Spartan 300: Epitaph.

Maciver

Guest
Do you even know why they were all building defensive cities and not really doing much else?
 

sswrexham

Guest
yes because they felt that it was the best thing to do as spartan players werent working together and the alliance was dysfunctional.

I don’t really know the past history of why Spartan players went in-active, stopped working together or communicating. These were long outstanding problems that had been going on for ages.
I guess it was a combination of a lot of things, so no point pointing the blame on any one thing.

All i know is when i asked for support once, i got 6000 bireme sent ....... when Thrillios asked for support everyone turned their heads.
To recieve support, you have to give support and not just watch.
But i can only comment on what i witnessed in my short time in spartan.

This whole thread seems to be about "What went wrong in Spartan" which Northern started

Putting things in perspective
The truth is no large alliance usually wipes out another alliance …. what makes alliances fall are : Traitors, Cowards and In-actives. (not conquest attacks).
It is impossible for any large alliance to completely conquest another alliance who has thousands of cities.

Therefore what dishonourable alliances do is resort to dirty game tactics, i.e. they use :-
● the "divide & separate" method … they use lies and propaganda hoping to separate the members from the leadership, once a leadership falls all their members are then fair game for them to kill off one by one.
Only the foolish will fall for this trick.
● Another dirty game tactic is to try constantly recruiting an enemies alliance membership by offering them reward … the truth is this never works out cos new members from and enemy alliance are never really trusted.
● And the last method they use to target a weak player hoping that they will be disloyal and jump ship.

The truth is because Athens is now coming to a close the placings are now as they stand.
1st MORC
2nd Triad
3rd Scorps

They have all played a good game and deserve their placings ...... the rest of us are just waiting for the game to finish so we can move on to another world.
 

mulligan0411

Guest
I would like to mention those that really held this alliance together. (not in order of importance)
Thrillos, Nafplion, Seydon, Misfits83, SaintScott, Jim the conquerer, vano25, Northern, stengermeeldoos
This is not what we discovered at the time of merge ...... We found these players (apart from Northern who had already left) where the ones that did nothing except watch (deadwood) ..... they just built defence cities and did not contribute anymore. ..... they might have kept the alliance going along time ago, but at the time of merge they werent actually helping or doing anything .....
Im sure the stats will confirm this of who was actually doing ......
i fail to see your point here wrexham. while i can't speak for Thrillos, Nafplion or Seydon. i can tell you that vano25 was a very good player that came up with some of the most successful ops S300 did on ST including the op on ST's tomb. as for the others.

Misfits83 - left
SaintScott - left and someone else has taken over his account
Jim the conquerer - RL is limiting his time playing grepo
and Stenger actually left 4 months ago due to RL
 
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sswrexham

Guest
like i said
my comment was based on what we found at the time of just joining ...... and .... who was still actively contributing at the time of joining.

im sure everyone done their bit at sometime or other in the past ...... but its an ongoing thing where continued contribution is required and just watching did not help the alliance move forward.

So maybe what these players should have done who no longer had the time to continue playing was give up their cities for reclaim and then left game .
Instead they kept their accounts, stacked their cities, and then just watched ...... The result was you end up with an alliance full of in-active members which lead to the down fall of spartan.

So these players that just watched, didnt actually keep the alliance going, infact they made things worse which encouraged other members to follow suit and just watch. The rot sets in.
 
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mulligan0411

Guest
:D. again SaintScott has given up his account, Jim still plays Athens but is also in Calydon and Stenger's cities right up until the moment i left were still up for claim. plus misfits is out of the world.

RL is more important but i guess most of your alliance is a bunch of kids so you wouldn't have the problem of people leaving because of work/family reasons do you


P.S. good luck in Gela, because your going to need it
 
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gumbles

Guest
I've actually liked some of your comments swrex, but not all.
I don't think anyone could possibly hold you or the merge with 300 responsible for the Spartans death, they were dead long before you got there, and the responsibility for that lies soley with the Traditional Spartan leadership/founders.And yes, they should have left the game a long long time ago.
The failed merge of Jan into 300 however is the sole cause of the fall of the Janniseries, and for that you should take full responsibility. I believe you when you say it was decided by a vote,but what your members were fed for them to even contemplate joining 300 in the state they were in, well that was your responsibility to them as a trusted leader to investigate properly. Anyone could easily have seen that 300 was fatally wounded and had no chance of surviving, stats alone made that glaringly obvious.
And ultimately, you merged into them, they didn't merge into you, and there must be some reason you did that, so i doubt the WW had no impact on your decision.
Putting things in perspective
The truth is no large alliance usually wipes out another alliance …. what makes alliances fall are : Traitors, Cowards and In-actives. (not conquest attacks).
It is impossible for any large alliance to completely conquest another alliance who has thousands of cities.

