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I moved the discussion from the top 12 thread here, so we can stay on-topic in both threads
Now Enas... you just can't be that easy. So let's analyze your "simple terms":
- SI did not start the war, but Juggs did as the mass-mail sent by Arjaa shows. Of course, SI had the intention to start a preemptive war on Juggs based on the too many transgressions and because of too many info we had that Juggs were preparing to attack SI. But in the end Juggs started to attack SI based on some intel they got from a spy. If what Juggs did was honorable, it would have been equally honorable for SI to do the same. Fact is that not SI, but Juggs started to attack and initiated the war. The rest, indeed, is only a matter of interpretation;
- DI, being pacted with both Juggs and SI choose to stay neutral in this war. We both agree on this one, it is an undisputed fact.
- Juggs approached PL for a pact and got it. Another undisputed fact. As part of this deal, and here we are indeed talking about an interpretation shared both by DI and SI, Juggs dropped the pact with DI, preparing to attack them in 48 hours. In our view, Juggs sold DI to Poles. But as I stated, this is only our view and quite frankly an interpretation, not an undisputed fact.
- The Juggs did drop the pact with DI, another undisputed fact. Same day though, Juggs recruited some Vanguard players that were under attack by DI. According to any interpretation, these were refugees from DI, hence by Grepolis tradition they were legitimate targets for 48 hours. But Juggs choose to use this as a pretext for war. Fact is that DI attacked only those Vanguard refugees and for less than 48 hours, hence their attacks on them was not an act of war on Juggs by Grepolis tradition. It was an act of war only because Juggs wanted to see it such... Of course, one could think that Juggs recruited those Vanguard players knowing they are under attack by DI exactly because they wanted a reason to declare war on DI... but hey, some people are just mean, you know...
- PL did hit DI hard and SI offered as much assistance as it could. I already stated that one can only help those that can help themselves. SI sent defense only when and if there was enough intel about the status of the revolted cities. Now it is very interesting that you are accusing SI for not supporting DI with enough defense but you find it quite honorable that Juggs ended the pact with DI because DI was not supporting Juggs with defense against SI, though Juggs very well know that DI was in no position to support anyone because their war with PL. At least SI is trying to support its ally. Juggs preferred to cancel its pact and to attack its former ally. A matter of interpretation, of course
- now this one is really funny. Check the islands in north 55 and you will find lots of Juggs newly formed colonies stacked with defense. So in your opinion this is an admirable tactic for the Juggs but it sucks if SI is using it... lol, quite unbiased you are indeed.
- SI did not abandon DI. Their leaders know very well what SI can do for them and now it's only a matter of option what they will chose to do.
So Enas, I am going to say this: you were not attacked first, you were not abandoned rather you chose to play the victim and DI did not deserve to be attacked by you. Of course, being a war game this is completely acceptable but you are trying to claim it's absolutely honorable too. Well, it is not.
PS: I am no short on any dollar. I did take my target in the last operation so you are quite mistaken here. Of course, my target ghosted before my CS got there. Hmmm.... I wonder why he did it cause I see he didn't quit for good. He is still member of your sister alliance and he built his new city to over 1k points... There are two explanations possible here but this is an entirely different story. Fact is that I took the city I was after so I am not short on anything. The rest is again only a matter of interpretation...
Cheers Enas
. Also, you are telling me DI was attacking you and the others that came from Vanguard on 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th or 11th of January? Hmmm....
^ that was a city gift. Phantom wanted to get rid of the city.
Damage Hadn't attacked any of them until 2-3 days ago.
Alot of blah blah about one thing: War raged between SI (et all) vs Juggs I do not care who started what the fact remains the war happenedNow Enas... you just can't be that easy. So let's analyze your "simple terms":
- SI did not start the war, but Juggs did as the mass-mail sent by Arjaa shows. Of course, SI had the intention to start a preemptive war on Juggs based on the too many transgressions and because of too many info we had that Juggs were preparing to attack SI. But in the end Juggs started to attack SI based on some intel they got from a spy. If what Juggs did was honorable, it would have been equally honorable for SI to do the same. Fact is that not SI, but Juggs started to attack and initiated the war. The rest, indeed, is only a matter of interpretation;
Again same thing I stated... they stayed out of it (again a lot of blah blah)- DI, being pacted with both Juggs and SI choose to stay neutral in this war. We both agree on this one, it is an undisputed fact.
