The Rise and Decline of the Riot in Ithaca

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The Rise and Decline of the Riot in Ithaca

I was reading back on some of the recent threads in Ithaca and had to laugh-- still talking about Riot after all this time? For an alliance nobody seems to want to give credit to, I think we must have made quite an impression! :p Although they say victors write the history, I figure I can add this to the cannon that seems to part of the discussion (or was). This may seem like a wall of text at first; and it is. It has taken me this long to tell the story because it's a long story to tell; and for the curious only. ;)

I figure I may as well add to this story of Ithaca: After a long talk with petrika.Grosi it seems I didn't know the entire story even as it played out! This is a bit delayed, but I didn't have time to write out the events as they happened; in fact my lack of time to put to this server at that crucial stage was largely part of the collapse of Riot.

Riot crashed hard in the first couple weeks of April-- I am certainly to blame for this, although I think I'm also to blame for the fact that until April we had the second highest member average (in points), the second highest abp count, and when we coordinated conquests, we had excellent timing! Ask former members, I think they can and will confirm this. There were quite a lot of new players to grepolis that I turned into monsters with a little guidance. I got a little soft towards the end when I started feeling guilty about my kick and eat strategy with players that couldn't keep up to my activity standards, because I was watching too much Doctor Who at the time and felt bad about playing at "God" where I had the power to determine if a player could live in Ithaca or get eaten alive by former teammates for not keeping up. This softness made me lax on recruitment standards toward the end. With that said, my only regret is that I never completely figured out the most efficient way to run alliance squads, particularly because there was so little initiative among players to run them. This is my story:

I originally came to Ithaca because Gerrard13100, ray93 and I were screwing around on the rim of Delphi and gerrard suddenly decided that he wanted to found an alliance. We had high expectations (not)
but we came anyway. We quickly discovered that gerrard couldn't lead an alliance for beans,
so we tried to talk him into running operations, which he proved equally inept at:

And I only wish I had saved the screenshots I took of his Mass Mails for those first few conquests... I will only say that I feel mass mails are unnecessary for getting spy reports when you are pursuing a 2k city. I had a few days that could have been a scene from Mutiny on the Bounty-- How long do we put up with this? Do we wait until the storm to relieve Gerrard of command? After watching the end of that movie several times I decided I needed to act.

Cyprus64 -- your stay in Superium Legacy was the first day after I'd driven Gerrard13100 from power-- he had left a mess, to the point that we had a group of players that had already left the alliance, and one player that was angry enough at gerrard that he rimmed him. My point is that Superium Legacy was an awful alliance, to the point that I used my founder rights (when I finally got them) to disband it. I sent out a MM to the former members of SL, where I explained my actions and told them I was founding a new alliance for a fresh start. As many things as I corrected, I still inherited a few flawed players, spies etc that had slipped through gerrard's lax recruitment standards. A friend told me I had a "bad hand," but I didn't believe him and decided to play my hand as best I could.

Some Background on Riot------
Riot's location in o45, which filled last (as all the new servers seem to do) placed me in a position where Riot would need to expand into another core ocean once we'd finished expansion in o45. Given that the other two top alliances (Ile Basilike in o44 and DeB in o55) bordered us, we had limited options and accepted pacts early on with both alliances. Ile Basilike approached us with the intent to cooperate whereas DeB never gave us more than a chill reception. Riot's pact with Deb, which was more-or-less negotiated by gerrard and olddragon and inherited from SL. My assumption from the outset was that it was a NAP until we squared off later when easy targets where morale didn't kill us dried up.

Riot's only other pact was with Spectre, which gave us the unusual offer of being a mercenary alliance-- offering defensive support in exchange for dbp. As it would later turn out, I overestimated the activity of that alliance and the amount of support they would provide Riot. I figure I learn a little bit every day in this game-- and that is an important lesson that I will not repeat.

When Dux Vox offered to merge Ile Basilike to Riot, it seemed as though Riot's expansion problem was solved-- and with that merge, Riot inherited a claim on Ocean 44 and a war with Alliance of Taurus, which was a top 12 alliance at the time run by Petrika.Grosi. I also came to realize that we inherited a few player spies that were working for AoT and As Athens Burns. We started a war with Republica in o54 and pulled a lot of cities off that alliance. We lost two cities in total during this time to enemy alliances, and in both cases the cities were isolated and the players never asked for help. Nodcrush even approached me asking to fight together in a war against DeB long before we'd decided to do so, although I knew that a coalition with AAB meant that Riot would do 80% of the fighting even if AAB participated; so why even bother?
Petrika.Grosi later confirmed that Deus ex and AAB had been actively coordinating a coalition with AoT against Riot for quite some time.

