Troy WW

sablestag

Phrourach
Mal, I have been letting my anger out on you for the past 2 days because I expected more from you. I could have always expected this move from TR, I could have expected something from Ryan, because I know he's in it to win it, but I expected you to be the actual noble one from TNR, and you clearly weren't here. But besides letting you know how I feel about this move, which is angry, how have I done anything wrong in this game? And I'd like to note, that me being angry isn't wrong, it's a pretty understandable reaction to being wronged.
 

Thomas

Guest
This is a war/strategy game.
This may not have been the nicest way to do it, but it was effective and you must surely respect the fact that at the end of the day, it is win by any means necessary.

And from what I can see, it isn't game over anyway. Don't give up!
 

DARNY71

Guest
lol im just gonna keep smiling and playing . we can bash each other here witch gets us no where or we can do it in game :) . all i can say is I play with respect to all players and i know for a fact no one can say other wise .
 

Maleficent80

Phrourach
all i can say is I play with respect to all players and i know for a fact no one can say other wise .
I agree whole-heartedly Darny!! And glad you're going to stay to duke it out til the end with us!! The world just got interesting again is all- would be a shame for the other half of the interesting to just up and leave :)
 

rrrr2626

Chiliarch
Winning

This is a war/strategy game.
This may not have been the nicest way to do it, but it was effective and you must surely respect the fact that at the end of the day, it is win by any means necessary.
Giving up your pride to win the easy way is deplorable. There is no honor in that. I would rather lose with a good fight. However, NR is not here to lose. Everyone knows that NR has won. We have controlled and dominated wars since the beginning. You may have treacherously opened the gates of Troy to be burned and sacked, but we will rise from the ashes to take Ruler of X.
 

AJ4J

Guest
There is definitely an unjustified sense of entitlement within NR. NR did not win, no matter how you try to spin it. Being the biggest does not mean that you have won, nor does it mean that you're the best. You had the chance to prove you were the best on the battlefield and, despite your far greater size, you failed to do so.
Personally, I think there was a massive amount of complacency within NR and a large group who were happy to hide in the shadows of some very good players and just walk to victory, I have absolutely no sympathy for those players. I do have sympathy for the players that were carrying them, but as has been said repeatedly, this is both a war game and a strategy game. You failed to beat us in war and now, by making more strategic mistakes, you have failed to beat us on strategy. NR is only ‘winning’ on points at the moment, and that means nothing. It is quite possible to dominate any game and still lose and I'm afraid that's what's happened here. This game is not just about brute force, you have to play smart.

Sable, you claim you only made one mistake, but if you actually believe that then you are clearly just not very good at the strategy side of things. Be honest, this isn't an interview, nobody asked you what your biggest fault was...

I agree that it's a good thing not to restrict players in alliances, but to claim that this was your only mistake is delusional, dishonest or naive.

As a recent example, it was quite easy for us to make it near impossible for you to take either of 2 world wonder cities, but you didn't need to take either of those cities to prevent us winning. You could have taken a city on any of the four islands that gave us victory. Had you tried to do that you would have had 80 potential targets and that would have been much harder for us to defend. It still may not have been easy for you but it wouldn't have been easy for us either and, had you succeeded, it would have forced a 3-3 stalemate and made you favourites to win again... oops.

Don't get me wrong, I have a great deal of respect for many in NR, particularly (but by no means only) Muwa who not only managed to hold a lot of big egos together in relative harmony, but also acted as the battering ram that a lot of you hid behind in the early days, just as Mal & Boom did for us. I think a lot of people underestimate how much having a big player on their side influences their progress and I believe things would be very different had he not been the one leading the way - being a good player isn't enough to be successful in this game.

Unfortunately I have lost all respect for Sable and Babs for turning a situation that they should rightly be annoyed and even angry about into a personal issue with Mal. That's unacceptable. If you viewed Mal as a friend before then you should still feel that way now, or at least after you've had a little while to calm down. If you don't then I don't believe you were friends in the first place. It seems to me that you were happy to be 'friends' as long as we let you win, which is ridiculous.

The 18 months that you've invested in Troy is no more valuable than the time the rest of us have spent there. If you consider it a waste because you didn't get a win then that's really your issue to deal with, not Mal's. The fun is in the journey, if it wasn't nobody would hang around to finish such a long game at all.

As I've said, I am sympathetic to those I respect in NR for having their expected victory stolen from them, and for the way in which we turned the game so abruptly at the end, but I absolutely stand behind every decision that was made on our side. We were trying to win just as you were and, despite Sable's protestations, we did not have a win at all costs mentality, but that doesn't mean we were going to lie down and hand you the victory.

When I was first told that there was somebody inside NR that wanted to cross over I was against it, but when I realised that it was a former TR player who had only recently joined NR, essentially being given the old join or leave ultimatum, that completely changed things for me. It was a leadership decision for NR to recruit Brave Lord, so leadership has to take the responsibility for the consequences of that decision, it's all part of the game. Nobody duped you into taking him and we have nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about for capitalizing on your mistakes.

