TFP Vs DoA #2

DeletedUser

Guest
More people are starting to leave TFP for other alliancea, as they fall to 6th place in the point ranking, not that it matters...

TFP leads Ocean 84 by 2000 points...
 
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DeletedUser5270

Guest
I feel the need to take a look at the fall of TFP. I may now be in IOA but I am most definitely a looser in this war as I was one of TFP's biggest players.

The fall of TFP actually started before the war with DOA started. TFP expanded heavily and very fast. TFP believed that they could challenge for the number one spot in Delta. Integral to this was having Pergamum and Rainmaker merge into them. Both these alliances chose to merge into DOA. This was a double whammy, a major diplomatic setback for TFP and a major diplomatic triumph for DOA.

TFP then started the war by a surprise attack in the belief that it was better to burn out than fade away. DOA repulsed most of TFP's attacks and then immediately put TFP under incredible pressure for a short time before we set into a war of attrition which DOA was slowly winning against TFP from the word GO.

From the Pergy/ Rainmaker mergers onwards there was a feeling of inevitability in TFP regarding the final defeat. This resulted in a steady trickle of TFP's best players quitting Delta and TFP was not able to replace them. This sapped the life blood from TFP.

Rather than attacking DOA, TFP found itself just taking its own inactive cities in order to defend its own territory. This was a pattern that continued for the whole war with only a few exceptions. As more players quit the pressure increased and resulted in more players quitting.

In the end TFP could not cope as the pressure was costing them too many good players. Ocean 76 was overrun by GROM and his warriors. and the pressure arrived at the core oceans.

When the pressure got too much the internal cohesion of the alliance started to fracture which led to its current massive decline.

I will talk about the internal cohesion of TFP during the war later.

I am trying to be honest in this appraisal but accept that some bias is probably inevitable.
 

DeletedUser5270

Guest
Whilst DOA/IOA and to a small extent TH/Black and others was a massive challenge for TFP to over come. The very fact that such a strong coalition existed is not an excuse for TFP but merely a reason to say congratulations to DOA for getting its diplomacy right and credit has to go to Fortyfour for that.

Anyway, even against all this I do not believe that TFP merely lost the war due to the sheer size of the opponents facing them. For a start the majority of the war was conducted by DOA and this can't be taken away from them. IOA obviously played its part but the other alliances mostly just contributed biremes when a TFP city had a DOA CS in it. So the glory for the victory has to mainly go to DOA.

The reason why I believe TFP lost the war, I believe was down to the leadership of TFP being substandard compared to DOA. This isn't a criticism of TFP. It is merely an acknowledgement that DOA's leadership was better.

DOA may have been the bigger alliance but the simple truth is that TFP had a massive local superiority. DOA are much more spread out than TFP were and therefore even though they are a more powerful alliance TFP had the regional advantage. TFP totally dominated Oceans 74, 75 and 76. TFP also totally dominated Oceans 85 and 86 and had an alliance with God's Heroes who dominated 84.

In short TFP were free to concentrate all their localized power on the one front with DOA and did not have to worry about attacks from behind. This is where TFP failed. TFP failed to concentrate its strength in a meaningful way. Many players remained behind the lines and were never involved in the war. Possibly as much as 60% of TFP did not participate in this war as they were not on the battle front and made no attempt to get to the battle front. Moreover the leadership (including me) did not adequately do enough to get people who were behind the lines onto the front line. Conversely we did not do enough to help those players who were totally on the frontline to have a few safe support cities behind the lines. I believe this was the single biggest mistake of TFP's leadership. As a result, TFP simply did not bring its full strength to bear, which is inexcusable considering TFP's local strength advantage, and I believe this is what ultimately cost TFP the war.

Towards the end of the war TFP's Ruling Council fell out with each other. Oh heck, lets be honest I fell out with the Council. It wasn't a heated debate, it was simply a polite difference of opinion, but I believe this falling out is what led to the spate of top TFP players leaving. I could be wrong but this is my opinion. Most of the Council wanted to kick out most TFP players and form a small elite alliance out of TFP with a few bigger players. Maybe players with 20+ cities. I opposed this on the grounds that TFP was loosing big players and a small elite alliance loosing a few big players would feel the loss even more keenly. TFP's small players were mostly behind the lines and were not costing the big players any resources in protecting them as basically they were safe and didn't need too much protection. I also felt a bit of loyalty to these smaller players. If TFP was to survive in the long term then it needed new blood and this could only come from developing some of those small players, as TFP was basically surrounded even though there was only one front. Whilst Tibs stayed out of this argument I think he would have actually sided with me as it was during this argument that he announced that Gods Heroes would merge into TFP. It was shortly after this arguement that H17 and HTS Gavin announced they were leaving Delta.