Of course, the actual decision with who to go to war with was asked for quite some time. There was always the question of Deus which came up in the skype council meetings:
[3/23/12 9:47:58 PM] Downy: hey
[3/23/12 10:00:26 PM] Downy: r we still gunna war dues?
[3/24/12 1:44:26 AM] Nick- Ituralde: who is here?
[3/24/12 1:45:12 AM] CnoteG: I am here
[3/24/12 1:45:36 AM] Nick- Ituralde: I've been off skype for a few hours; had to get some work done
[3/24/12 1:46:03 AM] Nick- Ituralde: So now we've got squads, we're gearing up for war, and we just need to decide on our course of action and pursue it steadfastedly
[3/24/12 1:46:27 AM] Nick- Ituralde: *not sure if steadfastedly is a word :p
[3/24/12 1:47:14 AM] CnoteG: who are we going to war with first? Republika?
[3/24/12 1:48:41 AM] Nick- Ituralde: That's what I wanted to ask this council about. And I want to wait on a decision until we've had more than just 2 people for this alliance. I want to give people at least 24 hours notice whatever we do.
Originally we talked about deus on March 29, then decided it might be a good idea to go after Republica first until we can clear out a couple spies in our alliance. Also republica is easy to beat up for a few days, get some cities and prime territory in O54
[3/24/12 1:48:54 AM] Nick- Ituralde: If we're going to go after Republica, I'd like to have a list of priority targets from that alliance
There wasn't any malicious intent... we needed room to expand and were considering our options. However, Dux Vox wanted to fight Deus ex Birema.
[3/24/12 2:18:57 AM] Vox: theres no full war with republica
[3/24/12 2:19:01 AM] Vox: u havent fought them
[3/24/12 2:19:11 AM] Vox: u dont understand quit how badly incompitent they are
[3/24/12 2:19:13 AM] Nick- Ituralde: Welcome back mate. Would you say we're just taking cities from them?
[3/24/12 2:19:14 AM] Nick- Ituralde: :D
[3/24/12 2:19:21 AM] Nick- Ituralde: kk, works for me
[3/24/12 2:19:25 AM] Vox: i could cap a string of undefended towns straight across the ocean alone
[3/24/12 2:19:26 AM] Nick- Ituralde: I am slightly out of touch with that ocean
[3/24/12 2:19:31 AM] Vox: and they wouldnt have a clue what to do about it
[3/24/12 2:19:40 AM] Vox: yesterday a republica guy
[3/24/12 2:19:41 AM] Nick- Ituralde: Would you be able to put up a list or Republica towns that would be good targets for the squads?

[3/24/12 11:55:11 AM] Downy: i meant is war the plan :D
[3/24/12 2:53:56 PM] Nick- Ituralde: I wanted to ask you all the plan too
[3/24/12 2:54:26 PM] Lord Leif: KK what up
[3/24/12 2:55:16 PM] Nick- Ituralde: I've got gokilla on the line
[3/24/12 2:55:31 PM] Nick- Ituralde: 1. Do we mark republica as targets or just slowly keep expanding in o54?
[3/24/12 2:55:48 PM] Nick- Ituralde: 2. Do we declare war on deus, or wait longer for it (until the 29th or later)?
[3/24/12 2:56:02 PM] Lord Leif: Wait longer on Dues
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This is where Vox started creating a map, which in retrospect was highly suspect--he was logging in troops of Riot cities:

