Newspaper Trash talk with a newspaper at the start

Raydium88

Phrourach
Question.... if a pact you have great relations with "switches sides" and teams up with your enemies to take you out, so they ensure they are the ultimate winners..... is this honourable gameplay?
See the way to avoid getting entangled in a mess like that, is easy... don't have a pact to begin with lol. Hope that answers your question.
 
I don’t think you can really compare the low number of players hugs have taken in on this server to the MRA, mass-merging, bully-boy tactics of True Fear? Calling double standards is a pretty weak argument really.

The leaders of HT have taken in limited numbers who are generally players who have similar strategies to how we operate; players who’s faces will fit and will add strength to what we do on a day by day basis.

There have been no forced merges, taking the cream and ruining the game for huge chunks of the player base. I know these tactics have been around for a while because I watched TF try to cuddle their way to a crown on EN92 and fail spectacularly. Maybe you’ll get away with it on this one but only if you manage to bore us all to death.

Meanwhile all of the players who get binned off by these merges end up leaving the game behind because it’s not fun anymore.

Maybe you can claim you are happy with that style of play but we think it ruins the game so we are perfectly entitled to come on here and call you a duck if you look like one and sound like one.

What did Hugs do to SDSU? You literally took every one of our home cities, and attempted to recruit multiple cream of the crop members, including a leader... I don’t buy your concern for another players experience. I don’t buy TF ruining the game for offering a kinder surrender policy, Hugs has completely obliterated their fair share of alliances. SDSU, Oblivion and Trolls are some that I know of. In their war with Wargasm they rimmed a leader obviously not caring how that would affect his, or his alliances game experience. I don’t mean to complain about the fate of SDSU, it was well fought we were outmatched. I mean to point out the double standard coming out again in your post:)


I am happy that they helped me and my friends stay in the game when no one else would stand against Hugs. TF stepped up when everyone else cowered in fear of Hugs. That is why I am with TF, and that is why many are loyal to TF. No other alliance has fought hugs as consistently or successfully.



Raydium,


Nice, you guys are tearing it up, I never said you guys were not doing well. You have been #1 for almost the whole server, anyone with half a brain could tell you that... Another reason that I am happy we found some friends capable of helping our remaining people stay in the game while Hugs seemed to try their best to push us out completely:)

That aside, unless you don’t do wartime recruiting judging others for doing it is hypocritical. So despite your success thus far it’s still a double standard to complain about someone else poaching.
 

Raydium88

Phrourach
hat aside, unless you don’t do wartime recruiting judging others for doing it is hypocritical.
So... you're telling me, if I recruit 8 players, and TF recruits 80... (the actual number is higher, but I do have to double check), that's the same... and that's me being hypocritical?

What I posted was to illustrate the difference when it comes to ways of managing an alliance... One alliance fights, the other gets their cities from merging. There's an acronym for that... MRA. The plague TF swore to fight against, server after server.... Now THAT is hypocritical lol.

Anyway, once again, congratz on the merge! Hope it serves you lots, as right as you believe it will :)
 

Thizzle

Strategos
Stop trying Ray, they are brainwashed lol

Anyone in doubt can check the stats. Exactly how many players have TF recruited, and more interesting, how many of those are still around today?
Its one thing to be attacked and lose, but to be internalised just for your cities. That sucks big time. Is a shame for those that fall into the cathegory of food.

We work on retaining our players, whereas an alliance like TF recycles all their "trash" until they have a team. Been there, done that, just years ago. Now we have our team and we work around it, rarely replacing anyone.

Only thing that can be said here is, theres levels to this thing and TF will get there eventually.

I wonder whats going to happen next.

My guess would be for TF to attack Noname and pressure them into merging. Lets see how long that will take. Lets get it over with and go back to your spanking James.
 