You can not twist this in any way. I stated it as plainly as possible: we have a pact with PL. PL is at war with DI. DI will not support Juggs vs SI. DI and Juggs have 0 (I repeat 0 common ground) people have to be THICK not to get this concept.- Juggs approached PL for a pact and got it. Another undisputed fact. As part of this deal, and here we are indeed talking about an interpretation shared both by DI and SI, Juggs dropped the pact with DI, preparing to attack them in 48 hours. In our view, Juggs sold DI to Poles. But as I stated, this is only our view and quite frankly an interpretation, not an undisputed fact.
Very very false. Those from Vanguard came to Juggs as was stated 5 days prior to the ending of the pact. The start of our conflict happened AGAIN the way I stated it. DI revolted 1 city. (AA was asked if they were starting the war. AA responds to me exactly like this: Let it be, this is probably a mistake. BAM 2 other cities get revolted after many many attacks. (FIRST blood was from DI)- The Juggs did drop the pact with DI, another undisputed fact. Same day though, Juggs recruited some Vanguard players that were under attack by DI. According to any interpretation, these were refugees from DI, hence by Grepolis tradition they were legitimate targets for 48 hours. But Juggs choose to use this as a pretext for war. Fact is that DI attacked only those Vanguard refugees and for less than 48 hours, hence their attacks on them was not an act of war on Juggs by Grepolis tradition. It was an act of war only because Juggs wanted to see it such... Of course, one could think that Juggs recruited those Vanguard players knowing they are under attack by DI exactly because they wanted a reason to declare war on DI... but hey, some people are just mean, you know...
Must be nice to alter events to fir your way. The truth is during the whole PL vs DI OP, SI D went up VERY VERY little. Those must have been the wimpiest biremes known to man.- PL did hit DI hard and SI offered as much assistance as it could. I already stated that one can only help those that can help themselves. SI sent defense only when and if there was enough intel about the status of the revolted cities. Now it is very interesting that you are accusing SI for not supporting DI with enough defense but you find it quite honorable that Juggs ended the pact with DI because DI was not supporting Juggs with defense against SI, though Juggs very well know that DI was in no position to support anyone because their war with PL. At least SI is trying to support its ally. Juggs preferred to cancel its pact and to attack its former ally. A matter of interpretation, of course
There has been no call to mass defend ANY colonized cities. If this has happened it strictly of the own users defense. If you attack we will defend any city that flies the Juggs banner or any of our pacted allies banner. For that be certain.- now this one is really funny. Check the islands in north 55 and you will find lots of Juggs newly formed colonies stacked with defense. So in your opinion this is an admirable tactic for the Juggs but it sucks if SI is using it... lol, quite unbiased you are indeed.
<<<< Huh DI leadership must be lacking because none of this seems to have trickled down to the masses... that or hot air is just escaping your lips (seems to me to be the latter)- SI did not abandon DI. Their leaders know very well what SI can do for them and now it's only a matter of option what they will chose to do.
<<< wrong again! We WERE attacked first. Look whomever feels they are being bent over a chair feels the other is not being honorable. The thing is we did not do the bending. When DI choose SI they made a grave grave mistake. Had it been hindsight 20/20 they would have sided with us in stead of trying to be the Swiss.So Enas, I am going to say this: you were not attacked first, you were not abandoned rather you chose to play the victim and DI did not deserve to be attacked by you. Of course, being a war game this is completely acceptable but you are trying to claim it's absolutely honorable too. Well, it is not.
You took a ghost... here *golfclap* you want some more? *golfclap* You are now officially my Hero! :heh:PS: I am no short on any dollar. I did take my target in the last operation so you are quite mistaken here. Of course, my target ghosted before my CS got there. Hmmm.... I wonder why he did it cause I see he didn't quit for good. He is still member of your sister alliance and he built his new city to over 1k points... There are two explanations possible here but this is an entirely different story. Fact is that I took the city I was after so I am not short on anything. The rest is again only a matter of interpretation...