[3/25/12 9:56:07 PM] Downy: vox u are good with maps yes?
[3/25/12 9:56:11 PM] Vox: yeah
[3/25/12 9:56:18 PM] Vox: u select the area
[3/25/12 9:56:25 PM] Downy: can you see who should be in what squad for me
[3/25/12 9:56:27 PM] Vox: u give tasks
[3/25/12 9:56:34 PM] Downy: and ill put ppl in squads
[3/25/12 9:56:48 PM] Vox: u use the squads in a way that they can work together if needed etc
[3/25/12 9:56:56 PM] Downy: yh
[3/25/12 9:57:11 PM] Vox: ^^ thats a bit trick
[3/25/12 9:57:14 PM] Vox: tricky
[3/25/12 9:57:18 PM] Vox: theres 80 members
[3/25/12 9:57:27 PM] Vox: some with sprawling empires
[3/25/12 9:57:38 PM] Vox: and map milits of 10 players at a time
[3/25/12 9:57:44 PM] Vox: with color change
[3/25/12 9:57:49 PM] Vox: limits
[3/25/12 9:58:12 PM] Vox: i assumed the squads already grouped themselves based on proximity?
[3/25/12 9:58:17 PM] Vox: i can show u my squad map
[3/25/12 9:58:32 PM] Downy: yh plz
[3/25/12 9:59:13 PM] Vox:
[3/25/12 9:59:43 PM] Vox: u should also be able to see most of their town types
[3/25/12 9:59:51 PM] Vox: sicne u added u before tot the intel group
[3/25/12 10:00:08 PM] Vox: and for my members registration and update is mandatory by friday
[3/25/12 10:00:16 PM] Vox: i added u*
[3/25/12 10:00:42 PM] Downy: how do u do circles i want to be in groups

Vox eventually convinced us to fight Deus ex birema:
[3/26/12 5:36:22 PM] Vox: ^^ deus is up to something
[3/26/12 5:36:45 PM] Vox: black dragon just caped 3 towns in 54
[3/26/12 5:37:09 PM] Vox: err 2 towns
[3/26/12 5:37:19 PM] Vox: both of them were 5 k point targets for my squad
[3/26/12 5:37:27 PM] Vox: very well defended
[3/26/12 5:37:31 PM] Vox: after wasting a bunch of nukes and silver ^^
[3/26/12 5:37:37 PM] Lord Leif: Dues has benn growing like crazy the past few days
[3/26/12 5:37:41 PM] Vox: they suddenl;y went ghost
[3/26/12 5:37:46 PM] Vox: and became deus moments later
[3/26/12 5:37:47 PM] Vox: ^^
[3/26/12 5:38:10 PM] Vox: just giving up guys a heads up ^^
[3/26/12 5:38:16 PM] Vox: that wasnt accidental imo
[3/26/12 5:38:23 PM] Vox: who has 2 cs's on standby in their town
[3/26/12 5:38:36 PM] Vox: and knows when someone is gonna ghost?
[3/26/12 5:38:44 PM] Lord Leif: I've dropped 10 points in rankings in the last 2 days.... All Deus jumping me...
[3/26/12 5:38:46 PM] Vox: and caps 3 towns on one island
[3/26/12 5:38:47 PM] Vox: ^^
[3/26/12 5:39:08 PM] Lord Leif: 3 on same Island??
[3/26/12 5:39:08 PM] Vox: they made some deal with those guys or something ^^
[3/26/12 5:39:11 PM] Vox: i dunno what it is
[3/26/12 5:39:13 PM] Vox: yeah
[3/26/12 5:39:28 PM] Lord Leif: Why would you want 3 on one Island
[3/26/12 5:39:30 PM] Vox: [island]289812[/island]
[3/26/12 5:39:32 PM] Vox: u dont
[3/26/12 5:39:37 PM] Lord Leif: And I have 2 CS on stby
[3/26/12 5:39:38 PM] Vox: he had a town on the island
[3/26/12 5:39:43 PM] Vox: we were attacking targets there
[3/26/12 5:39:50 PM] Lord Leif: never know when a target falls in your lap
[3/26/12 5:39:53 PM] Lord Leif: lol
[3/26/12 5:39:55 PM] Vox: he was in some sort of communication with them
[3/26/12 5:40:13 PM] Vox: and they aranged to ghost with no troops timed to his cs or something
[3/26/12 5:40:21 PM] Vox: to prevent our cs's from landing
[3/26/12 5:40:22 PM] Lord Leif: He had to have made a deal with them for his cities
[3/26/12 5:40:38 PM] Vox: we had players in revolt cleared etc
[3/26/12 5:40:39 PM] Vox: cs's on the way
[3/26/12 5:40:46 PM] Vox: then they ghost and go deas
[3/26/12 5:40:52 PM] Vox: he now has 3 towns
[3/26/12 5:40:57 PM] Vox: and will trade em internal probably
[3/26/12 5:41:07 PM] Vox: its almost like refugees
[3/26/12 5:41:22 PM] Vox: but instead hiding enemy towns under our nap
[3/26/12 5:41:28 PM] Vox: to denie them to us ^^
[3/26/12 5:41:41 PM] Lord Leif: They are playing dirty
[3/26/12 5:41:50 PM] Lord Leif: We need to go to war
[3/26/12 5:42:14 PM] Lord Leif: but a war will be costly to those of us on the western boarder of 45
[3/26/12 5:42:27 PM] Vox: im not telling you what u should do ^^
[3/26/12 5:42:34 PM] Lord Leif: I know
[3/26/12 5:42:39 PM] Vox: im just notifying u of recent events ^^
[3/26/12 5:42:49 PM] Lord Leif: we will have no choice shortly but to war dues
[3/26/12 5:43:26 PM] Downy: 29th and ill love u guys
[3/26/12 5:44:10 PM] Lord Leif: Need to make sure everyone has good offense and a lot of birs
[3/26/12 5:44:12 PM] Vox: im not gonna be able to support attacks into 45 from my position with all the deus towns that are about to be right by my main base
[3/26/12 5:44:17 PM] Downy: brb