.
Ulltimately what makes Alliances fall that allow their 1000's of cities to no longer exist as part of that Alliance is their morale,thats why members leave that Alliance, and that solely depends upon leadership.

Traitors? sure they have an impact, especially when in leadership, but eventually they're found out. And regardless what damage is done, if the team's spirit and morale can be restored (leadership), that Alliance will recover.
Cowards? it's a game dude ;), i doubt anyone has nightmares over being told to go "over the top" here.
In-actives? Are always gonna be a part of the game, but it would be a safe assumption that the level of inactivity is directly related to how happy people are with the Alliance (therefore leadership of that Alliance), unhappy demoralised players go inactive, and when they do their inadequate leaders blame their inactivity for the demise.

Putting things in perspective
...... the rest of us are just waiting for the game to finish so we can move on to another world.
And that, is how we know Janisseries are now a spent force (figuratively speaking ofc) in Athens, and that makes your leadership now the exact same as Thrillos leadership or Seydon's or whoever was in charge of 300 during the detoriation. Your games over, but you'll hold the reins till your Alliance drifts into inactivity rather than hand it over to some new blood to try enjoy the remainder of the server.

There's a big difference between the Captain going down with the ship when all hope is lost, and the Captain deliberately steering it into an iceberg before anyone can get to the lifeboats.

Thrillos could never understand that, and i doubt you will either.
 

mulligan0411

Guest
never thought i would say this after all the rubbish you said in the war statistics thread. but gumbles what you said actually made sense and was right on the money. Thrillos is the reason behind the downfall of S300 especially if you check out what xenophon2 called his cities before he quit

http://www.grepostats.com/world/en25/player/2408069/colonizations

but i do have 1 question for you wrexham, you say the WW didn't impact your decision but surely the tomb was fully built when you was asked to merge with them as that sort of thing isn't taken with a pinch of salt is it
 

sswrexham

Guest
some interesting thoughts ..... i dont agree with them all though.

People go in-active for a number of reasons .... i.e. real life issues ..... so its not all down to morale as you imply

But i stand by what i said regarding players who no longer have time to play and some thing that i will agree with you.
If players dont have the time then they should leave the game to allow new blood to come to the front ..... in-active players only drag down morale.

The reason why players are waiting to leave this world is because this world has been won ...... Congrates to MORC

but i do have 1 question for you wrexham, you say the WW didn't impact your decision but surely the tomb was fully built when you was asked to merge with them as that sort of thing isn't taken with a pinch of salt is it
One of the terms of our merge was that Jan's had nothing to do with WW ..... dont like them, never have, and didnt want anything to do with them ........ if the spartan players who were already involved with them wished to carry on then that was their decision ...... In the time it took from agreeing to merge till the time we actually did .... in this period i believe the WW was given away.

P.s gumbles .... jans has not fallen and never will, atleast not to suntzu anyway ..... infact its the opposite.
Its amusing how you see things in gumbles little world.
You have to remember gumbles if spartan hadn't lost some of their big players to RL issues .... Suntzu would have been long gone.

One thing i will say about spartan, before the rot set in they where one of the best alliances around. and the only reason suntzu progressed is by taking spartan in-actives and their fleeing refugees. Elite union, assassin Creed etc.
So i dont think you have the right to gloat.
Our merger may not have worked out but i still have great respect for old spartan players, i.e. Northern, pixie, etc and we still class spartan as good friends (dispite our differences with Thrillios).
They had their way of doing things, and we had ours and the two sides just weren't made for marriage lol .... im far too good looking for Thrillios lol
 
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gumbles

Guest
The reason why players are waiting to leave this world is because this world has been won ...... Congrates to MORC
News must travel slow down in those parts, MoRC won that award 3 months ago, and you merged with 300 less than 4 weeks ago, I doubt you'd have bothered if you actually believed that was the end of the server ;)

some interesting thoughts ..... i dont agree with them all though.