There is nothing wrong with recruiting through force, everybody does it to an extent (don't they Mal?) However, I would question NR's decision to continue doing this so close to WW, particularly from an alliance that is so anti NR and one that a number of you have openly mocked on this forum. Perhaps you were thinking that anyone would be happy to just jump on the bandwagon, or maybe you underestimated the hostility there was towards you within TR (I think I probably did), but it clearly wasn’t a good decision.

Having recruited BL, I think it was another poor decision not to at least keep an eye on his actions after he joined. The very fact that he appeared so keen to get wonder island cities, which Sable seems to be saying proves he was a plant (I hope you haven't been on jury duty), should have thrown up a red flag. In that situation there is no way I would have built a wonder on an island that he was on.

I don't believe BL was a plant, but it is possible that he was (there is no way that we can know so I really think it’s pointless arguing about it). I don't know what his intentions were, nor how they changed over time. He could well have planned his move from the time he was recruited but kept it to himself, something could have influenced him while he was in NR, or he could have just wanted to have an impact on the world (which he did, his actions decided the victors). Ultimately, only he will know the truth and whatever he says there will be a proportion of people that don't believe him.

I don't think he was a plant because he was recruited at a time of extreme weakness, I would assume at that time he was just glad to still be in the game, not thinking about undermining NR. Had he been completely happy and made to feel welcome I would be surprised if he would have jumped, but that possibility was always there and you never know how someone is going to react to being forced to join, especially so far into the game when they’ve already forged friendships elsewhere - it's part of the game and something that leadership should have been aware of. You recruited him, you allowed him onto your wonder islands, you have to live with the consequences.

As far as I can see you can view the situation in two ways:
1, BL was planted, which means that you got played by TR. If that's the case then I have to say congratulations to TR; that was brilliant. The alliance that so many NR players have been publicly mocking stopped you from winning (maybe that mockery wasn't so wise in hindsight). You’ll disagree, but I think that's hilarious.
2, BL wasn't planted but had his own reasons for wanting to leave, in which case you got beaten 'hare & tortoise' style by an alliance that simply made less strategic mistakes than you did. (Sable, take note of the 'less.' I admit that we made mistakes, it doesn't make me a worse player.)

Take your pick.

We knew from the outset that we'd have to maximise every advantage we could gain in order to compete against the NR size advantage and stand a chance of winning. That is what we did and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. You got beaten to 4 wonders because you were outplayed on one level or another, it doesn't bother me which you believe it was or how outraged you feel about it, you have only been wronged by your own decisions.

If the roles were reversed I have absolutely no doubt that you would have used the situation to your advantage. In fact, I seem to remember you inviting players that were on our wonder islands not two months ago, how would that have been any different had they joined you? You would have compromised our wonders in order to make things easier for yourselves and yet we're apparently despicable for doing the same. I'm not buying it.

Personally, I was surprised that we were even able to keep pace with NR in the early days of WW. A lot of players within our alliance really stepped up and contributed a lot more than I was expecting them to. As a result I believe we over performed in comparison to NR and had we not then we simply wouldn't have had a chance. We were only in a position to capitalize on BL's move because of this immense group effort, and even with it NR could have stopped us if they'd focused the building of the 5 other wonders differently.

It took a lot of luck and sacrifice to get ourselves into that winning position and I am incredibly grateful to everyone in TNR for their contribution. As of 20:43 TNR are ‘victors of the world’ and I’d like to publicly thank and congratulate them on their victory.

Now the battle for all 7 wonders begins…

Apologies for the mammoth post, I obviously had a lot to say.
 

KC8555

Guest
For the record, I'm still going to mock Thermal Resistance for their overall uselessness no matter the result. My one goal since encountering them has been to do what I do best: instigate!
I personally don't think Brave Lord was a plant just because I'm not sure there is enough thinking power and strategic thinking running through that alliance to conduct something that could be viewed as "strategery" or any manifestation of it that doesn't include "oh goodness, let's respond by turtling".
So yeah, I don't have enough respect for TR to believe they could've planned and executed a plant as a purposeful venture
 

KC8555

Guest
Because we're pretty awesome to our own members probably. He thought he was doing a favor handing off some responsibility to other players, can't blame him for it. Besides, we could use his firepower in getting the 7 WW's
 

KC8555

Guest
Punch, where do your posts keep going?!?! I can't bicker with myself on here, I get enough of that outside here! You're making me look crazy (which is not outside the realm of possibility)
 

CNoteG

Phrourach
Somebody emailed me to look at this thread and I came out of Grepo retirement to say this one thing

In my years of playing Grepolis I have learned the forums are primarily used for players, leaders, and alliances to spout their propaganda and argue their own hypocrisies by twisting other peoples words and this entire thread is a beautiful example of that. The fact of the matter is that in Grepo, if it doesn't get you banned then it was plenty fair no matter how underhanded it was.

Being underhanded may win you the game, but it doesn't make it fun and it's the reason I quit playing here.
 