[3/26/12 6:54:05 PM] Downy: kill them ur self :)
[3/26/12 6:54:10 PM] Downy: u needed BP so i sending you it
[3/26/12 6:54:18 PM] Downy: 650 otw
[3/26/12 6:54:29 PM] Downy: 660
[3/26/12 6:56:09 PM] Nick- Ituralde: Thanks mate. ;)
[3/26/12 6:56:33 PM] Nick- Ituralde: Next order of business: What is our plan for deus? Are we still going with March 29?
[3/26/12 6:56:55 PM] Nick- Ituralde: This weekend is going to be really busy for me, but I'm just an administrator, if you all can organize and lead the attacks then we should be great
[3/26/12 6:59:10 PM] Lord Leif: We probably still hit on the 29th... But from what I am hearing Deus is at war with Grim.. Should we pact Grim and go that route?
[3/26/12 6:59:55 PM] Downy: no
[3/26/12 6:59:58 PM] Nick- Ituralde: I don't think so either
[3/26/12 7:00:08 PM] Downy: we must wait 4 u the monday after?
[3/26/12 7:00:09 PM] Downy: thoughts
[3/26/12 7:00:13 PM] Nick- Ituralde: grim doesn't strike me as a worthwhile alliance
[3/26/12 7:00:58 PM] Downy: [report]c6b4e204a1e3113db50a927ad695fdd0[/report]
nice 45 city here
[3/26/12 7:01:04 PM] Nick- Ituralde: I am fine with whatever. If we start on Thursday the 29th you will all have to organize and lead the initial attacks-- I have 2 midterms and a paper due on thursday, and another paper due on the following monday
[3/26/12 7:01:09 PM] Downy: i deleted it :(
[3/26/12 7:01:23 PM] Downy: well weekend?
[3/26/12 7:02:24 PM] Lord Leif: I'm fine with whatever
[3/27/12 6:22:53 PM] Lord Leif: I mean lets face it our area in 54 is getting dry


And the decline:

At this point we'd established that our main issues as an alliance were: not getting enough bp (culture) and our top players were fighting morale as much as anything else. That makes good players quit. Our goals with our next war were to fight players that gave our large members 100% morale, and I personally wanted to find out who from the alliance actually was part of our core; who supported, who was loyal, etc. I didn't need the 80 members we had; but I had no fair way of sorting through them without a fight. The actual survival of Riot was not paramount; I was getting tired of leading and I wanted to find that core of friends that you build a lasting alliance on.

Dux Vox played a large part in convincing us to war DeB. The reasoning was that Deus ex Birema was the best candidate for this due to their proximity to our core. We then wanted to figure out what the best way to end our pact with Deus would be without hurting any feelings or giving up too much tactical advantage. We argued a bit, and eventually agreed that we'd just give Deus ex 24 hours warning or so because we didn't want to backstab:

Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:39 PM
Yes not a deus city..
3/27/12 6:41 PM
You still there?
3/27/12 6:42 PM
What do you all think? Should I move into O 55 to see if it draws a response from dues???
Nick- Ituralde3/27/12 6:42 PM
Before we do that, is this alliance ready for that war?
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:42 PM
I think as an alliance we are..
Nick- Ituralde3/27/12 6:42 PM
We have a solid fight starting in O44 against Alliance of Tartaurus, and a lot of people in O45 who are getting bored in my estimation
Downy 3/27/12 6:44 PM
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:44 PM
Thats why we need a good fight...
Downy 3/27/12 6:44 PM
i wanna hit them 1st makes more sence
Nick- Ituralde 3/27/12 6:45 PM
from a military point of view, it does make more sense to hit them first. My only concern is that if we violate our pact with deus, what will other alliances think in the future when they make pacts with us? I don't want them to think of us as backstabbers
Downy 3/27/12 6:45 PM
um talk to evan
3/27/12 6:45 PM
no secrets
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:45 PM
You have to remember that this game is built for defense.. Defensive units have the advantage
Downy 3/27/12 6:46 PM
just say fancy having a fun fight no spies coalitions 1v1 alliance loosing alliance merges
Nick- Ituralde 3/27/12 6:46 PM
So we tell evan that we're bored and want a good fight? Do we give him advance notice?
Downy 3/27/12 6:46 PM
we set a dates and we kill each other?
Nick- Ituralde 3/27/12 6:46 PM
I rather like that
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:46 PM
So if we draw them into attacking us, it first causes them to break the pact and 2 our birs will kill the majority of their offense
Downy 3/27/12 6:46 PM
no need LL
Nick- Ituralde 3/27/12 6:46 PM
if we just tell them we're bored, we don't have to make them attack us first
3/27/12 6:46 PM
we'd look good and honest
Downy 3/27/12 6:46 PM
because both ways we have ATM are boring
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:47 PM
OK... good point.. we could do that, loosing alliance mergews..
3/27/12 6:47 PM
Nick- Ituralde 3/27/12 6:48 PM
It's rather old fashioned, and we give up the advantage of striking first, but it preserves our reputation and keeps the game interesting
Downy 3/27/12 6:48 PM
3/27/12 6:48 PM
say an day
Nick- Ituralde 3/27/12 6:48 PM
do we offer this as a proposal, or do we just declare that we're going to declare war on deus on March 29 or March 30 and tell him that we've given him advance warning because we like him
3/27/12 6:49 PM
how much warning do we give our allinace? How much warning do we give deus?
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:49 PM
I am fine either way...
3/27/12 6:49 PM
I say we tell them the 29th
Downy 3/27/12 6:49 PM
3rd april?
Nick- Ituralde 3/27/12 6:49 PM
29th or 30th is fine for me
Downy 3/27/12 6:49 PM
tell them on the 1st
3/27/12 6:49 PM
3rd so we all are rebuilt
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:49 PM
Ok either way...
Nick- Ituralde 3/27/12 6:50 PM
kk. Those dates are fine with me
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:50 PM
But seeing as we are telling deus, we might as well post it so that everyone can plan.. Spy's don't matter then..
Downy 3/27/12 6:51 PM
yes they will
3/27/12 6:51 PM
pre stacking citys
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:51 PM
That will make this a lot more fun now anyway and lets face it, we are all hurting for BP
Downy 3/27/12 6:51 PM
Lord Leif 3/27/12 6:52 PM
Dave, we are going to tell Deus then they will pre stack anyway... As we will too

Dux Vox, being the person that he is, then took this information directly to DeB leadership and told them of the impending Riot attack; the information shared was intentionally taken out of context. Thanks to the help of a friend I was able to trace the leak back to Vox, who reset his account on Ithaca.

After several hours I had located the leak and, exhausted, I went to bed after a long day of damage control making sure the alliance members still had faith in the alliance. I woke up to a PnP downy had made, announcing the impending war with DeB before we had taken the time to announce the war to the alliance. I had been working with Deus ex to sort out any misunderstandings and that PnP (in my opinion) sealed the nail on Riot's coffin before the war even started. Most alliance members I would have kicked on the spot, but downy is like my kid-brother and a game isn't worth losing good friends over.

That PnP made my ability to negotiate with other alliances impossible and my fellow Riot leadership discovered that all the Ile Basilike players we'd picked up didn't even want to fight with Deus ex, which of course made starting a successful war impossible. This was a rule that I learned long ago, and still fell into, although I'd like to think that from the point that Vox sold out Riot, I lost control of the flow of events.

A better diplomat would have kept us out of a war like that, but I'm a fighter not a lover and the best I could do with what I had was to delay the war. I explained the war was not out of 'evil' motivations but rather the best solution we had to our problems. My naive self thought I had extracted an honest answer out of Gokilla, but it seems I was swimming with sharks and dishonesty is part of the trade. That is why I find it hilarious and ironic every time the sharks are surprised when it is their turn to get eaten.