Cheers Enas
You seem to have some incorrect information robbyn in regards to the refugees that came over from the vanguard (I was one of these apparent refugees). As far as I can tell these are the four members who joined Juggs from the Vanguard:
schupbach25 Joined 2013-01-05 19:42:16 52,605
millit Joined 2013-01-05 11:42:10 71,245
XXPhantomX Joined 2013-01-05 05:42:22 30,585
Omnia mors aequat Joined 2013-01-05 05:42:22 113,884
As you can see we all joined on the 5th of January. The MM about the pact dissolving came on the 10th of January. It should also be noted that none of us were under attack from DI while we were in the Vanguard (I would know as I was a leader).
Well, it wasn't me the one claiming DI attacked them. Elinas was and I am quoting: "-Some Vanguard players join Jugg. DI lays waste to these JUGG cities 3 of them to be exact (asked AA if this was an act of war off the first revolt, he said let it be it was probably a mistake... then 2 more revolts are lit up after MANY MANY attacks) <<<< this gentleman is first blood this IS an ACT of WAR!"
Now according to your post Arjaa, DI started to attack these guys 2-3 days ago, meaning the 15th of January the earliest. If you'll check grepostats you will see that Juggs started to take cities from DI on the 14th of January, early in the morning. Meaning the revolt attacks were sent in the evening of the 13th of January. Again, according to your own post, DI started to counter-attack on the 15th of January the earliest. So how was DI the one declaring war? All this discussion was started because you accused DI of declaring war on Juggs. I only stated that this was not so and the facts and your own posts show I was right.
And just for the sake of facts, check the bellow link. It clearly shows Juggs started to attack DI on the 13th of January.
http://www.grepostats.com/world/en54/alliance/58/colonizations?type=lose&enemy_alliance=7&min_points=&max_points=
You see how cold hard facts are being ignored. He says that we took a city on the 13th. The Mass Mail (MM) came out on the 10th.
To Robbyn... dude stop! You are making yourself out to be a Hypocrite along with being a liar (maybe imbecile if you actually believe the dribble you are writing).
Tend to your flock now. For it is not just DI you have abandoned, but also TSC and Celeritas. Because no amount of the talky talky will turn back the hands of time. You have made your bed time to lay down and sleep in it. Funny that it is made out of pine....
Wow dude, you got half a brain and less... they laid waste to three of his cities on Jan 12th. Not when he was invited lol.. Damage was pacted with Vangaurd when I took those players and I had talked to damage before and after taking the players.
Go bury your head in the sand and keep giving us BP.. that's all you are good at.
Lol Enas... except a lot of mumbo jumbo hate talk about me being a hypocrite and an imbecile (lol, coming from the lights of you this is actually a compliment cause it seems you always say the opposite of the truth), you failed to produce any prove that I said anything but the truth. You said DI was attacking those Vanguard that joined Juggs right after Juggs cancelled the pact, meaning the 10th of January but Arjaa said they were attacked on the 15th of January the earliest. And really, did I say Juggs took a city from DI on the 13th of January? Ermm... not. I said they started to attack DI in the evening of the 13th of January because grepostats shows the first Jugg takeover from DI on the 14th of January, early in the morning. And you know, you can take a city only 12 hours after you revolted it... Just do a bit of math if it isn't too hard for you.
PS: At least I took it, while you blatantly failed to take one of your own guys that ghosted... lol. You mighty hero, you...
Hahaha Arjaa... why won't you first agree with Enas what lies you should post here? Enas specifically wrote that DI was attacking those Vanguard that joined Juggs. Now you are claiming they were attacking someone else? Lol.... get your facts straight cause even if it seems to be your second nature, you are not good even at lying.
Get your facts straight robbyn. The vanguard and DI had a NAP when we joined that is the truth.
P.S. this is what you will respond with I'm contradicting enas but this is the truth
Yep, it is fact that we- Damage Inc. , were sold by Juggs to Pl.
Is anyone surprised?
It is war game, what matters to most is winning, things like honour, loyalty and such are nothing..they do not bring victory.
I would not call this world balanced at the moment, but this makes it good challenge.
I am not disputing this. I only disputed what Enas wrote and indeed, you are contradicting him.
@ Enas... Of course I talked to DI first. You claimed they declared war on you and attacked you, they claim they did not. I have much better reasons to believe them than you cause they actually produced some evidence, while you came with some poor excuses that proved to be false. The rest of your post is nothing but more excuses and a lame attempt to divert the discussion from its subject. Now, continue with the insults... you seem to be quite good at this