michaelmhike

Phrourach
Im a bit late to this argument but heres my two pence on it (been reading/stalking the posts quite often), HUG THIS seem to think everything any other alliance does is bad for the game in general and its causing players to leave entirely. well firstly im pretty sure the one sided slaughtering of any alliance that has stood against hug this has contributed to the departure of alot of new players because lets be honest you guys arent taking most of those types of players on board once the alliance has disbanded(alliance cap and all). Im not saying dont attack and slaughter other alliances but dont act like you guys are saints and TF are the bad guys. TF has gained alot of players from other alliances, nobody denies that because its not a bad thing, if it wasnt for TF i probably wouldve left this world and possibly the game by now, im sure many players with TF feel the same because theres finally another alliance that can hold their own against hug this so we might get some good fun out of this world after all(FUN IS THE POINT OF THIS ISNT IT). What HUG THIS players are doing is on one hand shaming those from alliances who join TF and on the other hand saying they think we should or shouldnt do this and that because its not good for the game and for new players(the very same new players you just shamed in the forums because of their in-game choices). get off your high horses and stop whining, if you guys are as good as you claim and not only in it to win then the fact theres finally a decent fight coming should make you all happy instead of all this whining about alliances banding together to fight you, or would you prefer we all stay in smaller alliances so you can pick us off one by one? in my opinion premade alliances like yourselves are bad for any world as it forces MRA alliances to form otherwise its an easy win because itd take too long for enough good experienced players to join together naturally in world. When i first played this years ago premade alliances are what made me stop playing for a while as no matter how hard you try theyll always have that massive advantage over any alliance formed in game.
so to be clear the only reason TF seems to be pissing you guys off so much is because you guys no longer have an easy win.
TF has kept me and many other new/ unexperienced people in this world and this game whereas you guys are so proud of the fact you dont exceed the alliance cap while shaming other alliances and players into not wanting to join TF therefore left with no other option but to ghost.
Overall i think HUG THIS give TF a bad name on this forum and its gotten to a ridiculous stage where im almost tempted to never read the forums again, if you dont like how the other team plays there is plenty of other worlds and games you can join(whether the other team are spamming, using gold like it isnt actually real money your spending(FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY IT IS), revolt cancelling, etc..
Now can we please move on from the same argument thats been in every thread. its just starting to annoy me and alot of people at this stage. Both sides are doing what they need to to win, if the other side isnt happy tough, thats life, people never play the way you want them to, thats why its fun so rise to the challenge or whine somewhere else please before the forum loses more readers.
 

That Guy

Hoplite
You literally don't even comprehend how uneducated you sound @michaelmhike TF has taken how many high player alliances now and condensed them down to 2 alliances? 7 at least if I'm remembering correctly. That's on top of their 2 already high player alliances, bringing the total number of nearly full alliances up to 9 that have all been consolidated down to just 2 alliances. Let's assume there's 45 people in each of those original 9 alliances, that's 405 players that have been consolidated down into a ~100 member? Where'd the other 300 or so players go? They became food for TF, which honestly is really s***ty. Hugs has caused 3 alliances (135 players by the same 45 members/alliance estimate) to disband, but most players end up joining other alliances. Realistically, they've ruined the game for a fraction of the people that TF has. I'd say the number might be as high as 60, but that really doesn't compare to 300 players. Hugs plays the game like it's Risk, very strategically, while TF plays like hungry-hungry-hippos, just picking up as many players as they can so that they can jump up in points and eating up anyone that doesn't make the cut.
 

michaelmhike

Phrourach
You literally don't even comprehend how uneducated you sound @michaelmhike TF has taken how many high player alliances now and condensed them down to 2 alliances? 7 at least if I'm remembering correctly. That's on top of their 2 already high player alliances, bringing the total number of nearly full alliances up to 9 that have all been consolidated down to just 2 alliances. Let's assume there's 45 people in each of those original 9 alliances, that's 405 players that have been consolidated down into a ~100 member? Where'd the other 300 or so players go? They became food for TF, which honestly is really s***ty. Hugs has caused 3 alliances (135 players by the same 45 members/alliance estimate) to disband, but most players end up joining other alliances. Realistically, they've ruined the game for a fraction of the people that TF has. I'd say the number might be as high as 60, but that really doesn't compare to 300 players. Hugs plays the game like it's Risk, very strategically, while TF plays like hungry-hungry-hippos, just picking up as many players as they can so that they can jump up in points and eating up anyone that doesn't make the cut.
I never once claimed TF hasn't caused players to quit but what other choice is there, you can only take on so many, this isn't as simple as the numbers you're sprouting off.i mean if you were to take the number of brand new players still in the game from TF and HUG THIS I'm pretty sure we both know who'd have far more, so your numbers don't mean anything especially in the long run.
What really ticks me off the most is you guys whine when there's no good opponent and then whine when you finally get one because you think how they got this far is wrong, and despite all that we don't go preaching and shaming players for joining another alliance and there's certainly more new/ inexperienced players being given opportunities by TF than HUG THIS, if we did things the way you guys want this world would have you guys right at the top and no other alliance anywhere near challenging you guys, pretty sure in terms of keeping new players in the game that's as boring and disheartening as it gets, building loads of cities just to be slaughtered by HUG THIS because we stuck to these imaginary rules that only seem to suit HUG THIS and premade alliances
 

That Guy

Hoplite
I'm not in Hugs. I'm part of the group from Mercs that refused to merge and risk being absorbed at a later point in time. TF is already starting to feed off those that didn't merge.