The next day Gokilla send out a MM informing Riot members that war was imminent regardless of the previous day's negociations. We also discovered that Deus ex birema was in a coalition with AoT, Republica, Brotherhood of Republica, Grimm Sleepers and As Athens Burns. Clearly my definition of a war for BP/ 100% morale etc and their definition of the same war were very different.

To make matters worse, Vox had given his map of Riot cities to Deus ex Birema along with our skype conversations; this meant that Deus ex began the war with intelligence about what we had and where.

To put this in context with my life, that week was the first week of April, and the week where I had 2 midterms and 2 academic papers due. Needless to say, I wasn't in a position to lead the alliance and asked my leadership to take over. They were, needless to say, under-equipped to the task, and in my absence (I passed my midterms! lol) most Riot members lost confidence in the alliance.

April 1 also marked the 1 month anniversary of me founding Riot, and I realized that I had literally spent 60% of the hours in the month online and I'd been neglecting my life outside grepo. Needless to say, spring weather gave me spring fever, and there was no way I was coming back to an internet game that I could play anytime, when the weather was that beautiful. :p

I logged on to send out a few last messages, although I am sure I missed a few important people.

And with that the last diehard members of Riot left for other alliances and Corinthian II and I are the last that remain.

Cool story bro, right? As I post this I realize a lot of players felt let down by the way the Riot/Deus war was conducted. It was the first time an alliance of mine had truly and spectacularly lost a war, and it was the first time I was truly fed up and burned out from leading players that didn't care a fig about my alliance. It was the first time that I didn't finish a war I started. It was the first time I truly attempted to make a decent alliance and failed.

Well a lot of former Riot players survived, and the territory which Riot occupied now seems to be split by ReVoLuTioN, Deus ex Birema, New Model Army, and Grimm Sleepers. I am happy to have fueled the expansion of players like Lord Leif and CHCAGO (although I have never met you CHCAGO, I am sure you are a human being just like Lord Leif and benefitted from the war) and my job as an alliance leader was to provide for the players on this server that really cared anyhow, regardless of whether they were in my alliance or not.

I wish Ithaca a belated Adieu, and if you've bothered to read this wall of text you can now pat yourself on the back. ;)

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Riot was a good alliance, I just think we underestimated Deus (I was 1 of the ones that voted to war with Deus)


If you look at the dates - you started talking about war with DeB months before your conversation with AoT. Dux fed us intelligence that you later confirmed was accurate. The NAP would have kept for much longer but when you were considering war and we had multiple sources confirming this we acted.

You know I respect there is two points of view We sought no aggression against your alliance until after you started talking about war with us. Then I was on the front lines gathering intelligence form multiple sources and ensuring that every alliance I could would be supporting us. Ironically only 3 alliances actually offered us support after all of that; AAB, AoT, and GS. GS gave us some biremes, AAB offered mainly defensive support as well; AoT did their own thing I am assuming hitting you on another front.

There is also reasons you got the cold shoulder from Deus when you tried to talk to us. I have plenty of evidence on hand as to why that occurred to. For the longest time we talked about a shared forum and operations but things changed.

I just wanted to point out that the dates of the counsel conversations were in March and the Message with Pet from AoT was in May. We always took precautionary measures in intelligence and diplomacy; nothing happened though until we knew a war date. For over a month and a half we heard that you were talking about war from various sources. When we had a date thanks to both downy and dux, we acted. Even had those leaks not occurred gokill, cyprus, xdhj, and others were always working with us to be prepared for a battle where we would regularly have 50 or more incoming attacks.

There is also much more to this story. I will give it to you that you took a disaster and made it into something that shaped Itacha and congratulations to that. My disputes are in how ideal you make things sound. There was wrong on both sides and ultimately a war was inevitable. Yet, there was a reason everything happened the way it did and why our relationship went sour. I am not blaming you; but I am just pointing out many facts are also missing. If anyone would like to know our point of view of why things happened please PM me. I kept all the intelligence. Though I really believe this was not the point, and I agree you created an empire with a lasting impact.

Congratulations. You did achieve quite the milestone with Riot and its a chapter in Itacha that will never be forgotten.


Oh yea i was gonna post here when you put the text wall up Ituralde :p Even though i never played Ithaca i knew what was going on and i think there are quite a few people the same.


I mean that Riot is a well known allaince it will not be forgotten. Your alliances are not like spyder's Ituralde :)


It was definitely a chapter in Ithaca and is still discussed among members today; Most alliances that have fallen have been forgotten. Minus AoT but thats a whole different story.