It was very quickly after this that Tibs had his little rant on this forum. I looked at the situation and did not fancy being in a TFP lead solely by the vulgar Tibs and with no HTS Gavin and H17 to control him. I therefore just quit. I was without an alliance and am lucky FortyFour got in contact with me.

I may be bigging up my own feeling of self importance here but I believe that if I had stayed then we could have held TFP together, even if the war would have eventually been lost. Every other major player who had quit TFP had simply left Delta. When I quit TFP I was TFP's largest remaining player and all my cities suddenly appeared on the rankings as IOA cities, due to Forty Four snapping me up. After I quit I received many emails from TFP players saying along the lines of "my goodness me what shall we do now?" I was the one who argued most vocally that TFP could win. I was the one who argued that it was actually impossible for TFP to loose. This may be my own vanity speaking but I honestly believe my changing sides was the straw that broke the camels back.

Anyway a big hearty congratulations to FortyFour & DOA/IOA for a war well won. Also a big hearty congratulations to all the DOA/IOA players who fought in this war; and also a big hearty congratulations to all the TFP players who fought in this war. All sides made it a good and fun experience.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Well written, I feel that I have turned my back on TFP too quickly :(. I never liked the war from the start, maybe it was because I had the since if we started to obviously win TH would swoop in and stop us cold, It would probably not be be because then DoA could say they won, but for two important reasons, DoA have been supporting TH and vise verse for quite a while, they are very close allies, and second if DoA were to fall, TFP would pose a major threat to TH, with the combined pressure of LoC,EoTD,TFP and other TH could fall... None the less, I felt the leaders weren't handling the war correctly. H17,dog, and HTS Gavin leaving, was the the final blow, Not only did I majorly dought Tibs skills to leader a alliance alone, but to represent TFP ina good way, flying under the TFP banner IMO was a sign of bad sportsman ship.
 

DeletedUser12311

Guest
I never liked the war from the start, maybe it was because I had the since if we started to obviously win TH would swoop in and stop us cold. If DoA were to fall, TFP would pose a major threat to TH, with the combined pressure of LoC,EoTD,TFP and other TH could fall...

I would like to point out that if you managed to overtake DoA then you would probably overtake The Huns too.

Besides We have them occupied over in the west anyway ;) (I'm sure they'd argue with me on that :p).
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Well before DoA would fall it would turn into TFP, vs IL,DoA,IoA,TH,Asylum,Black,Ravens,ILWA instead of just a few a attacks here and then from everyone but IoA and DoA. if TFP won the war delta would be changed forever. Not sure if TFP would pact with LoC,EoTD, and some of those alliances or go strait back into war, LoC have a current pact with TFP but don't know how well that is forged.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
The end of a war, the start of another

Thanks Imperica for that honest opinion of your inside take on the situation. It was interesting to see and I always find the workings of what was going on in the enemies head to be fascinating. Wars with big alliances are always complicated endeavors and the how's and why's of victory come from multiple areas and reasons. Thanks for your take on it, I"m sure everyone would agreed that your honesty is refreshing.

The reason I did not hesitate to contact you is you always showed yourself to be a skilled, intelligent, well spoken player, who acted and treated others with respect. Those are traits that DOA always covets in its members.

It was a fun war and it was a hard war, but I think now that TFP has dropped down to 7th and soon to be 8th we can call its end offical and close up this thread.

Thanks again for all who were involved and I hope it was enterataining for everyone as that's the purpose of Grepolis is it not? To suck away our freetime - and much of our not so free time in a wave of enjoyable entertainment.. I think we accomplished that.

Now we are on to our next War front..

Thessalos and God-Kings take note. You took full advantage of our limted resources during our TFP war, marking our weak spot as a target and attempting to take advantage while we were occupied. You attemptes time and time again to push at our northern front where we were thin and yet Tribulus and his warriors held firm even when outnumbred 3 to 1. thanks in large part to assitance from vengence and IL. It has come time to collect for those transgressions. We will soon be making you our main priority, and I hope it will be as entertaining as our last conflict. I know I look forward to it as do many others who are looking for their next bit of entertainment... notice has been given.. For every action there is a reaction and ours is coming...

God-Kings and and their allies Pugnacious Spirt are now fully at war with DOA as a whole.

forty
 

DeletedUser

Guest
so have all of TFP agreed the war is over?
Did I miss something, what is going to happen with the other players in TFP?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
There are still 103 TFP players left but I'd wager a good portion of those are inactive or so far away we can't reach them yet. TFP will be considered an enemy and we will attack and take TFP cities for the forseeable future, but there is little to no resistance involved and it no longer can be considered a war.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
so have all of TFP agreed the war is over?
Did I miss something, what is going to happen with the other players in TFP?

