To the Memory of the Fallen Warriors

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Kal Gordon

Phrourach
@FutbolTango:

To summarise: people found holes in your propaganda campaign, so you changed the topic and started a long spiel about this "evil empire", which is basically everyone in a large alliance that you don't like.

I'm not going to spend ages analysing and replying to all the jargon and theorising that you have thrown at your keyboard. Perhaps that's what you intended, so that people couldn't reply without you saying "you misinterpreted it and I'm right anyways" but, frankly, it's not worth my time or my effort.

Having said that:
From the perspective of Empire, this is the way things will always be and the way they were always meant to be. In other words, the evil Empire presents its rule not as a transitory moment in the movement of Grepolis history but as a permanent regime
You keep criticising the way that some of the top alliances play the game (except for your precious Thermopylae, who were actually one of the worse-behaved recent examples), and urging players to try new styles. However you keep avoiding the suggestions that you set an example, and instead play as a "lone warrior" (under an alliance name that has a reputation of playing purely to irritate competitive players, often through spam), or continue to play in a large team. As with your fighting-related propaganda, it appears that you are more than willing to talk, but reluctant to follow through and act on what you say.

To make it more explicit. The "Evil Empire" has seats on the council (i.e. Kal Gordon)
  • My place on the Grepolis Player Council actually predates my involvement in Victrix. In fact, most of my game experience is that of fighting against larger and/or stronger opponents. I was only involved in 1 serious Victor attempt before my term in council (en96 Olous).
  • I seriously try to avoid bias. I actually stated in my council application that I hoped to bring a spectrum of different viewpoints into the council. I'm sure that I am a bit biased, but so is everyone, to some extent.
  • You're full of criticism for my presence on the council and my work there, but you generally avoid any response that suggests that you step up and take on that sort of responsibility.

Off the game, the Evil Empire tries to chastise, ridicule, and ostracize, any player who resists or questions the ideology of Evil Empire.
This is actually a perfect description of your own behaviour on the forums in basically every situation I have seen you in. Please, do everyone a favour and give up the hypocrisy: it only reflects badly upon you.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
I hope that you realize the following.
The more that you feel compelled to try to discredit me and refute my points, the more that you are proving and corroborating those points.
If you would know or feel with certainty that the points were baseless or without merit, then you simply would ignore them. You would not have this visceral response on your part.

It is not possible to deny that the "Evil Empire" exists, by this I mean the mega groups of extravagant gold users.
These groups work together and have developed this tendency to engage in large numbers of pacts.
It is not possible to deny that Worlds have often become a simple replica of one and another.
It is not possible to self-destruction of world wonders and other abuses is the norm.

I am trying to make a point, which unfortunately, the agents of the Empire are trying to bury with all these add hominen attacks.

These mega groups that have tentacles everywhere (i.e. the council, the moderators, leaders in several alliances) are forging a self-serving Grepolis culture that is full of myths. Those who oppose or do not share those views are exterminated in the game and off the game.

The Empire itself would not be bad, but it is paradoxically killing the game. By becoming so powerful and normative is discouraging battles, diversity, and the growth of a pluralistic and diverse Grepolis culture.

The company is not unaware of this tendency. They can see it happening. Hence, we have the creation of new worlds for new people and the discontinuity of world wonders, which essentially the Evil Empire doomed for failure.

Having said this, those who rebel against the Empire need to know that our fight is not in vain. We do need acts of resistance. Question at every point the self proclaimed truths and wisdoms promoted by the agents of the Empire. Explore new ways of fighting. Explore new ways of organizing. Resist the tendency to engage in mega pacts. Refuse and oppose those who order you to ghost or not fight.

Invade the core of the Empire. Do not be afraid to fight them. For many of them have been so conditioned that they are willing to sacrifice vast amounts of troops and gold to take small cities. In this fight you are helping Grepolis growth and expand the game itself.

For these fools, do not realize that they need an enemy after all.
Long live the fight against this Victrix Empire as we rather die in our feet that play chained in our knees!
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
I’m through with regret.
If disobedience is my destiny, so be it.

