The Fall of Bad With Names

I finally got my forum account back and I promised that this would happen if Bad With Names died. It has effectively died and are now Return of the Cabbages and Rise of the Carrots. But neither of those are Bad With Names really. So what happened? Why did they fail here? I'll offer my perspective as a former founder and as someone that watched the decline start from the inside and outside. I'll make an in depth analysis of what went wrong, when, and how based on experience and what I heard or saw in some cases.

Note: That this isn't meant to be an insult to the Bad With Names players and leaders on the whole. Though some are going to be brought up more than others. Also this is gonna be long as hell. But if you're interested in why they fell and a little history behind it, here you go. Welcome to my take on it.

Heliopolis: I can't really do this without covering Bad With Names' first world and what they were founded to be, or at least my vision of what they would be. The long story short is that it was founded by myself, Darkstar, Nick, Adam, Goku, Oznob, and Kimimela. The Llamas leaders were in the mix for a moment but that broke down quickly and became another thing. The alliance was primarily built by Goku, myself, Miknel, and Dizzljoe in terms of recruiting with others contributing. As for my vision, I wanted to create an alliance that was capable of defeating Black Zone Crusade and Bedtime Squad. The starting line up for Bad With Names and Llamas is something that I can confidently say will never be beaten. Simply put the team was stacked and couldn't have a want for effective siege breakers, front line fighters, or supporters. However for all the highs of this world and it managing to do exactly what I had in mind both with and without me, the decline started here and began awhile before I even left and definitely continued after. Here are what I believe to be the main points of decline in that world.

Miknel/MP leaving- Say what you will about Mik. The guy knows grep. The guy has a solid group. They formed a huge part of Bad With Names in the early days. The majority of them left. While that's a major hit on its own the reason why I put this as a major reason for decline is that from that there was no more incentive to hold everyone accountable or have incredibly high expectations or even follow the blacklist the guy made. All of these became arguments and issues. Suddenly someone's friend was protected even if they didn't follow the rules listed.

Example of this: Estlando was clearly off alarm. Hell Kimi, a leader, was clearly off alarm at times.

There were seven where probably three or four would have done. There's really not enough roles to justify having seven leaders. There weren't really assigned roles either. But generally speaking Goku planned wars, I handled recruiting, we both usually did siege break calls. This left for a lot of people who were trying to find their place in the council. And everyone settled on one role to do that with...everyone attempted to handle diplomacy.

Kimimela- From constantly harping on the Llamas and creating more work for me to handle (big wonder why the group didn't like us right?), to recruiting off of the blacklist, to protecting her friends from the rules, to generally acting as if the rules did not apply to her. I could throw a lot of blame onto this individual. Some notable instances.

- Sending small fliers at a siege on herself
- Trying to call a long siege break on herself...we had just mentioned that day we couldn't long break at that time
- Planning to put wonders within reasonable range of Bedtime Squad
- Keeping Estlando despite him being off of alarm
- Generally being off of alarm (lost 5 towns in 107, this was the maximum amount lost in a single world to even be considered for Bad With Names in the preworld phase)
- Starting spam wars

Generally speaking, Kimi involved herself in situations that would have ended up better if allowed to play themselves out. If you ever had to tell someone to stop trying to be the smartest person in the room, she needs to hear it the most.

Myself- As I have said before, I am not easy to work with and when I take things seriously, I'm very high strung. There wasn't a day that went by that I didn't yell at someone in Bad With Names I don't think. I feel that created some resentment. I also blame myself for leaving and later attacking. The minute I did both of those, I'd suspect that any incentive to hold Bad With Names to a higher standard died and a lot of resentment towards the ideologies I held might have been created. I would say that I let myself down and let everyone else down and there's no way to pass blame on how things got here without pointing out that I did and said things that helped contribute to that, whether in a big or small way. There's no way around it other than saying how I ended things was a dick move...but that doesn't make the above points incorrect either.