I've sent several attacks against bigger players in O74, not on relation attack, the one who are active have their forces worn down to the bone..
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Thanks Imperica for that honest opinion of your inside take on the situation. It was interesting to see and I always find the workings of what was going on in the enemies head to be fascinating. Wars with big alliances are always complicated endeavors and the how's and why's of victory come from multiple areas and reasons. Thanks for your take on it, I"m sure everyone would agreed that your honesty is refreshing.

The reason I did not hesitate to contact you is you always showed yourself to be a skilled, intelligent, well spoken player, who acted and treated others with respect. Those are traits that DOA always covets in its members.

It was a fun war and it was a hard war, but I think now that TFP has dropped down to 7th and soon to be 8th we can call its end offical and close up this thread.

Thanks again for all who were involved and I hope it was enterataining for everyone as that's the purpose of Grepolis is it not? To suck away our freetime - and much of our not so free time in a wave of enjoyable entertainment.. I think we accomplished that.

Now we are on to our next War front..

Thessalos and God-Kings take note. You took full advantage of our limted resources during our TFP war, marking our weak spot as a target and attempting to take advantage while we were occupied. You attemptes time and time again to push at our northern front where we were thin and yet Tribulus and his warriors held firm even when outnumbred 3 to 1. thanks in large part to assitance from vengence and IL. It has come time to collect for those transgressions. We will soon be making you our main priority, and I hope it will be as entertaining as our last conflict. I know I look forward to it as do many others who are looking for their next bit of entertainment... notice has been given.. For every action there is a reaction and ours is coming...

God-Kings and and their allies Pugnacious Spirt are now fully at war with DOA as a whole.

forty

Don't forget The Satraps, but I'd wager they're going to collapse soon enough
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It looks like GK is trying to save Satraps, Tazar has changed flags and the best guess is to try and stop the hemorrhage.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I've sent several attacks against bigger players in O74, not on relation attack, the one who are active have their forces worn down to the bone..

eh? There are no large, active members of TFP in O74.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Towards the end of the war TFP's Ruling Council fell out with each other. Oh heck, lets be honest I fell out with the Council. It wasn't a heated debate, it was simply a polite difference of opinion, but I believe this falling out is what led to the spate of top TFP players leaving. I could be wrong but this is my opinion. Most of the Council wanted to kick out most TFP players and form a small elite alliance out of TFP with a few bigger players. Maybe players with 20+ cities. I opposed this on the grounds that TFP was loosing big players and a small elite alliance loosing a few big players would feel the loss even more keenly. TFP's small players were mostly behind the lines and were not costing the big players any resources in protecting them as basically they were safe and didn't need too much protection. I also felt a bit of loyalty to these smaller players. If TFP was to survive in the long term then it needed new blood and this could only come from developing some of those small players, as TFP was basically surrounded even though there was only one front. Whilst Tibs stayed out of this argument I think he would have actually sided with me as it was during this argument that he announced that Gods Heroes would merge into TFP. It was shortly after this arguement that H17 and HTS Gavin announced they were leaving Delta.

The war was long over by this point, that idea was just clutching at straws.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I only have a message to those TFP players who join now dragon reborn alliance:
-yes Fortyfour gave you NAP but its guarded by some restrictions, so if any of you dont want to fight us anymore I strongly suggest to stop fighting. Only because you jump the ship it doesnt make "untouchable".
I will not tolerate any cocky mails sent to me - we were at war, we still are, if you want to save your skin, dont write to us with your cocky demands and grievances, dodge any incoming attacks, dont cast storms etc. Some guys think that only because they jumped the ship they can start killing my units, order me to stop and nothing bad can happen to them. WRONG!
You are all refugees, you lost the war so fight if you wish but if you want to be left alone dont provoke me and my teammates.

If somebody wasnt disrespectful or "nasty" during the war then will be not attacked by me. However if you think I can cancel my attacks after few hours, then again you are WRONG. Attacks CANNOT be canceled after so much time and only becasue you changed the banner (read that twice some of you and LEARN finally to play this game). So if I sent attacks on a TFP member and meanwhile he becomes DR member it doesnt mean he can kill my units and get away with that - I will come back and clear all his/her cities. Dont provoke us in oc76 or we will give you the same treatment we served those TFP players who were actually fighting during that war.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
We don't have one, they are non-essential in regards to us and have no diplomatic considerations at this time.
 
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