If it’s my mission to break mental paradigms,
let them break. My heart is a red herring.

I reap the future while they sow the past.
My spine is a flagpole usurping all summits.

When I laugh at funerals, I honor the dead.
When I cringe at weddings, I honor the living.

“Obey” they told me, and I disobeyed.
And while they ignored nature, I turned to her and obeyed.

“Bow” they told me, and I flipped the throne a bird.
And while they bleated, I bowed to the sun & moon.

When they said, “It is hot,” I told them it was cold,
and shivered like a new-born baby in my bear robe.

When they said, “It is cold,” I told them it was hot,
and stripped naked in a blizzard just long enough to untie their knots.
 

Raydium88

Phrourach
I will give you one last benefit of the doubt, to comment here...

It is not possible to deny that the "Evil Empire" exists, by this I mean the mega groups of extravagant gold users.
These groups work together and have developed this tendency to engage in large numbers of pacts.
It is not possible to deny that Worlds have often become a simple replica of one and another.
You see, here I'd almost agree. I've been there and fought them over consecutive servers... not very successful I may add. And although, myself and other leaders like MAC, SW, TJ might disagree in some aspects on how to run an alliance, ultimately their hard work is with victory in mind. And when you are playing to win is a whole new game entirely, and they are worth of merit for leading their teams to victory server after server... what they do, it works. Is effective, and to draw top players to your side server after server you must be pretty good at what you do. To deliver consistent results.

I agree perhaps the methods by which could have been toned down. But where you fall short on your argument and the reason why people give you such a hard time, is because you're hypocritical, you DO attack the person albeit with cynical remarks, and you fall short of giving credit where credit is due. Additionally people laugh from your posts because you're trying wayyyy too hard to be a voice of "rebellion", and without actions to back-up your movement. You're effectively making it harder on yourself to draw followers for what you believe is right. Ultimately your method falls short. People don't take you seriously...

Is worsened when you spat ultimately inaccurate and sometimes, even insulting allegations... Which just shows you have 0 understanding of what takes to lead and/or goes behind a leaders' room.

These mega groups that have tentacles everywhere (i.e. the council, the moderators, leaders in several alliances) are forging a self-serving Grepolis culture that is full of myths.
So are you accusing these alliance leaders of having external help? Like corrupt mods? Is what it sounds to me... When you're in a position of power and you've taken your alliance to victory, to me this is quite insulting. Insulting to mods, insulting to alliance leaders, representatives... You talk the talk, but I suggest to you... set yourself an example first. You're not a voice, and you'll never be like that. I challenge you to lead your own alliance to victory under your OWN ideas. Show it can be done... and then you're free to criticize all you want....... Then perhaps some people will take you seriously, and perhaps you may even get some followers. But don't ever accuse anyone of what you're suggesting above without proof. Down right disrespectful.

And lastly, cut all the philosophical/extravagant crap. Honest to gawd, I am all down for a good constructive argument... but the way you present it and yourself just makes me wonder "is this guy for real, trolling or delusional?". It all sounds just... fake. You sound fake. It just doesn't help your case lol.

Right essay over, I've had my bit of fun. Back to the game now.
Ray out.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
Perhaps I am trolling. Perhaps I am delusional. Perhaps I am real. This is for your own psyche to decide.
However, the fact that you are feeling compelled to write should tell you something.

What is the inconsistency in your own map of reality that the post is making you uncomfortable with?

As active players, we do have the right to criticize and make comments on the decisions of leaders and the events of the world.

Your thinking is just one more mental mechanism to curtail dissent and autonomy from the regular players like me.

I have no doubt that Olympic Athletes who engage in stereoid use work hard. I have no doubt that they win medals.
I have no doubt that corrupt government officials work hard in their jobs.
I have no doubt that executives of multinational corporations work hard when exploiting natural resources and producing in gas emissions.
I do not have any doubt that they make profits.

Neither hard work ethic nor the effectiveness of their actions makes them immune to receive criticism for their actions given that they are contrary to the spirit of the game and more importantly the negative effects on the game.

