Weekly Absurd Moralities

DeletedUser8396

Guest
Hey everyone!

I have an idea for a new debate thread: each week I will propose something typically perceived as wrong or right and ask if there is ever a time where that act is moral, immoral, justified, or unjustified (relative to whether it is generally seen as right or wrong). Hopefully this'll be fun!

Feel free to propose weekly ideas!

As for the first week, the topic is:

Is Lying Ever Morally Permissible? Why or Why Not?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
As we seem to be keen debaters recently, I will open this with:

If the lie is to protect the general happiness and well being of an individual, then yes, it can be morally permissible, although most would say they would prefer the truth initially.
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
How can one ever be sure that by lying they will increase someone's happiness?
Atleast when telling the truth you don't bare blame as you're just a messenger of reality.

Probably going to defend whatever side is losing but personally i can't stand when someone lies to "spare my feelings". Currently it's the one act that i can't bring myself to forgive someone for.
 
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DeletedUser46838

Guest
I feel like it depends on the situation:

If your a witness in a trial, you shouldn't lie even if it will protect the person your defending.

If you are lying because it's April Fools Day, then it is justified
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I agree that on the vast majority of occasions, lying is wrong, but I think in certain circumstances, for example lying to your kids as not to scare them is the morally correct thing to do. Obviously this depends from situation to situation, but I wouldn't say lying is always immoral, just almost always.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I agree that on the vast majority of occasions, lying is wrong, but I think in certain circumstances, for example lying to your kids as not to scare them is the morally correct thing to do. Obviously this depends from situation to situation, but I wouldn't say lying is always immoral, just almost always.

I agree with this. Also good man, for going for Birmingham!
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
Hate is hated due to its contrast to love, not for its own merit. We hate hate because one could love, and we love love because one could hate. All our determinations of things are fundamentally based upon the valuation of others. Remove one, the others will fall in value into meaninglessness. By removing the pain, you poison the happiness.

Let us apply this to the lie. We have the truth, correlation to love, and the lie, correlation to hate. Were we to remove the lies, or the possibility to lie, we would therefore remove the appreciation to truth. Yet if we look at the appreciation of truth, it is founded in the valuation of being true. If we remove this, then there is no necessity or inclination to speak truthful or accurate information. Essentially, we would remove the need for an individual to know things, and communication would devolve into conversations conveying ideas one would not know were fundamentally based in truth or were mere conjecture. Certainly one could ask if they were founded in truth, but due to the lack of valuation of being true, this question would be of no import. Society, in essence, would crumble.

All of this happens by the removal of the ability to lie. While the initial question does indeed not concern itself over the ability to lie being good or bad, it is a necessary component. Since the ability to lie is necessary in order for society to continue functioning (good) and for truth to continue existing as a good (good), the overall contribution of the ability to lie itself is good, but that specific instances of lying are only considered bad. Lying is, in essence, a good in itself as its primary results if unadultered by specific choices are good. We cannot judge lying based on its misuses.

Since it is a good in itself, this means any proper use of it is naturally going to be good. Any misuse of it could result in either good or bad, making the act immoral if the latter - perhaps. But anything which is not considered a misuse of the lie is indeed a moral good.

We must then constitute what a misuse of the lie is. Since we have established it as a good in itself for keeping the social structure together and by attributing value to truth, we must then deem any use of the lie which goes toward dissolving society or diminishing the ultimate value of truth as a misuse and bad.

Since lying cannot separate itself from the latter, devaluing truth, that is certainly out and can never be considered empty in it's fulfillment no matter the lie told. Then the only way to determine whether a lie is immoral is if the lie itself disallows the social structures to exist. Since society exists, and will continue to exist with lies present, all such lies have not disallowed society's existence, and are therefore still; contributing to the proper use of a lie, which is by definition moral. The only lie which would not be a moral act would be the lie which disallows society to exist. However, since it would still attribute to the value of truth, it would warrant a good and bad - therefore the act is neutral.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
No other team in Birmingham to go with ;)

Pebble... Just wow xD
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You spent so long on that piece, a couple of days after I'm still reading it :(
 

DeletedUser

Guest
We all know you're talented with the English language pebble, but no need to brag ;)
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
Depends on whether or not you betrayed the winning side ;)
 

DeletedUser47121

Guest
Treason is only allowed incase the outcome of it is suppose to be positive for society.

e.g Reporting your friend to the police because he has done something very wrong (stealing,killing,raping etc), this way you betray your friendship with him/her but the outcome is good for the society.
 
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