Combined all of these definitely left Bad With Names worse off than it started out as. While they beat Bedtime Squad, Bedtime was largely defeated by the time I had left. We did a lot of damage, ND did some damage in the south, and I had gotten a few to jump to damage their wonder odds (which is where about half of Bedtime's conquests came from). If I recall, more continued to leave the world or jump sides after I left as well. As a result, Bad With Names pulled the victory out and even with the decline, they had absolutely deserved the win. Nothing can ever take that achievement away. But that was En107.
Himera: They started out riding high off of the coat tails of En107. Everyone, myself included, expected them to dominate and in the beginning it looked like they would easily. They helped take apart ThePlague, had a lead for most of the world on OCEANS VETERANS, beat up War of Kings, destroyed Spirtum Sancti, and had a lead on The Greeks. All of this was a mere month ago. But still it didn't feel the same. For those that don't know, I was somewhat aware that Bad With Names was having issues. However I couldn't report it because people wanted to stay anonymous. And I couldn't penalize them because they were doing a relatively good job comparatively until the end of February. Even as early as December I had been getting complaints from Bad With Names player(s). Things like their NAP with Spirtum Sancti became scrutinized. There were rumors of the spam war and who started it. A lot of the players that had played well in Heliopolis were now playing like they were past their prime. Here's my take on their weaknesses here.

Leadership- From what I've heard it was a bit of a mess. Xuegou was issuing ultimatums and demanding things be done his way. Kimi might also have been issuing ultimatums never really got specified to me but it was implied similar to Xuegou. Obviously both left, one just handed off and went to the rim. The other went VM and decided to come back. For some reason people who didn't live up to expectations got to stay around and try to be carried to a crown. Again that falls on leadership. I also think that its poor showing for a leader to hand their account off for an LMD account, demand it back later, then last less than a day in their own account.

Diplomacy- Diplomacy always was the Achilles heel of this group. Again, too many people involving themselves in the issue often will lead to a bigger issue. As it turns out bad diplomacy was the dagger in the heart for this group. Losing Balkans when they had already begun to lose momentum in the war against OCEANS VETERANS and never built a ton against the Greeks was something that they couldn't cope with.

Spam- I've already mentioned it in the world chat and in private. Which means Its probably gotten around. My information leads me to believe that Bad With Names started or at least seriously escalated the spam war with OCEANS VETERANS. However, this doesn't appear to be a full on council action. This specifically appears to have been one individual (Kimi) in leadership doing this. But they did offer money to spam OV players.

Recruiting- There's people on that team that have lost multiple cities, a lot of them. A lot of BWN players mentioned simming as a problem as well. They've also gotten to stick around with no issues. A lot of people who did things in En107 ended up not living up to expectations here. Which is fine, burn out happens. What's not fine is keeping them around. Ultimately this led to inroads into their core and didn't allow them to put away enemies.

Overall these factors contributed to the decline and fall of Bad With Names on Himera. Its been a nearly two year long process of decline and a quiet one at that. Whether its the end of Bad With Names entirely is up to Dark, Achilles, and Goku. If they do decide to try it again, the rebuild won't be easy. They'll likely lose out on recruiting battles to teams like Bedtime Squad, OCEANS VETERANS, Balkans, Booty Warriors, Masked Profanity, etc. But I'll give my advice on how to rebuild the team.

1) Defined Leadership- Everyone should have an actual purpose and there should be one guy that's thee guy. The leaders should be able and willing to lead. I suspect possibly some burn out played a factor here.

2) Selective Recruiting- Like I said, they'll lose out on a lot of good players and big names anyways. They'll need to rely on alarmed players and get the most out of them. This will be important to future successes.

3) Easy World- Himera looked easy in its early days. But a lot of groups exceeded the original expectations for them. En113 proved to a great rebuilding world for Bedtime Squad (House of Pain) and for myself when restarting The Booty Warrior Cult. Bad With Names needs a world to effectively reload on. They should finish this world off to figure out exactly what they have and then move on.

That's all I got from my end for now. I definitely missed some details. I'm probably wrong on a point or two. But that's my perspective from it. This isn't meant to gloat or make fun of BWN for their failings. But maybe they could use it as a guide line for a rebuild in another world. Or others could use it to avoid the mistakes made here.


Mostly correct, definitely a few points incorrect in there like the spam and a bit harsh on the leaders issuing ultimatums and etc.. Also we never had any pact or NAP with anyone except for Balkans???

I believe the two largest factors are that a lot of the leaders are better players, and suck at making *good* decisions as well as listening to tried and tested advice and feedback from some of their vets, and the spam. The spam was the #1 factor in the death, as the many who were on the border of simming (the ones who had to be persuaded to come back to the game mostly) were driven to VM or driven to pure sim city by this.

I can say that from what I've gathered, I seriously doubt anybody actually tried to pay anyone to spam OV on our end, but we do know for a fact that OV may have done just that, or they CERTAINLY took advantage of the players who were being spammed out of the game... All very fishy on their part.

