve, I've replied in PM.

Just to be clear to everyone, Steve Wrexham was not the decision maker behind the tomb collapse, which was already work in progress when the JAN's merged, my apologies if I wasn't clear.
 
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mulligan0411

Guest
no i think that's obvious Adam

Nafplion kicks out Jim the conquerer, Jim the conquerer rejoins. gifting the tomb to MoRC. i can understand why as SunTzu had just regained control of their own tomb island and was putting in a lot of res. then they were gonna do an op on the spartan tomb
 
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NorthernOntario

Guest
Anyways, then you guys did some good ops outta the blue and breached 2 of our WW along with considerable Mergers support. I don't say that to diminish your efforts in those takeovers, they were good ops .
MoRC support?! Didn't know anything about that!!! I remember the operation for the SunTzu tomb took place while our one was still level 8/9 & the Temple I believe, came after, but...MoRC support? This is the first I've heard of it.

I gotta admit that I was & never will be a fan of W.W, I think it just gives players a finish line, which, if you're at war with another alliance, does nothing for the motivation of alliance members, which may be a factor I hadn't considered before with the SPARTAN 300, it wasn't until after MoRC won four of the wonders & I read there was a Master of X award that it might be worth finishing them or getting to level 9, in the event that a competitor loses theirs.

I won't deny that the ERUSID Federations war with Triad & The Scorpions must have taken it's toll, I was aware of that after the war between HoT/S300 & ERUSID was over, but there were obvious leadership & management issues going on there, long before the war began.
But, just to point out, Spartan Agoge only appeared just before the conception of Bellatores Aurora & then their merge into yourselves & essentially served as an academy to members under 50k, due to the volume of members in Hammer of Thor & HoT Deuce (alliance caps maybe? Not sure now), though of course it had good players like SaintScott & Maciver leading them.
But yes, they were there, but looking at it from there we sat, SPARTAN AGOGE was just SPARTAN 300, we probably all saw the same forum...though not everyone read the same thing!

And finally, and what has always confused me, you failed to mention Glorius. When we had a city on your TOMB WW under siege, Glorius aided you in breaking that siege with over 150+ attacks, that's not something one Alliance does for another with no reason.
:eek: Wow! What can I say? GLORIOUS attacked StephaneV's W.W city that you had under siege? Another first this is! Was it with unescorted Transport boats? (Sorry GLORIOUS, you know I love you guys really...how're those cities I abandoned?) :) Must've been the first action they'd ever seen, other than inactives....or each other.
Maybe a call for siege-breaking assistance went out to them, I can't recall seeing it, but on the other hand, I likely wouldn't have gone looking for it either, but I doesn't seem unreasonable that such a request was made, but in terms of their assistance i.e support, I don't think GLORIOUS sent support to cities while I was there, I could be wrong.

Lone Warrior did indeed have some good players, but I think by the time they split from Band Of Brothers, those guys were focused on Zarkos & the S300 membership was more casual & I think we all know that, despite the fact that we can join multiple worlds, one is more than enough!
 
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NorthernOntario

Guest
no i think that's obvious Adam

Nafplion kicks out Jim the conquerer, Jim the conquerer rejoins. gifting the tomb to MoRC. i can understand why as SunTzu had just regained control of their own tomb island and was putting in a lot of res. then they were gonna do an op on the spartan tomb
Happy new year Jack, nice to see your about.

The Spartan Tomb island was full of active players & while there was 1 or 2 SunTzu cities in the ocean (not in the vicinity), but even if they were close by, so what? Most of the naval & ground forces to clear & support the siege would've had to have come from #65/66 at the closest & the CS would still take approximately 12 hours, maybe more from the cities in #75 & if they're sent from adjacent oceans, even with a city containing a lighthouse, you're looking at 24 hours AT LEAST.
I can't accept that the tomb couldn't have been defended & considering that the JAN's had just merged into S300, that's over 100 players that could've been called upon, so if 25 of those members sent 20 Biremes from each of their cities to those 20 on the island, well...you don't need to be a mathematician to work out the potential estimated numbers & considering that the members present on that island wouldn't have already been aware they had a responsibility to build a full quota of defensive units in the city, with tripwires (you reading this GLORIOUS?) well...you don't build slinger nukes on W.W islands lets face it.

But, to quote what I've said before....
why not approach Triad who were the pact allies & get them to raise their tomb to level 9 beforehand? Did all the long friendship with former Band of Brothers members who merged into Triad after their break up mean so little?
Well, when I heard it from whoever I was talking to on Skype, I found it very disappointing & if I hadn't have left already, then I would've left at this point.
 

sswrexham

Guest
I can't accept that the tomb couldn't have been defended & considering that the JAN's had just merged into S300, that's over 100 players that could've been called upon, .
Once again i need to correct Northern .... the tomb was already given away BEFORE the merge .... That means already GONE.