Also, those numbers do mean a ton. You claimed Hugs was causing people to quit. I provided a counter saying and demonstrating that TF is significantly more at fault for something you claim. That's a genuine opinion based off my own experience. I've witnessed first hand defense against Hugs, and it's simply not the same as TF, whom I'm actively defending against now. Your alliance takes in boat loads of people and uses them for food later, many of which are new players.
 

NotAs.Sweet

Taxiarch
I'm not going to quote anyone, or draw from the previous conversation in any way, I'm just going to give my opinion as a brand new player. I started off this game (Grepolis, not just Pharae) in SDSU, and maybe a month into the game, HT got their hands on us. Here's the thing, I had no problem with it. Lucky me got a crash course in elite defense! That part of the game was REALLY FUN, but I wasn't sure if I was going to get to see the rest of this world out, and then TF took us in. At that point the only thing on my mind was, "Great! I get to keep playing this game!" But every time TF comes under fire for absorbing alliances, this game becomes a little less fun for players like me. I just want a game to play, but this might be my first and only world simply because I don't think I can deal with the politics of it again. Everyone keeps bringing up how many players are in TF, but no one seems to actually acknowledge those players. You don't respect those of us that chose to join TF? Fine. It's a war game, you're bound to make some enemies. But shaming new players for wanting to learn the game under the guidance of a strong team? We're more than a handful of people you dislike. We're just trying to play while we can.
 

That Guy

Hoplite
And how many other brand new players are there left in TF exactly? Last I checked, there's still hundreds of people that were "taken in" that are now unaccounted for. Where'd they go? Congrats on teaching 1 new player how to play though! Go team, am I right!?!?

Edit:

The thing you obviously aren't getting is that TF isn't bringing/forcing people into their alliance to teach them.
 

pgalland25

Phrourach
And how many other brand new players are there left in TF exactly? Last I checked, there's still hundreds of people that were "taken in" that are now unaccounted for. Where'd they go? Congrats on teaching 1 new player how to play though! Go team, am I right!?!?

Edit:

The thing you obviously aren't getting is that TF isn't bringing/forcing people into their alliance to teach them.
You sound like you want this to be FarmVille, let me help you out: facebook.com
 

That Guy

Hoplite
Yeah I've heard how PC is, how leadership abuses the people there by taking advantage of their lack of not knowing better. That's teaching people how to play reeeaaally well. Teaching them to only do as they're told so that they'll make perfect food in the long run. The "1 player" thing was quite obviously a sarcastic exaggeration. Good job on picking up on that though too.

Also, I'll pass on farmville. GO is more my style, but that's probably too hard for you so I'll start you out with some chess if you'd like.
 

Ahr-Ex

Phrourach
Yeah I've heard how PC is, how leadership abuses the people there by taking advantage of their lack of not knowing better. That's teaching people how to play reeeaaally well. Teaching them to only do as they're told so that they'll make perfect food in the long run. The "1 player" thing was quite obviously a sarcastic exaggeration. Good job on picking up on that though too.

Also, I'll pass on farmville. GO is more my style, but that's probably too hard for you so I'll start you out with some chess if you'd like.

I’m the leadership of PC.

If you track back, you would see that dozens of them have moved into the main team. Everyone gets the same chance, but the sad fact is that many people ask for invites and few really want to make the effort to learn to play. We don’t waste much time on those, and neither would HT.
 

Hyperadox

Hekatontarch
There are two types of conquering going on here. One, is conquering by force, taking cities and destroying an alliance entirely. We've seen a lot of it this server. Two, is absorbing those players that you would have conquered into your own alliance. We've also seen a lot of this. Each has ups and downs, pros and cons. It's not to say that one is better than the other, but each does have drawbacks.



We can see that True Fear currently has more players, more points, and more cities. However, this is spread across their two alliances. The way I see it, Hug This strategy is preparing them for a smooth transition into the endgame win condition. True Fear strategy is preparing to prevent Hugs from being able to do that, trying to create something that's just too big to fight. Both strategies are valid at this point, as it is neither the beginning of the server when players are scrambling to form teams, nor is it the end of the server where one alliance has to control 40%. We're in the middle ground right now. Can True Fear win doing this? No, they can't. They simply do not have the means.



However, that does not invalidate their strategy, as it is being implemented as a direct response to what Hugs has been doing. (Before anyone from TF try to jump on that and say "Not everything we do is centered around Hugs" Be quiet. Yes it is. Everything you're doing is in preparation for the inevitable war you'll have to fight, and if everything you're doing isn't preparing yourself for that, you're going to lose.)