As for your arguments regarding my previous membership to Victrix and other mega alliances, it is simply moot. It is this way because you want to see it this way. I would not know nor I would be writing all these without the experience of being in the inside.
 

StAthanasius

Phrourach
I’m through with regret.
If disobedience is my destiny, so be it.

If it’s my mission to break mental paradigms,
let them break. My heart is a red herring.

I reap the future while they sow the past.
My spine is a flagpole usurping all summits.

When I laugh at funerals, I honor the dead.
When I cringe at weddings, I honor the living.

“Obey” they told me, and I disobeyed.
And while they ignored nature, I turned to her and obeyed.

“Bow” they told me, and I flipped the throne a bird.
And while they bleated, I bowed to the sun & moon.

When they said, “It is hot,” I told them it was cold,
and shivered like a new-born baby in my bear robe.

When they said, “It is cold,” I told them it was hot,
and stripped naked in a blizzard just long enough to untie their knots.
you write good poems brother :) this definitely rivals Silver's ...
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
The more that you feel compelled to try to discredit me and refute my points, the more that you are proving and corroborating those points.
If you would know or feel with certainty that the points were baseless or without merit, then you simply would ignore them. You would not have this visceral response on your part.
That might be a logical argument, if it wasn't for the fact that we aren't trying to refute your points; we're succeeding. The proof of this is that you have to keep changing your angle of attack, rather than admitting that any of your claims are wrong. As for discrediting you, you're doing a fine job of that yourself. Anyone who knows me, knows that I do object to people plastering false accusations and baseless propaganda on these forums.

I am trying to make a point, which unfortunately, the agents of the Empire are trying to bury with all these add hominen attacks.
Given that ad hominem attacks are your modus operandi, and that people generally haven't been making those sort of arguments towards you, I'd label this as yet more hypocrisy.

These mega groups that have tentacles everywhere (i.e. the council, the moderators, leaders in several alliances) are forging a self-serving Grepolis culture that is full of myths. Those who oppose or do not share those views are exterminated in the game and off the game.
As I already explained, my presence on the council has nothing to do with my involvement in Victrix. But you avoided addressing my point about that.
I do hope you're not accusing moderators of being corrupt...
Having friends in other alliances doesn't mean we own them. It can actually be quite fun fighting against friends.

Having said this, those who rebel against the Empire need to know that our fight is not in vain. We do need acts of resistance. Question at every point the self proclaimed truths and wisdoms promoted by the agents of the Empire. Explore new ways of fighting. Explore new ways of organizing. Resist the tendency to engage in mega pacts. Refuse and oppose those who order you to ghost or not fight.
Forgive me for referring to another world, but this is hilarious when put in context with your behaviour on the en94 forums. You posted endless propaganda threads from your position inside the largest alliance, insulting and demeaning everyone else, and saying that whatever your leadership did was right, because it led you to the top. Anyone who disagreed with you was subject to ad hominem attacks, and was told that their opinions didn't matter because they were "inconsequential in the battle for the dominance of this world" (taken from a surviving post on the en94 forums).

As active players, we do have the right to criticize and make comments on the decisions of leaders and the events of the world.
Every player has a write to make comments on anyone else. But if you are going to level false accusations at people, they are perfectly entitled to point out just how wrong you are.

As for your arguments regarding my previous membership to Victrix and other mega alliances, it is simply moot. It is this way because you want to see it this way. I would not know nor I would be writing all these without the experience of being in the inside.
I think it's actually highly-relevant. When you were in a world-dominating alliance, you glorified them, and insulted every smaller alliance, especially those who dared to point out the flaws in your propaganda. Now that you are in a smaller team, fighting against larger alliances, and need help, you glorify the small players, and throw insults and false accusations at the larger alliances, even when the current large alliances are behaving a lot better than the one that you originally glorified. Given some of the points that you have made based on this "insider experience", it seems as though you paid no attention when you were in those alliances.

you write good poems brother
this definitely rivals Silver's ...
Except that he didn't write this. It's part of a poem called "The Disobedience of the Mad Poet", written by Gary Z McGee.
 