People go in-active for a number of reasons .... i.e. real life issues ..... so its not all down to morale as you imply

But i stand by what i said regarding players who no longer have time to play and some thing that i will agree with you.
If players dont have the time then they should leave the game to allow new blood to come to the front ..... in-active players only drag down morale.
I think we're pretty much on same path and no, morale isn't the only reason players go inactive, but when an alliance as whole is affected by it to the point they fold, whilst those same players happily play with good activity in other servers, my money is on morale.

One of the terms of our merge was that Jan's had nothing to do with WW ..... dont like them, never have, and didnt want anything to do with them ........ if the spartan players who were already involved with them wished to carry on then that was their decision ...... In the time it took from agreeing to merge till the time we actually did .... in this period i believe the WW was given away.

P.s gumbles .... jans has not fallen and never will, atleast not to suntzu anyway ..... infact its the opposite.
Its amusing how you see things in gumbles little world.
Gumbles world rocks man :)

Simple fact of the matter is Jan merged into 300, they didn't merge into you. From what I can gather from this thread, you were the new management, you were the more stable Alliance, you were positioned in a more safer region , you had the greater (or equal might be closer) number of players and yet you merged into 300. There has to be a reason for that,no Alliance gives up there name for no reason, and the only plausible reason is that they had the Tomb. And at the time I was watching with a very keen eye very closely trust me, the Tomb was intact as the merge commenced. I don't believe for a moment you were responsible for it, I think they (not the Allaince, just the faceless MoRC traitors in their midst) shafted you according to a plan. There's no shame in being betrayed, it's a dissappointing aspect of this game regardless whether it happens to enemy or friend.

And any Alliance whose leader is simply waiting to leave this world is a dead Alliance.

The Spartans proved that.

On a side note:
Apologies for calling you clueless swrex, as I said from some of the points you've raised here I can see you're not
For the record, ST had no intention of ever attacking Jan, last I checked you're in the opposite direction to MoRC & 300 were already dead.
Northern Ontario has shown a good grasp of the games fundamentals and a good philosophy on how it should be played, I've been impressed :)
Mulligan and Maciver, should try WoW instead.

I'll be in gumbles world if you need me, just shine the gumbles torch into the sky. But I doubt I'll comment in this thread again. We can agree to disagree Peacetimes over and I've got better things to do ;)
 

sswrexham

Guest
your seeing things that are not there, the simple reason we merged into spartan and not the other way round , was it was just easier to move us than the other way round ........ this was the very simple truth of it.

Actually thinking about it Naf did insist we merge into spartan .... so your thoughts on being shafted on the ww theroy may or may not have been true ...... But i honestly believe seydon who we arranged the merge with had no part in this ........ Well id like to think he didnt anyway.

For the record, ST had no intention of ever attacking Jan, last I checked you're in the opposite direction to MoRC & 300 were already dead.
QUOTE]
Actually we had a very interesting conversation forward to us out of suntzu forum, before the war started, suntzu where planning on attacking Jans to gain a tacticle advantage on spartan ..... so we already knew your plans before the joker issue .... We knew it was only a matter of time,
 
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Maciver

Guest
Nafplion is the one who gave the Tomb away.

Jim and myself were the only other ones to know what he was doing.

And no, he isn't a MoRC spy. He has been a faithful co-founder for the past 10 months.
 

gumbles

Guest
Yes, a big thank you to Napflion for doing that :)
LOL that is pretty funny.

Not what you wrote, but the fact your hiding in vm inworld as you wrote it with 45 & 46 falling to pieces and those players left to defend for themselves, leaderless. Not farabub ofc, he ran to vm with you.

Inspirational stuff:)
 

billybob911

Guest
Actually we had a very interesting conversation forward to us out of suntzu forum, before the war started, suntzu where planning on attacking Jans to gain a tacticle advantage on spartan ..... so we already knew your plans before the joker issue .... We knew it was only a matter of time,
howdy all,

I have been the 2nd in command at SunTzu for some time now - I usually keep quiet and watch all this stuff with a big tub of popcorn (besides, gumbles is a much more fun spokesperson lol)

But that comment just cracks me up cause someone sold you some serious swampland!

Hell, when I was approached about joker, I said "who the hell is Janissarries and why do I care?" - hence, I never even responded to your email about it

but whatever makes you feel better I guess...
 