So i agree it was a huge stab in the back to spartan players by their founders .... but at this point spartan founders didnt care because they knew Jans where just about to merge and they could offload all their problems and chaos they had just previously created ....... It seems the spartan founder who did this had it all planned, create chaos and then jump ship to let the new management try and deal with it all.
So when Jans finally did merge, we arrived to find alot of very upset spartan players who where angry at old spartan founders .
But all this happened BEFORE the merge
 
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Maciver

Guest
Thanks for the mention gumbles.

Don't really see how I was a traitor to my alliance. Yes, I did join MoRC for a short while, but that was due to problems with the "new and improved" leadership that sswrexham brought in. And I'm back now.

But, I believe Nafplion did what was right it giving MoRC the Tomb. I fully back his decision. Out of all the alliances we have dealt with, they deserved it. I would dare say, that if BoB had still been around it might have gone to them as they were loyal allies from the beginning. Sswrexham argues that it could have been defended. LOL, apparently he isn't aware of how much N.O., Seydon and myself did and tried to get everyone to participate. At that stage you might just have handed the Tomb to ST.

True, Thrillos has gone bananas recently, but hey, its just a game and no one can say that the core of SP300 didn't fight well. (meaning those that were active and actually knew what they were doing)

I would like to mention those that really held this alliance together. (not in order of importance)
Thrillos, Nafplion, Seydon, Misfits83, SaintScott, Jim the conquerer, vano25, Northern, stengermeeldoos

This has been a great alliance to be apart of and learn from. Thank you

~and to the rest of you out there, Happy Hunting! :)
 

sswrexham

Guest
I never said it could be defended ..... wrong again Mac ..... like i said all this happened before my time.

I think you will find that was northerns quote not mine ..... do try and read mac please, i know your still in school and learning but please come on .... read correctly

Jans had nothing to do with WW, we were not involved with it.

Thats internal business between spartan founders and the membership.
 
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mulligan0411

Guest
Happy new year Jack, nice to see your about.

The Spartan Tomb island was full of active players
Sorry Adam i have to say you are wrong there to, as i was in contact with christian den store at the time of the tomb collapse and she said she was inactive over there as she was spending all her time over in Calydon defending her cities

happy new year to you to
 

NorthernOntario

Guest
Once again i need to correct Northern .... the tomb was already given away BEFORE the merge .... That means already GONE.
Okay, fine. But there was still enough to defend it from the number of players still there before JAN's merged.

Christian was still active at the time of the tomb handover because she had a rant about it, as someone who had now departed S300 had already said so. Maybe not fully participating, but active enough to see a CS coming from far far away.

:) Mac/Wrexham...you guys make my laugh with your bickering.

I would like to mention those that really held this alliance together. (not in order of importance)
Thrillos, Nafplion, Seydon, Misfits83, SaintScott, Jim the conquerer, vano25, Northern, stengermeeldoos
Stenger was great, I miss him, I was chatting to him on Skype once & he went "WONDERBOY has just got a CS in my city, but I've just got my golf-clubs out & I've opened a cold bottle of beer, so I'll let him have it" :D
 

ronnie4183

Phrourach
Stenger was great, I miss him, I was chatting to him on Skype once & he went "WONDERBOY has just got a CS in my city, but I've just got my golf-clubs out & I've opened a cold bottle of beer, so I'll let him have it" :D

Stenger and i had a great history, im very sad to c his alliance shaft him like that and give away the tomb. I just don't get it, people spend over 12months playing this game and you guy's give it away lol...Totall .....
 

Maciver

Guest
Sorry about that sswrex, yes, that was N.O. quote not yours.

It was a simple mistake. So lets just drop that and discuss this topic like men. (with out name calling and such)

@N.O.
Christian den store was pretty much only logging in once every day or two and she held a very large number of those cities. I seriously doubt if we could have successfully held it much longer.
 

sswrexham

Guest
Great so can we now keep Jan's out of the bit about WW please ..... as we had nothing to do with it and it was given away BEFORE the merge.
 

sswrexham

Guest
I would like to mention those that really held this alliance together. (not in order of importance)
Thrillos, Nafplion, Seydon, Misfits83, SaintScott, Jim the conquerer, vano25, Northern, stengermeeldoos
This is not what we discovered at the time of merge ...... We found these players (apart from Northern who had already left) where the ones that did nothing except watch (deadwood) ..... they just built defence cities and did not contribute anymore. ..... they might have kept the alliance going along time ago, but at the time of merge they werent actually helping or doing anything .....
Im sure the stats will confirm this of who was actually doing ......
 
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