The Demise of Grepolis (premades)

Fist Of The North Star

<img src="http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7179/
When I first started playing Grepolis I was thrown into a magical world of fighting, strategy and a community of trial and error. My first world was Epsilon and I joined (like many newbs) randomly and without knowing anyone, As the game progressed you would change alliances often and meet new people. This was probably the best aspect of Grepolis in my opinion and when a new world was announced the 'Unknown' was incredibly exciting :)

Where would I end up? (always selected random) who would i meet? what alliances will I fight and who will guide me to victory or defeat? The mystery and chance of Grepolis made me fall in love with the game over and over and over.

My first encounter of a 'Pre-made' was 'Black Shadows' in Kappa, I had recently quit Iota (loved that world) and was looking at the forums to see what I could expect in kappa. Of course the forums were buzzing with the topic of who black shadows where and would they succeed, I admit i was curious to see how an 'Elite' alliance would work.

Since then however (kappa was actually amazing to begin with) Grepolis has become rife with premade alliances, people playing with the same people, recruitment based on stats and who knows who and quite frankly I find it dull :D, Premade alliances are the very reason I am bored of Grepolis. It is as if people can no longer function unless they are surrounded by people they know before a world opens.

I hear many people say that Premades never win and 90% of the time i would agree with you but that is not the point, there is no 'Mystery,chance and unknown' anymore. Either a premade fails or completely destroys all competition to the point of 'Why bother playing' (Project venom and shadows fall for example)

So I want your input on the following

  • Can a world exist without a premade?
  • Do you believe Grepolis is dependant on people mustering together before a world opens, rather than taking the old school approach of 'see what happens'?
and finally

  • Do you want a world without Premade alliances?



I apologise for my awful grammar
 

Thomas

Guest
I believe one can exitst without premades although people will always favour those who they already know over those they don't when recruiting, especially when they know this person to be respected on the forums.

It is only the worlds where there is 1 dominant premade where it becomes an issue, like in Corinth. If there are 2 or 3 decent premades the world is great normally!

I see where you are coming from and i agree with basically everything you said!
 

PrincessLozza

Guest
Can a world exist without a premade?

Yes and I agree could be quite fun, my most active world was Iota and I randomly landed joined a none-premade. I knew no-one around me at all. I got to know everyone (I did get dumped with founder rights a week after arriving in alliance!) but it was good fun :)

Do you believe Grepolis is dependant on people mustering together before a world opens, rather than taking the old school approach of 'see what happens'?

No not at all.

I've done this a few times, actuallly my first world Theta was premade from a group from Evony, though it was fun cos none of us knew how to play lol but after doing it on Xi (Nemesis), I was sat in a chat room on skype for 2 months and although I didn't know many people I did by the time xi came out and yes it took some of the fun away... and was a big fail! I've said I would avoid that kinda of premade again tbf

and finally

Do you want a world without Premade alliances?


Yes I would, though I do wonder if friends will end up pacting up or once in game joining up. Whether it would work in practice.

I like Daizan's idea of creating 4 even core alliance through a premade tho :)
 

Tyrion

Strategos
Can A World Exist Without a Premade?

I think this is completely possible. While Alpha began with TW-S already in place as most of the players coming from TW formed that alliance and formed the major player base of the game, Beta seemed to be without any such form of premade alliances. That world has seen more than it's fair share of wars and diplomatic intrigue. A world without a premade means that players are going in blind. Not knowing who they will be facing in that world. But not only that, players can find a sense of acheivement because they don't have to worry about some premade alliance of 'elite' players taking over the server like PV did.

Do you believe Grepolis is dependant on people mustering together before a world opens, rather than taking the old school approach of 'see what happens'?