Silver Witch

Phrourach
These mega groups that have tentacles everywhere (i.e. the council, the moderators, leaders in several alliances) are forging a self-serving Grepolis culture that is full of myths. Those who oppose or do not share those views are exterminated in the game and off the game.
I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. The more experience you have the better you get so experience of leading a previous alliance is not a bad thing. As for council members and mods having tentacles - whats that supposed to mean? Both those roles just mean the person is willing to give their time to help the grep community - it implies a good working knowledge of the game but it doesnt directly help within a specific world. They are players like everyone else.

As active players, we do have the right to criticize and make comments on the decisions of leaders and the events of the world.
I agree you do :)
 

dadofwildthang

Phrourach
@fuboltango

I thought of you today when i read this..

The grinding millstone The chaff invested air
The lone miller bow's in prayer Seemingly lost in the chaos The code of honour
Looking through the opaque The lone miller, is he sage Or lost in the modern age Tilting at windmills Is he a quixotic man Doubtful it was a plan His prayer said Now he mixes Rye, wheat, corn Out of this, bread is born Body soul and redemption Made of hand, blessed with spirit
The lone miller, is he sage Or is he lost in the modern age
Tilting at windmills
The code of honour reclaimed The nature of a man, set free Tilting at windmills He will always be

......................................................................
this is the finale
Attachments to Lost Causes
There are times that it happens, it's hard to let go,
If it does, don't blame others, but look deep inside,
But don't put yourself down, for most guilt is a show,
It's quite probable you're only caught up in pride!

Where's the value in tilting at windmills my friend,
Aren't our internal demons the ones to slay first?
Are attempts to save others a means to an end?
Do we work to earn God's love (so we are not cursed)?

Isn't 'lost cause' avoidance one place you should look?
Sad if joy's linked to other's response, that's untoward!
If your life at times clogs up, no heart to "make book?"
Doesn't faith in yourself pay a better reward?

To invest in your 'heart's' way to maximize gain,
Even better these plans you control, win or lose,
You can shut down adventures that cause to much pain,
And the best part is others are seeing you choose!

But there are some key issues I'd urge you to check,
Fine to care, but mistake to let other folks weigh on your heart,
For each person has duties! It's, “All hands on deck!"
Put your back into role assigned, flesh out your part!

You may shout, "Change the world!" That's a good way to die,
The sane man works on self! Let life's fools face their choice.
It's their best way to learn, though of course, some won't try,
Just be sure job gets done! Make success your clear voice!


Brian Johnston
22nd of September 2018
 
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MAC-9

Phrourach
Thus, let me repeat if the agents of the Empire do one more time deny the following facts:

1) It is not possible to deny that the "Evil Empire" exists, by this I mean the existence of mega-groups of extravagant gold users.
2) It is not possible to deny these groups work together and have developed a tendency to engage in large numbers of pacts.
3) It is not possible to deny that Worlds have often become a simple replica of one and another.
4) It is not possible to deny that the self-destruction of world wonders and other abuses became the norm.

As I have stated multiple times, this "Empire" would not be a problem. However, it has become "Evil" in the sense that it has stagnated and killed the growth and diversity of Grepolis worlds. It is like cancer that once sets in a world, discourages battles, diversity of approaches and variety of tactics.

The discussion that I am proposing is centered around how we can combat the Evil Empire and the ideology that their agents are trying to perpetuate as natural and normal.
this just reiterates that you just don't understand the higher levels of the game. it is in fact a game of power and control. those that are better at it, win. plain and simple. there is no evil about it. when you operate in the higher levels of the game, you know other people that also do the same. these are called 'peers'. we talk to each other sometimes. sometimes we work with each other on shared goals. sometimes we fight each other as a part of that power and control game.

the reality is that all of these functions about the game that you are complaining about, are legal functions of the game. you have every chance to use these same functions to your benefit. (except the corruption nonsense. obviously baseless accusations.) or you could work your way into the higher levels of the game and use the power you obtain to make things the way you want them to be.