DeletedUser31161

Guest
We also started saying that about suntzu but then after 2 ls nukes we started killing ff all the others :D
 

NorthernOntario

Guest
Yes, a big thank you to Napflion for doing that :)
Acquiring large numbers of cities by the art of negotiation (i.e multiple-merging)
And to add to that, acquiring World Wonders by the art of negotiation (can't see what was gain for Spartans, it weren't pride).

I've been in alliances with leaders, founders, squad-leaders & council members...

Seems MoRC have teams of lawyers in there too. Still, it's not how you do it, just as long as you do.

Master of X award still up for grabs though, so all you mergers & acquisitions specialists, tighten your belts & braces on your pin-stripe suits, it's earnings season & you've just received a broker downgrade.
 

Digital Mystikz

Strategos
LOL that is pretty funny.

Not what you wrote, but the fact your hiding in vm inworld as you wrote it with 45 & 46 falling to pieces and those players left to defend for themselves, leaderless. Not farabub ofc, he ran to vm with you.

Inspirational stuff:)
I've never hidden into vm nor will i ever do. I had to do some travelings (because i have a job, yes some people work) which severely limited my online time. I knew you were gonna say something about the fact i was in vm, even though i almost never go into vm.
 
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Fleapak

Phrourach
The Mergers claimed the "Winner of Athens" award, we were simmed out, bored into inactivity and thought the server was done. Many started going inactive (myself included) and I was about 1 week away from ghosting my account and had even said my goodbyes, was just waiting around a week to pass of cities before ghosting.
Hello everyone, i've been part of SunTzu for over a year now, and i thinks its safe to say that i'm third in command or at least, "in command when gumbles isn't present and billy is busy with his popcorn"

Your Welcome gumbles, During this time I took over as Head of the alliance and even though many of us were inactive we managed to keep going. Sp300 would never have totally wiped out SunTzu. As long as an alliance has a few good and dedicated leaders left in it, it can survive. Which is why sp300 has fallen/is falling apart, its leaders have left or given up.

and sswrexham do you really think jan can defeat us? SunTzu is stronger than its ever been, not in player numbers, but certainly in points and activity. We never intended to attack jan, we did notice jan, but we never intended to attack it. There wasn't a master plan to wipe out jan in order to flank sp300, but once a war begins SunTzu fights till the end. I think the only time we have fought a war with an alliance and not ended up destroying it was a war with BoB near the beginning of SunTzu, we ended up becoming allies.

when you shine that gumbles torch don't be surprised if its actually a Flea than answers you lol

enjoyed reading this thread btw
 

sswrexham

Guest
Im sure you suntzu guys just like the sound of your own voice and propaganda lol ... amusing

You guys dont half take it all serious .... its a game .... get real ......... people play this game for fun ....... in their spare time ..... if they have spare time ......... its just a digital interface.

and remember guys a large percentage of suntzu is made up of fleeing refugees (assassin creed, Elite Union to name just a couple) or players you have stolen from other alliances because you have constantly bombarded them with attacks and propaganda, so they had no choice to join you in the end, so no need to gloat.

But yes you are masters of propaganda .... so congrats on that ...... Now let people enjoy the game and sign on when they want, otherwise yes you are gonna force them to leave ....... congrats on that too .

But one thing that gumbles and myself do agree on ... is that if leaders dont have the time to play due to RL, then they should step down and allow others to step up.
You suntzu guys obviously have alot of spare time.
 
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Tarrna

Phrourach
A thought!

Well, I guess i am going to finally say something (GRIN)! I am in the top ten of "Suntzu" and i have been here for sometime.
There really was never a plan to attack Jan. We just really like to play but some of us have not been that serious or we had eaten you already :p
We get that it is a game and that we just think very differently from you. Suntzu is the team that it is because we communicate and work together. I guess i would be one of those refugees you so loving refer to (grin)! I do not believe in the "refugee" status" and never have. Patience and time reveals a lot of things and sorry to say but your perception of events "sswerexham" are way off.
Seen people come and go and i am sure we have made misjudgements on your team but mostly what "Gumbles" has said has been right on the nail!
Sorry to see the world slowly winding down but what to me is more sadder yet is the abandonment of many people. I get that people have a real life. I intend to go on and will finish but hopefully i am blessed by the team I am with in the next game. Teamwork really does make the difference here.
I personally dislike picking off dead bodies on a team that has died. I have felt this way for sometime on Spartan team. Rip Spartans !
Respect only to those that deserve it and they know who they are :) Keep playing and perhaps some of you will play against me or with me in future. Peace to all :p