Vorrian

Phrourach
Somebody emailed me to look at this thread and I came out of Grepo retirement to say this one thing

In my years of playing Grepolis I have learned the forums are primarily used for players, leaders, and alliances to spout their propaganda and argue their own hypocrisies by twisting other peoples words and this entire thread is a beautiful example of that. The fact of the matter is that in Grepo, if it doesn't get you banned then it was plenty fair no matter how underhanded it was.

Being underhanded may win you the game, but it doesn't make it fun and it's the reason I quit playing here.
Cnote, There are still good people playing. They can be tough to find, but it is worth the effort.
 

C.W. Hamilton

Guest
HA!! You whiners!!

Cnote, There are still good people playing. They can be tough to find, but it is worth the effort.
Last I checked, this was a war game. If you can't handle espionage No Rules, then maybe it is your players who should play sims. I for one know beyond a doubt that you had a spy in TR for a long time before we rooted him out. At the end of the day, it's a game, you lost, get over it and quit whining. As for being despicable on either side, I say again...it is a war game. Jeez you bunch of pansies.
 

sablestag

Phrourach
Last I checked, this was a war game. If you can't handle espionage No Rules, then maybe it is your players who should play sims. I for one know beyond a doubt that you had a spy in TR for a long time before we rooted him out. At the end of the day, it's a game, you lost, get over it and quit whining. As for being despicable on either side, I say again...it is a war game. Jeez you bunch of pansies.
It's interesting that you quoted a player there that was actually not in NR and fought NR for months...
 

C.W. Hamilton

Guest
I don't know who you think I quoted but the facts are the facts, you lost. Get over it.
 

sablestag

Phrourach
You clearly quoted vorrian, and I never said I wasn't over it, been over it for a month now. You're the one still going on about how just your win was. Are you this caught up in a victory that you only got through tagging along after real players that you've forgotten how to speak with others intelligently?
 

C.W. Hamilton

Guest
If you read vorrian's quote and then mine, they are "clearly" not the same. As far as you be over it, then why are you still in here crying foul?? Why are you even responding to any post I make?? "Clearly" you are over nothing. And yes, I'm being obnoxious about it. Not nearly as obnoxious as NR players playing the game with their threats and callous remarks, but obnoxious none the less. By the way, check my stats, for a guy who was a part-time player for a majority of this world, my stats speak for themselves. Tag along?? Yeah, believe whatever you want if it makes you sleep better at night. Intelligent enough for you??
 

sablestag

Phrourach
If you read vorrian's quote and then mine, they are "clearly" not the same. As far as you be over it, then why are you still in here crying foul?? Why are you even responding to any post I make?? "Clearly" you are over nothing. And yes, I'm being obnoxious about it. Not nearly as obnoxious as NR players playing the game with their threats and callous remarks, but obnoxious none the less. By the way, check my stats, for a guy who was a part-time player for a majority of this world, my stats speak for themselves. Tag along?? Yeah, believe whatever you want if it makes you sleep better at night. Intelligent enough for you??
I claimed you were a tag-along because every single city you took was from an inactive or an internal. I may not have won this world, but atleast I played it, and the few times I spouted over-confident stuff I atleast had my in-game play to back me up in it, what do you have a silly crown that TNE gave you? Why are you still here posting if you don't want me here to reply, who are you even talking to?
 

C.W. Hamilton

Guest
Getting a little puffy, aren't you sabs? I don't know what stats you are looking at saying all I took was inactives but I did take my share of them to keep them away from you guys. Plus, if you go into my core ocean of O57, you will not see a NR banner flying anywhere (unless you go in now and takeover some small player to spite me). By the way, despite having several cities right where NR wanted to be, I never lost a single one. Funny...with all the attacks from NR and their "Dream Team" players being all around me, I never lost a city to you guys. Well, I guess you will say I was never targeted...even though the stats will disagree.

Sabs, I'll leave it at this. NR was a great alliance, I'll give you that. But being huge made you think you were untouchable. If you go back through the forums and read all the vitriol spewed about TR, you will understand why I'm in here yanking your chain now. More than anything, I wanted to see who I could get a rise out of. You win!! At least you won something in Troy.
 

KC8555

Guest
Yo C.W. everyone knows TR is rubbish. TNE was a good alliance and you guys rode their coat tails. If you guys think you actually brought something to the equation other than a planted spy, you're crazier than I originally thought. And not the good, attack against all odds crazy, silly trying to open door knobs with your elbows crazy. You guys win in name only, go to any other world and you'll get beaten like a dusty rug. It's already happened to the couple other worlds I saw TR guys try to start up in. They get beaten around by anyone who actually targets them and can't try to fly under the radar by being so awful they pose no threat so no one even bothers.
 

punch drunk

Phrourach
WOW.......... LOL @ KC!!!!!!!!!!!

Planted spy? If he was planted it was by you all. DUH. If he was grown it was by you all. DUH. If he was in a position to cause injury it was by you all. DUH. If he was disgruntled it was by you all. DUH.

TR rubbish? Seems to me that TR completely stagnated the NR virus NR in O45/55. Stone walled by and alliance that was 1/3 your size. Whats that say about you all?

Get over it and yourselves. You really aren't all that you think you are.. Troy proves it.

Thanks for the fun and the crown! I appreciate it!
 
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