Update to Version 2.160 Discussion Thread

Baudin Toolan

Grepolis Team
Bp changes clarification/info:
The server will know where the troops came from so their location when they are killed doesn't change the amount of bp gained. So if you kill ally troops who happen to be supporting an enemy siege you'll receive reduced bp for the ally troops you kill and full bp for the enemy troops.

Anything more specific or something else entirely that clarification is needed on? I'll ask in the morning.
 

Lethal-Bacon

Polemarch
well thats good enough for me.. so pact mates will get full bp while attacking my city under enemy siege that consists of enemy defenses, but when i need to kill allies troops/friendly fire and whatever, i get reduced bp, fine.

while not having an "official" pact will go around this.. so in reality just stick to NAP's and thats it :)
 

Baudin Toolan

Grepolis Team
Yeah it seems that killing enemy troops results in full bp like normal regardless of where they were, in your city or an ally/pact member's city. Killing alliance troops or pact member troops results in reduced bp regardless of where they were located. Killing your own stuff gives no bp.
 

DeletedUser35722

Guest
well that's me not logging into this forum account as there seems to be no point other than talking with never anything happening. Y'all probably don't care as i'm 1 man in many but I had hopes for inno, and the grepolis players council developing more of a community outside of the game in order to make the game better.
But inno just do what they want anyway, even if my point wasn't the one they went with, like now, i would have accepted it more after futher discussion but it's hard to accept as no ones opinion was considered in the making of crucial new rules.
Adios.
 

DeletedUser44867

Guest
Concerning BP Stuff:

Piano, sorry that I didn’t directly respond to the post that you made in council. If I’m being entirely honest, I have a tendency to not want to share my personal opinions for a fear of people saying “well the council didn’t agree with me so they just didn’t tell the developers my opinion.” believe it or not this was actually mentioned to me once....
Which isn’t entirely true - I do mention most of the concerns listed (or the most popular ones) to the devs - including that one****. And usually there is some discussion about those perspectives in skype or in the forums, and what we think about them. But…. I also give my own opinions to the devs when giving your opinions.
I'm not in council anymore, so I'm not as worried about sharing my perspective.

The response to the BP changes did have some controversy - you weren't alone in your opinions... but from people I talked to it was majority positive feedback. Part of the reason they left the 20% was from concerns made by others about valid self-killing: getting rid of excess troops, clearing out allies towns when they go missing, etc.

Probably the biggest complaint I read, even coming from people that don't like cannibalism, in response to the BP change was that you can run festivals, use gold, or self-kill on enemy troops and come up with the same results - and that the only huge benefit is bp rankings. I have my own personal opinion on that: yes, there are other ways to do it. So people should just use those methods.
I'm also not sure if there is any validity to this, but I think self-killing can give players a pretty big head start at the very beginning of the game, in comparison with running festivals. When you have a plethora of cities built up festivals become a lot easier to run and that gap closes, and are probably more or less on par with self-killing, but the immediate impact is pretty big. At least, that was my experience after doing a festival and theater only CP gain. Self-killing is also partially dependent on your alliance, though, more members = more bp.
I also actually care about fighter rankings, and I would much rather see them represent people who are actually fighting and not self killing. I know that with gold using it is skewed anyways, but a lot of the time when it comes to end games I see the players who are actually fighting and not using as much gold end up in the very top rankings. Or at least, players who allege that they don't use as much gold. Bragging rights or not, I still would like to see it.

Rachel brought up another thing, and that was that if it's within the rules it's a viable strategy. Personal again, don't really agree with that viewpoint. Part of that is I like to think of war games as 'realistic' as possible - and if I were to go to my friends' house and kill all of them, my other friends probably wouldn't sit around and wait for me to do the same. They'd probably stop being friends with me. I don't think of exploiting loopholes as necessarily fair versions of strategy. Frequently in games when you see a loophole, bug, glitch, etc. is found and people use it enough, the developers will go back and modify it so that people can't do it as much. Maybe not making it explicitly 'against the rules', but from my view it's their way of saying 'you aren't supposed to be doing this, although we don't want to make it 'illegal' because it can still be used in viable situations.'.

also at one point Rachel said it "does not take away from other players".... I would agree and disagree with that. I think on the surface no players are physically impacted by that, or at a huge disadvantage. But I also think you would be surprised how much some people care about their fighter rank and get upset when other people overtake them for not actually 'fighting' enemies. Using Piano as an example, and I don't mean this poorly on you because it's actually really impressive, but just trying to give my perspective: on Tegea he has 26 million bp, almost all attack.... which is really impressive and might be the biggest total I have ever seen.
smiley_emoticons_bravo2.gif
(Like actually. that might be a world record for Grepo) The next closest is Tanno at 16 mil, and in third place is *MGK* of SSS at 9mil abp and 6 mil dbp, 15mil total. Now, I don't know MGK or Tanno, and don't know if they do the self-killing thing or what. But, if not, that gap between self killing and enemy killing is pretty huge. And frankly, if I was MGK or Tanno.... I would be kind of upset. This might be the greatest game they've ever played... they could be the best players contending in the server and almost unbeatable... but they still aren't going to be #1 in fighting by a long stretch. And they might not feel as much need for competing against each other because they know the number 1 spot is impossible to reach. They would each need to rack up literally 10mil+ bp to catch up. Now, I can't speak for them obviously, and they might not care at all, but I would be upset if it were me.


Those are just my perspectives on it anyways
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edit:
**** to clarify this point. By most I mean if 20 people all vaguely say the same thing, I try to summarize said thing, take it to inner council skype to discuss it, and then post to devs.
 

DeletedUser22115

Guest
Concerning BP Stuff:
(Like actually. that might be a world record for Grepo) .
Not sure what the record is but Digital Mystikz must be close, with 47.2 million bp.