Now, let's address the "It's fair if it's part of the game" and "Developer intent" and "Acceptable game play". Starting with this quote from Raydium88:
I'd like to think the community that plays the game owes some responsibility too...
I love this way too much. There is no such thing as a perfect system, anywhere you go there will always be ways to abuse the "Rules". Money laundering, Police bribing, and pretty much the entire legal system are examples of this (Any lawyers here wanna back me up on this?) Does that make any of those activities acceptable? I guess that depends where you set your moral compass. I guess that depends if you feel like those even have anything to do with your moral compass.

To settle this once and for all. Of the activities that you're questioning or defending, are these things that you think improve the community as a whole? Or are these things that decay it to it's ultimate destruction? Is this something that adds or takes away?

Now to answer that we can make the argument that it has both pros and cons, which I'll concede as a valid point. But do the pros outweigh the cons? Is this a community we can be proud calling ourselves part of when those practices are considered acceptable? Just something to consider.
 

jameslongst

Strategos
Stop trying Ray, they are brainwashed lol

Anyone in doubt can check the stats. Exactly how many players have TF recruited, and more interesting, how many of those are still around today?
Its one thing to be attacked and lose, but to be internalised just for your cities. That sucks big time. Is a shame for those that fall into the cathegory of food.

We work on retaining our players, whereas an alliance like TF recycles all their "trash" until they have a team. Been there, done that, just years ago. Now we have our team and we work around it, rarely replacing anyone.

Only thing that can be said here is, theres levels to this thing and TF will get there eventually.

I wonder whats going to happen next.

My guess would be for TF to attack Noname and pressure them into merging. Lets see how long that will take. Lets get it over with and go back to your spanking James.
We were having us a good old war and then the Huggies decided they had left a meatloaf in the oven or something, left a month ago and never came back.

You aren't better than anyone else. You spend more. Congrats I guess.
 

OutOfCharacters

Chiliarch
Hmmm what makes “a good opponent” or a “strong team”?

To me a good opponent seeks exciting battles and enjoys testing their skills, sharpening them against yours. (And they behave respectably, of course.) That’s different than “a potential crown winner”. TF may be strategizing for a win, but it will not be the result of epic wars or battle strategy. It will simply be whether enough of the large players on the server want to toss in for a win. TF has held true to this strategy through 8 (or more?) acquisitions, we don’t really need to debate it.

Those choosing this merge-to-win approach ...there’s no shame... it’s been around for ages. It’s just a different game and not much fun for those who’ve been there, done that. I recall on 110 many of us asking to play a server where that wouldn’t happen—TF leadership included.

Win or lose I will finish this server having only played with 59 other teammates at any given time, even though it would be far easier for us to take on a second branch. (That would be the surest way for Hugs to counter TFs repeated recruitment, in order to level the playing field—but we refuse.) The pride, fun, and skill development that comes with playing independently is unmatched. Fear drives people to mass pact and recruit instead of learning to work together and rely on each other. Ignoring that fear is what makes good players learn to be great. Having DLU shipped in from others to buff up your front line cities is not skill. Learning to actively defend against an onslaught IS. What happens when you pull in more players instead of learning to play better is...you have to keep pulling in more players. The only way to hold your ground is to keep adding big players so you have more cities and more troops than your enemy, since you never learn how to maximize their efficiency. BORING. For me a win is when I feel I have executed well personally and as a teammate... it has nothing to do with a crown. We all know the difference between really feeling like you earned something great, and getting the participation trophy. Forget that!!!

Lots of mediocre and poor grep players have crowns. Some people find crowns “fun”, others find skill development “fun”. (@1saaa seems to find getting bashed for newspapers “fun”.) I’m pretty sure we all have different definitions of fun or else this thread wouldn’t be so active. ;)

There's so much more to learn from this game than just “having more people than your enemy”. I do admit I struggle to find the fun in that. But I guess that’s why I’m in HT.
 

Lana98

Hekatontarch
We had that mindset in SDSU OOC, against the rest of O44. Yes its a strategy many would aspire to.
Unfortunately we were seen as a "rising threat" and got out-golded (no, this is not me complaining against gold use, just stating a fact) and HT went for the jugular before a talented bunch of fighters even really stood a chance to get established. And fair play to you all, I would have done the exact same....

So what do you do when "plan A" doesnt work out? You go for "Plan B"....or quit....
There are many players like me, who arent big gold spenders, who are "slow starters"... but over time catch up. And we dont roll over, we've seen the hard times and losing cities = more slots to come back stronger.

HTs attitude to the players like me was "search and destroy". . and send to the rim. TF however sees the long term potential in players and gives them a second chance to rebuild into the players they can be.

So NO.... am not personally playing for the win.... first and foremost am playing for fun with a great group of players.... but what drives me to improve IS the fact that HT (I would argue, arrogantly) dismissed players like me as little more than "food". And thats a powerful inspiration to prove you all wrong ;)
 
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