RIP Riot :)

AoT maybe forgotten but I doubt many could forget Petrika :p


I never really like to talk about riot because I felt betrayed by the leadership. I was in awe about how fast members abandoned ship I never seen such a fast decline of a big alliance..I stayed almost to the end but we were getting picked off one by one...I joined spectre and they did the same jumped ship. I guess I should have joined deus when I had the chance. instead I quit for and new beginning in the slower than molasses marathon world.. rough side of town alliance. :cool:


Ironically, Riot came up in another world (Marathon) - and I was not the one to bring it up.


Wow Nick, I see this really bugs you to this day. The story although even longer than what you posted could have been more easily summed up by this. Your time as a leader was doomed from the beginning as you started Riot already behind the 8ball when you adopted Ger.'s alliance. I like the guy, have, and will again follow him if he starts an alliance in a new world as they always start out fun, but they never last long as he tends not to either. The reason's his alliances fall apart are a whole different thread though. It comes down to what I told you before, you are too nice and trusting in others for this game sometimes. You couldn't save everyone in SL but you tried and then tried to save Isle Basilike as well. Your trust in others and overly friendly personality (for leading in Grepolis) really bit you in the rear when you started trying to make Vox happy.

Riot was doomed without any help from DeB. When you offered me the council job I was aware that the majority of the alliance was already displeased with leadership and that the alliance was on the rocks. I had been informed from several sources that a few people had already turned down the leader position. Knowing what I did I agreed to take it only as long as I was just a minor consultant and would never receive founder rights (so much for that as I asked for them later when it was obvious that you had other things on your mind). My first day on council there was some minor talk of a merge with IB and the next day we were merged and Vox was all over our forums. The guy talked so dang much you had to know he was trouble but you wanted to make him and his new members happy so you let him string you along. All that Vox really did was kick in the dirt on a hole that was already dug.

I tried to take over for you and all that our members wanted to do was question and argue the objectives that I set out for them as I attempted to communicate with other alliances and develop a plan. I kept being asked for a plan and a target by members who wanted to do nothing but complain although when plans with cities and dates/times was laid in front of them they didn't take part. I discovered that SL's previous diplomacy had betrayed all alliances in proximity and that the only players that were truly willing to take part in the op were Dizo, Duplicateboy II, King Zuzu98 along with two other players who slip my mind at the time (Lord Leif's absence from the operation can easily be excused as he was busy losing cities). Players like cappy, wickedburn, and Saber T tiger never did anything for the alliance but complain and confuse/distract leadership with their complaints (along with a few other players who know they would be listed here if it weren't for the fact that I am expected to play nice with them now). I remember before discussions of DeB came up I was openly griping at people on our forums for no teamwork. People would ask me for help and then not be able to coordinate timing for taking their own conquest, just imagine how useless they would be in war (but we don't have to imagine since we have already seen the results) That alliance was mostly garbage players and the only way to weed out the good ones would have been from the beginning to leave SL with only 5-10 well trusted and known members and start building up your alliance the old fashioned way. Again, this is just where your being too nice and wanting to help everyone in SL really hurt you. You made it a personal goal to save SL and that was an impossible task for anyone to accomplish.

I thank you for the lessons I have learned here Nick. As a result of what I have learned from you my leadership skills at starting and leading my own alliance have really taken off. I joined a Ger. lead alliance in Marathon just so that I could pick up the pieces of what he left behind when he left and mold them into something that could survive the test of time. Our alliance has slowly grown from being created late in a core ocean and not even ranking top 70 to rank 23. We would already be top 20 but I have been on VM slowing our growth in the last week. We also have copy cat alliances forming now. This has been achieved by mixing in lessons I have learned from you, some that were things you did right and some were things that I have learned to do the opposite of. If you are proud that your efforts helped to shape Ithaca then you should take pride in knowing that they have also shaped other worlds that you never even played.

Best of luck to you and those Penguins Nick.
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I saw Riot from the outside. My perspective is going to be unique.; I was the lead intelligence and propaganda officer. I will have to agree with him on a couple points. Riot was doomed before you took the helm even if you subtract the DeB factor.

Spectre had plans and about 1/5 to 1/4 of the alliance under its thumb to take off, separate, and start a war with the rest of Riot. They watched from the inside as agreements were made that gave them a serious advantage. That is why they never defended when the war started; they wanted to see Riot fall from the start.

The original SL/IB teams each felt loyal to each other and formed mini-group inside the larger alliance; they were talks about separating and heading their own way but were waiting to act.