As far as killing your own troops, i never liked the idea of it, generally if i need space in a city i will give the bp to an alliance member or i will attack an enemy. BP is called battle points, it is hardly a battle if you are sacrificing your own troops and letting them die, but this is my opinion, maybe it is wrong. But i don't consider bringing a lamb to the slaughter a battle.
 

DeletedUser55040

Guest
In my opinion this is Grepo finally going in the right direction. Can’t speak for everyone but I am pretty most of us are happy that simcity style players will now move on to different game. It’s embarrassing to kill your own units finally alliances like JS can find a better game for their style
 

DeletedUser51777

Guest
Yeah, I agree that its a step in the right direction, But to be honest it's not really stopping them. Take for example Byblos, Raeden Zane. Yesterday, he left his ally, Got 1 million ABP, from troop killing and then joined back... Simple as.
Like sure, it highlights the players, (but most already know who is troop killing), but it still doesn't stop them.

And yeah, Digi was on 47.2 Million a week before Rhammus closed, and I'm fairly certain none was troop killing

D1V9PRJ.png
 

DeletedUser28771

Guest
So the newest update to version 2.160 about reducing BP...what about attacking sieges held by enemies?
 

DeletedUser44867

Guest
So the newest update to version 2.160 about reducing BP...what about attacking sieges held by enemies?

see baud's post above:

Bp changes clarification/info:
The server will know where the troops came from so their location when they are killed doesn't change the amount of bp gained. So if you kill ally troops who happen to be supporting an enemy siege you'll receive reduced bp for the ally troops you kill and full bp for the enemy troops.

Anything more specific or something else entirely that clarification is needed on? I'll ask in the morning.


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addition: yeah Socrates, a lot of people had mentioned that concern and were wondering what would happen when it first was introduced. Honestly I think part of the reason the devs HAVE been so vague is because they don't want to be super specific in how it would work and have people find more loopholes. They would need to have some sort of tracker or cooldown timer for what alliance you were in prior, but that would interfere with people who are kicked out of alliances or people who quickly transfer to a new alliance.
 
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Rachel.L

Phrourach
just to clarify, @Phidippidies, my post in the dev blog was a reiteration of posts here in this forum
the "viable strategy" idea was not mine
my pov, if you are going to close one loophole, close them all
in the same post that original mentioned cannibalism as a viable strategy (not mine), many other work-arounds within the game are mentioned
none of those are punished so why this one?
i'm neither pro nor anti this change
I want fairness across the board and I want clarity from the devs... berg refused to answer me and months later bt finally got a response as to what was involved with the bp change
 

DeletedUser41532

Guest
I am actually surprised that so many of you like the change, while it stops that "troop killing" - which is really not fun to do, the statement from @Socrates357 that farmers will go to different games is, excuse me but - idiotic. Farmers never did that "troop killing". What I mean is - true farmers mostly do festivals.
like haveing 100+ slots with 300k BPs
smiley_emoticons_bravo2.gif
, stop this - right...

I read most of the replies, I didn't see anyone talking about the 'Tesla island strategy' being absolutely ruined by this update. With that being said - lets just delete Heracles from the game as his only actual use is now gone, well, unless you leave your alliance every time you need to do exchange waves with someone.

I agree that you can go around this silly thing (yes I believe it is total crap) but what - do I have to kick a member if he mistimed his LS and they hit my siege, or sth like that. Generally (before today), I would just get the BPs and be happy with it, now I have to kick him, tell him why I did I keep my fingers crossed that he is not one of them fragile souls that will not come back cuz I was mean.

To sum up, this might seem as a solution to a problem that really isn't that big of a problem. Too many ways to work around it and it only makes things more complicated.
Cheers to the person who thought of this. Sadly I can't say what he had in his head instead of a brain, I'll leave it to your immagination.
 

DeletedUser44867

Guest
my pov, if you are going to close one loophole, close them all
in the same post that original mentioned cannibalism as a viable strategy (not mine), many other work-arounds within the game are mentioned
none of those are punished so why this one?

Yeah, I'd agree with the loopholes thing. I think they would like to, but some of them are just plain hard to get rid of. I think the self-killing thing is a good example of that. The whole leaving alliance thing - that's a hard thing to get rid of. If they put a cool down timer on, and you kick someone out of your alliance, suddenly you have an angry player in your core who has cities you'd more or less be punished if you attacked.

I'm not sure I saw the post you're referring to - I try to read through all of them, but I know I miss a few with comments that are added later on that I miss. The gold using and festivals are, in my opinion, actually viable methods. They are built into the game. Simming still, yes, but viable. I guess I don't see cannibalism as really viable, though? So if you're planning on simming, I'd rather people do festivals rather than take the top of the BP board. Other 'loopholes' for it, depending on what they are because I don't think I saw those examples you mentioned, should probably be removed, I would agree.

I want fairness across the board and I want clarity from the devs... berg refused to answer me and months later bt finally got a response as to what was involved with the bp change

Yeah - I didn't see his initial response to you, and I know he edited it, so I'm not sure exactly what was up with the initial posting
Like I mentioned before, I do think they were being purposely a little bit vague to try and get around possible loophole finders... but I also know from talking to them that sometimes their english isn't always perfect and at times what they think is clear is .....not clear to me at all. I don't know if this was that case or not, and I'm not defending him for it or anything lol. (I'm also very nosey and like to know details, so...)
I've also seen more detailed conversations about it, so when I saw his response it made sense - but to me it said it would work, it just didn't explain how it worked. If that makes sense
 

Rachel.L

Phrourach
all sounds reasonable, phi
just doesn't feel that way

btw, being a council member (or former member) does not make you responsible for everything
there are ppl paid by inno to do some of this communicating
but I appreciate all you've done
 
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