In any case, these are still the two largest contributing factors.

That being said, I do believe you are correct on the difficulty of a BWN comeback, as many have said this is absolutely their last world. Still, it is not fair to line up a lot of those other teams as better recruiters per se, as many of those teams have lost tons of core players over the years as well and are mostly unrecognizable from their original rosters.
The spam and payment is correct though I don't think I can reveal much more than that. Most I can say is that I've seen some of that story for myself and based on some things that happened on 107, I can say its genuine. I'm not really able to show my proof on this, so I get if nobody believes me.

The ultimatums were more or less how it was explained to me. Mainly do this or I'll quit sort of things. Based on how Xuegou just up and returned from VM at the worst time, I think there might be a bit of credibility there. However I'd love any details on what exactly happened.

I assumed you guys had an NAP. Someone brought up how O44 expansion was limited for a long time.

I think its pretty fair to compare them. Take Bedtime Squad, in Heliopolis we assembled a better team and won most the recruiting battles against them. Really we only lost Capable, Unuminium, and I think maybe Wilsh & Patch? En107 was also a massive crash and burn for Bedtime Squad that they rebuilt from over two worlds. Attrition always happens to teams. But the good ones keep finding ways to get solid players and keep going. My point was that it'll be harder for Bad With Names to convince someone who is on the fence to join them over other proven groups as of right now.


If you’re telling the truth then the leaders lied straight to my face as well as to every single member on our team. I sincerely hope your info is bad, as some of your other info is.

I don’t know exactly why Xuegou quit, but towards the end there may have been some ultimatums for sure. At the beginning though, the leaders worked well together.... just maybe didn’t make the best decisions together.

We created a “box” for a few months where we could only conquer like one island into 44, because for WW in 45 we were making terrible progress turning the ocean blue - too many were going for the softies in 44.

Lmao all fishing tactics on the offering money for spam. I did the same thing trying to find out who was spamming us every couple of minutes for 8-16 hours a day straight. Anyone with a brain would do the same, and unless you can show me that money changed hands... I’m chalking it straight up to that.

Fixed Rates

Lmao all fishing tactics on the offering money for spam. I did the same thing trying to find out who was spamming us every couple of minutes for 8-16 hours a day straight. Anyone with a brain would do the same, and unless you can show me that money changed hands... I’m chalking it straight up to that.
Lmao. What would you like? A Paypal screenshot or something?
I don’t think Dark, Achilles, Dys, or Goku knew. I kid you not when I say that Kimi had a HUGE habit of doing stuff like this on her own. In 107 she started a spam war or two with individuals as well. On top of once offered an enemy alliance a pact just because they were fighting Llamas...without talking to any of us. The other alliance was in an enemy coalition. And as it turned out, BWN didn’t need help. A lot things she did were closer to her own interest than a team interest.

I really wouldn’t put it past her to offer money and then claim it as fishing. Even though that strategy makes no real sense. Since even if someone was taking bribes, they could just make a new set of accounts and start again.

We’re talking about someone that tries way too hard to be the smartest person in the room when simple solutions often do.


I don’t think Dark, Achilles, Dys, or Goku knew
They didn't.
(lost 5 towns in 107, this was the maximum amount lost in a single world to even be considered for Bad With Names in the preworld phase)
Excuse me I was in the premade and I lose a ton of cities every world
I actually was invited by multiple people without knowing it was the same bloody premade, turned people down and ended up in the same alliance anyways lol
So that rule was ignored by a lot of people :)
They didn't.

Excuse me I was in the premade and I lose a ton of cities every world
I actually was invited by multiple people without knowing it was the same bloody premade, turned people down and ended up in the same alliance anyways lol
So that rule was ignored by a lot of people :)
Yeah there’s a difference here. While you are good for minimum two absolute inexplicably bad events every world. You take down so many red flags that it ends up not mattering.

5 cities for a guy that jumps once enemy cores and makes calculated risks is way different from 5 cities lost to a random rim alliance or Bears players.


Sooooo fall of bwn? until Xuegue was here we were ok with BWN and had zero intentions towards them, when distopia and some more ungreatefull kids came by who decided to "demand" certain things, **** went south. Point is they recruited majorx and thomas and that was the only reson war started they stood their ground, but what happened is BWN is gone and tomas and mojor handed their citites to us.

So distopia and other no brain kids tell them what u did to ur own alliance, ur an disgrace for any1 who played with you.

Any other lie any1 tells u is wrong,