gold is a part of the game and is how the game is paid for. nothing is free. so if you are not paying for the service, then you are the product. think about that.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
this just reiterates that you just don't understand the higher levels of the game. it is in fact a game of power and control. those that are better at it, win. plain and simple. there is no evil about it. when you operate in the higher levels of the game, you know other people that also do the same. these are called 'peers'. we talk to each other sometimes. sometimes we work with each other on shared goals. sometimes we fight each other as a part of that power and control game.

the reality is that all of these functions about the game that you are complaining about, are legal functions of the game. you have every chance to use these same functions to your benefit. (except the corruption nonsense. obviously baseless accusations.) or you could work your way into the higher levels of the game and use the power you obtain to make things the way you want them to be.

gold is a part of the game and is how the game is paid for. nothing is free. so if you are not paying for the service, then you are the product. think about that.
Dear @MAC-9: This is precisely one of the points. All these ideas of "power and control" and bunching of groups as seen now and wanted to be seen as "normal". When in fact, these practices are not meant to be. If the game would have unlimited number of member of players per alliance; then I would agree. However, you make conglomerates and NAP deals to make this mega-alliances or alliances on stereoids.

I know that you are happy with this approach of controlling the "masses" and a few people make decisions for the majority of the server, but it does not have to be this way, nor it was intended to be this way.

You have this constant fight to "legalize" or "normalize" your tactics and eliminate or stigmatize the tactics of the ones who resist you.
Were not you trying to make sure that people could not colonize on the margins? You want to control as much as you want, but some of us are not giving in.
We will fight here and in the game until the end. We will resist your tyranny.
 

MAC-9

Phrourach
Dear @MAC-9: This is precisely one of the points. All these ideas of "power and control" and bunching of groups as seen now and wanted to be seen as "normal". When in fact, these practices are not meant to be. If the game would have unlimited number of member of players per alliance; then I would agree. However, you make conglomerates and NAP deals to make this mega-alliances or alliances on stereoids.

I know that you are happy with this approach of controlling the "masses" and a few people make decisions for the majority of the server, but it does not have to be this way, nor it was intended to be this way.

You have this constant fight to "legalize" or "normalize" your tactics and eliminate or stigmatize the tactics of the ones who resist you.
Were not you trying to make sure that people could not colonize on the margins? You want to control as much as you want, but some of us are not giving in.
We will fight here and in the game until the end. We will resist your tyranny.
this is how the game was made. its a numbers game up and down. and teammates are a force multiplier. so keep banding together and your power goes way up. its a function of the game the way it is supposed to be played. there are alliance functions and diplomatic functions built into the game. we didn't just make it up. inno did.

i have no need to normalize anything except that if you play with me, you win. it is the company that you keep who wishes to normalize their bad behavior. yes i want inno to stop letting people colonize in the corners of the map. the only business they have out their is to hide while they terrorize those that just wish to play the game as intended. you call yourselves 'pirates', but lets call it what it really is, grepo terrorism. you hide in the caves of the tribal region like cowards. plotting how best to get under people's skin and enrage them so that they feel the same helplessness you feel every moment of your pathetic lives.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
There is no need to resort to personal insults. I am making a point about the dynamics of the game and how a group tends to justify their tactics and "criminalize" the tactics of the opposition.
 

Rachel.L

Phrourach
futbol, YOU made this personal
you have insulted the personage of almost every responder in all 49 threads on this topic, including a mod (a bannable offense)
that was after you insult all female grepo players
you have generalized that any player that is not you, no matter the alliance size or play style, is a criminal just because they disagree with you
you preach that "we" will fight the tyranny but no one has posted a single comment backing you up
many have agreed with your right to give your opinion (tho you insult others for the same) and the right to try things a new way (tho you have yet to do so)
no one will stand by while you rewrite history in current or past worlds (the stats are there to show what happened along with the pms) nor let you continue to insult others (friend and enemy alike) just to let you get attention
 
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