Very much so, and this is a sad outcome. Too many people in this game think that stats from worlds with various settings are more important than finding a new dynamic. I will acknowledge Daizan's attempts at creating a premade for specific purposes in mind and not just for creating an 'elite' premade. To be perfectly honest, creating the Premade section in the Acropolis has likley led to this becoming more rampant in the past months. I have on numerous occasions considered removing it completely from the forums as it was nothing more than a place for players to 'create' an alliance that 9 times out of 10 were not ever going to happen. Furry created a joke premade illustrating just that fact. The reason that most of these premades never start is because they want very specific world settings. Most of the combinations won't happen because all a player needs to do is look at the trend for settings and realize that Grepolis won't have three worlds with Speed 2 in a row.

Do you want a world without Premade alliances?

I would love to see this happen. Will it? Highly doubtful at this point. I think that the game has sadly become too dependant on premades for a world to be created completely free of them. Of course I would love for this to be proven wrong, but with Hero Worlds coming and whole alliances able to enter together, premades are sadly here to stay. :(
 

Fist Of The North Star

<img src="http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7179/
lets not forget the fact that as soon as hero worlds where announced, a premade was constructed almost instantly :D its horrendous
 

Asth

Guest
I agree; I too began the same way (and funnily enough the first time I looked into a premade was in Kappa) and thoroughly enjoyed the unknown and meeting new people. Saying that, there's nothing wrong joining a world with a few friends, but a whole alliance (premade) is overkill.

PS. World with Alliance Cap of 1 ftw.
 

fingolfin

Phrourach
Can a world exist without a premade?
I think a world can exist without premades but it would be a lot different from what a grepolis world normally looks like. I'd like to think that it would be more interesting and there would be more fights and a more even distribution of players across alliances but I reckon your still going to end up with one or two alliances that just dominate.

Do you believe Grepolis is dependant on people mustering together before a world opens, rather than taking the old school approach of 'see what happens'?
I think a lot of people find a group of players that are similair to them in ability and activity and they get familiar with this group. I'm much happier fighting alongside someone I know then someone I don't and I think its this that causes people to group together with the same faces. If you know that someone is a good player why wouldn't you want them in your alliance?

and finally
Do you want a world without Premade alliances?
I'd love to play a world with no alliances full stop. I think that making everyone fight for themselves would make for an awesome world but its never going to happen. If a world without premades make the "elite" players fight each other rather than allow them to group together then I'd like to play that world too.
 

daizan

Strategos
It's not about the premades, it's about who is leading them, most of the top players don't want to end up in an alliance with a incompetent leaders because they don't want to have to get involved with that side of things, so when their is a stable leadership looking to start a alliance everyone jumps on board coz god knows when the next one is going to come along.

Fingers crossed if chaos decide to join the draft we will have at three decent leaderships teams in place alreadt and lot of players like myself and pyth available as draft picks that are capable of helping the founders out when they need it.

Personally I love the hype and the smack talking premades bring to world it makes the forums fun because you know they are gonna have to eat their words majority of the time.
 
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Skullyhoofd

Guest
PS. World with Alliance Cap of 1 ftw.
I would love to see this happen sometime, but it interferes with the world wonder concept. Also, I think people will create external alliances anyways. :p
 

Fist Of The North Star

<img src="http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7179/
It's not about the premades, it's about who is leading them, most of the top players don't want to end up in an alliance with a incompetent leaders because they don't want to have to get involved with that side of things, so when their is a stable leadership looking to start a alliance everyone jumps on board coz god knows when the next one is going to come along.

Fingers crossed if chaos decide to join the draft we will have at three decent leaderships teams in place alreadt and lot of players like myself and pyth available as draft picks that are capable of helping the founders out when they need it.