AoT had 12 members under its thumb that were supplying a steady stream of intel and doing what they could to thawt attacks.

Even alliances that were further away such as Grimm and AAB had their hands in the piles manipulating a few members; and trying to mislead leadership into their doom to protect their own interest. While we had our hands manipulating this to our advantage for weeks; minus that, they were just waiting for the right time to side with the side that would distract risks.

D.A. had their own spies, and another 4 members under their thumb that were conspiring against the greater good of the empire. Not sure the impact they had.

Then in your own leadership; Dux had plans to rip Riot apart from the inside and take people with him; Ray did as well. The empire was conspiring against itself as to who would end up with the real power at the end. People were selfish and out for their own best interests. They all wanted to save their own rears when the heat got turned on.

Instead of crating an alliance around a few trusted members and slowly eating up the others; I will agree that you tried to please everyone. Your empire ballooned into something that was too large to ignore; but did so without consideration that the more people, the more cities that came; the more corrupt they became.

And then there was me, director of intelligence at the time; who had the job of sorting through all of this and trying to manipulate all the factions to split at the same time in opposite directions so it would be a divided group when the war started. I will not take credit for that happening though; I think it would have happened anyway. For all I know I may have ended up helping Riot more then hurting it. I know one thing; going through all the intelligence and different reports that were streaming in was a tedious and retrospectively unneeded task.
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Though yes, you did create an empire that at its peak; was something that had the attention of the world. It left an impact on Ithaca that will have effects until the end.


Thanks everybody for the feedback. Funny how little I knew at the time; I was and still am quite naive in many ways. And you are correct CnoteG, you never wanted the job and I forced you into it. There were a lot of people that took advantage of my personality and there are many lessons to be taken from this as I continue to analyze the situation. As I said in the beginning of this thread, there were so many factors at play that I wasn't privy too and I continue to learn more and more as I sift through this. I've still got the forum intact and am able (when I have the time) to sift through old threads.

I kept meaning to reply to this thread and was busy every time I thought to do it (and it does require a lot of thought!); then the forum layout changed and I stopped scanning the Ithaca forum. I appreciate the PMs Leneous and CnoteG, they were very polite and informative and for those alone you deserve +rep, wish I could give you more.

It did bother me for a while having put so much time into an alliance that didn't want to exist-- and I think that will be the last time I attempt that approach at alliance building. One of the reasons I play this game is to understand human nature from the perspective that there are no consequences in a game where a virtual profile and your word is all you have. I find it interesting who still has the initiative to talk to me, and who doesn't. I think that also tells me a lot about the character of each person who has replied to this thread.

It's funny the people that I run into too-- Since Ithaca, I have fought with Petrika.Grosi in his alliance on Gythium and briefly shared alliance leadership with Gokillanoob3 on Rhythmnos (although he didn't know who I was, as I was under another account). I've fought alongside the guys from Spectre on the rim of Knossos and beaten Wales Won's alliance on Naxos.

For now I only have time to play in Naxos-- but perhaps in a few weeks a speed 2 or 3 revolt world will open up and I'll join. Grepolis always seems played best with 4-5 close friends, and I'll be looking for a wing-man or two in that next world.


Wow i find this thread very interesting. I joined Ithaca in late April and was not around to ever see Riot. Not that i remember anyway.
It does interest me to see how DeB became the alliance it is today, and this seems to be a big step towards that. Maybe i'm mistaken.

I played no part in all this, but i wanted to add that this is like one of those old war stories of Legend.


RIP Riot :)

AoT maybe forgotten but I doubt many could forget Petrika :p

Yes, well said ;) You will miss me but more cant forget what i done in leading my alliances (ALLIANCE OF TAURUS in some world and 300 BULLS in ithaca and naxos, 1 st place starting from nothing under my leading, for not speaking for Ace of Hearts in Belletron that destroyed Pink Death, or for our spectacolaur sabotations, and heroic battles... Is very intersting to see how the people change and what they are ready to do in this game, like in their real life. But from other part here i find to much good friends. The problem was only that i got banned :( anyway, who like to go against me or with me can join in new world after 4 days in american server of grepolis.
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I wish real life had never caused me to quit, and leave IB to Vox :( I know I am late but had to check in on my old world. I would have never merged IB as I believe we had the ability to handle war with either of the top 2 alliances as all three of us were pretty equal and I had my alliance building their cities MORALE FRIENDLY. Anyways, RL always takes priority as it did then.