Personally I love the hype and the smack talking premades bring to world it makes the forums fun because you know they are gonna have to eat their words majority of the time.
no one even bothers to smack talk really any more and it ends pretty quickly once a premade dominates

I don't care who is leading a premade, i just dont like them :D you say most players dont want an incompetent leader....well do the old fashion system of leaving and alliance and seeking a better one

the draft idea thing you had was cool....but its still a premade
 

PrincessLozza

Guest
It's not about the premades, it's about who is leading them, most of the top players don't want to end up in an alliance with a incompetent leaders because they don't want to have to get involved with that side of things, so when their is a stable leadership looking to start a alliance everyone jumps on board coz god knows when the next one is going to come along.
I'd agree with this tho, one of the reasons nenemis failed was cos it lacked leadership and everyone looked Atti mainly but Jennesis and I also to step up.. and none of us wanted to lead, especially when metalcore was still getting all the credit for the work we did. It would be a worry tho if I joined a none-premade, gettng a rubbish leader and I'd not be able to stop myself getting involved!
 

Die Xerxes

Guest
Can a world exist without a premade?

I believe a world can exist without them, if a world can't then idk how the "old" worlds are still going.

Do you believe Grepolis is dependant on people mustering together before a world opens, rather than taking the old school approach of 'see what happens'?

From now on it seems like the worlds will be dependant on people coming together from other worlds in a premade type fashion even if no premade was put together. That will happen because players will want to fight alongside players they know and will drag them over from other worlds.

Do you want a world without Premade alliances?

I would love a world without premade alliances or alliances in general, it would add a new aspect and enjoyment to the game.
 

PrincessLozza

Guest

From now on it seems like the worlds will be dependant on people coming together from other worlds in a premade type fashion even if no premade was put together. That will happen because players will want to fight alongside players they know and will drag them over from other worlds.


Yeah the invite thing encourages this too...
 

GothamSoldier

Phrourach
I think the game depends, to a point, on premades. There are many world settings that many premades will not touch....Speed 1, Morale Activated etc. Those worlds seem to be going OK based upon my limited knowledge of them.

I think Daizan's idea of 4 + relatively equal alliances starting out in the first hero world with decent settings is fantastic. Of course, plenty of other alliances will enter that hero world as well. I think it may set up to be the most epic server yet. The initial premades will only add to the fun & smack-talk of it.
 

SjsharksBoy

Mr. Mu (August)
Well, I would love to see a world without premades(or at least premades without nooby leaders). I doubt that will ever happen though...
 

Tyrion

Strategos
In my humble opinion, it seems that few 'elite' players are willing to give a new player the chance at leadership. I understand wanting to have a stable leadership team to run the alliance, but I've been in an alliance which was a premade and contained excellent leadership. However, as that world continued, you soon began to realize that there were too many leaders and not enough followers.

If a player is really that good, does it matter what the alliance leadership is like? You can take your own experience and advise on what can be done. If that player doesn't want your advice, just leave the alliance and join a new one. A great player will always be recognized by their in-game name, not their alliance.
 

socrates34

Phrourach
Leadership is vital to a successful alliance.

Project Venom isn't a good example of what you are talking down because most of the 'ringers' quit in the first 3 months or so. Most of the players who topped that alliance were fairly unknown or completely unknown. They learned from the leadership and others and become very good players in many cases.

i think the problem is that the old veteran players aren't making the transition from the old version of the game to the new one. the new version has suffered from bugs and in many people's opinions balance issues with the new gold options. using lots of gold now gives players a potentially enormous advantage over the far less signifcant one with the old version.

since the old vets aren't there to teach the next generation of players how to run an alliance or even how to play the game there is a significant knowledge gap. without competent instructors many possible good players quit and move on to another game.

your analysis of what kills worlds is incorrect. it isn't the large premade that dooms it. it is what has become the traditional response to it from the other alliances that 'kills' it at least for the other alliances. the big alliance should be thrilled whenever they see that response. the leadership of the big alliance is not responsible for the lack of strategic awareness by the other alliances.
 

PrincessLozza

Guest
You could offer a mentor system, someone not joining the world with experience helps a 'new' leader set up a new alliance with new players and instruct them in order to bring some new blood through maybe :)