What Do You Hate About World Wonders?

Alright. We want to work on revamping the end game. But to ensure whatever we put forward doesn't contain too much of what is disliked now. We want to gauge the room. We want to make all aspects of the game enjoyable and this one has been a long time coming.

What single aspect of wonders do you dislike the most? Like if you could change something specific about it such as the simming or even building wonders entirely. What would it be? Please leave your feedback. :)
 
If I had my choice. (unlikely) Wonders would be done away with entirely.

They were always an artificial way of determining winners.

When winners were already clear.

Worlds could be of a pre determined maximum time frame ( say 10 months ) length with the first group to achieve X thousand Cities or Y thousand Points or Z Battle points. Being declared the winner.

Alliance hoppers would lose their points every time they hopped and so would the host Alliance.

Is there any chance of removing the alarm from the game so players actually have to play?
 

Dystopi4

Lochagos
I'd love to see a world without wonders. Maybe where the winning alliance is the first to completely own an ocean or some other goal. Just for a bit of variety.
 

FlopTurnRiver

Hipparchus
Remove wonders and let people fight! Its a war game and alliances should focus on how to win by fighting other alliances and not by planning how to build and sim!

Put another goal in order someone to win, like the first alliance to reach a number of points and maintain them for a number of days. Or an alliance which will own the X% of the world and maintain it for a number of days!
 

LadyFreya

Lochagos
Once the 7 wonders are completed by a single alliance, the 30 day countdown to server close should begin immediately.
Right now it is set up so the population must drop below 300. A lot of people want the end of the world award badge and the greposcore points. Unfortunately, because many people want this, it reduces the number of people that will leave the world once the 7 wonders have been completed. This also causes some people to restart with 1 city, so they can still get the badge and grepopoints, but they no longer need to worry about being attacked on morale enabled worlds - and they only need to log in once every 30 days. This results in the world lasting way longer than it needs to since the population remains high. (Now, of course 4/7 is victor and wins, and we know this, but we don't really care - it isn't over for the players until an alliance caps all 7 wonders.) Once a single alliance has capped all 7 wonders, if the 30 day countdown begins immediately, it alleviates the above issues and the world doesn't have to drag on forever.
 

LadyFreya

Lochagos
This is actually the most popular response by now via PM.
This particular game is based on world wonders. It is the focus and it is what the game is about. If taken away, it is a different game.

Unless there was a server similar to hyberborea, that never ends but allowed conquests, Inno would have to open many new servers constantly in order to accommodate the requests for different games. They would have to take into account speeds, alliance sizes, what the winning terms would be etc. They may as well develop an entirely new game on new servers where world wonders aren't the focus of the game.
 

quazzie15

Lochagos
I didnt like the fact that the new rule prohibits any wonder city being able to go into vm ,,, now i agree with the concept and idea that but feel it can be improved upon .as i play on another world , i needed a break but was surprised to find out that although i could go vm i couldnt protect my wonder cities on the other world.....so in essence if that world is in world wonder era for 2 years then you can not take vm for fear of your cities being taken and letting your team mates down ,,,,, now i hear you all saying well hand off your cities ,,,, that is well and good as long as your team has slots....in this instance a host of ghost players from ours and our opposing alliances ghosted around our wonder areas and this meant a lack of slots ,
I hit VM because of an emergency and i believe that you should be able to hit vm but on wonder era worlds only.. you should be able to defend yourself if an attack is incoming .

I had to frantically skype my teammates and guess what the attacks incoming was and they was totally blind which i felt to be unfair.I had no idea of timings or what it could be , i find it weird that no vm is allowed on wonder islands but if you are a city holder ypou cant protect it.

If i wasnt playing on another server this wouldnt have been an issue because i wouldnt have activated vm
i think you should be able to activate vm but also defend wonder cities only ,, so limited abilities on wonder world whilst being in vm
 
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This particular game is based on world wonders. It is the focus and it is what the game is about. If taken away, it is a different game.
Actually it wasn't like that originally. The first year and a half was just about fighting wars and building empires. World wonders were introduced to close out the game and lead people to the hero worlds. But those worlds ultimately failed.
 

Hoblenyk

Phrourach
I mostly like the wonders, other than a few quirks which are less numerous than they used to be. The one remaining annoyance is how tedious it is to transfer resources to the wonder, even if you have paid for all the advisors.

However, right now there is a wild fighting part of the game that suddenly transitions to the Age of Wonders. I'd rather see a middle phase, perhaps with non-exclusive and somewhat less powerful and expensive Island Wonders (perhaps like having a Large Building automatically for every city on that island without using up the slot, or boosting the effect of buildings like warehouse or farm). An alliance might become eligible for another one every 5 million points or so and by holding every spot on the island, and the cost and time might be about like a single level 8.

I'd also like to see the World Wonders be a bit more powerful or useful -- some of them are weak (hanging gardens) or overly specialized (lighthouse, statue, colossus). There should be a generally useful and noticeable advantage for every World Wonder.

One thing I hate about the game PRIOR to the Age of Wonders is how easy it is for treacherous players to suddenly leave alliances and cause much bigger swings in their fortunes than warfare ever could.
 
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SweetYes

Lochagos
TBH, WW are just a pain in the preverbial. Too many bots, or un-satisfied better halves. I would vote for a "King of the Hill" winner takes all. No crown rotations, just a last big bust up before the world shuts down.

Really do we need 2 years+ on a world & get all the drama that comes with it. If you want intrigue, go read a Agatha Christy novel.
 
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DizzlJoe

Phrourach
Do away with wonders. They serve really no purpose other than sending resources and the advantage and medals that you get are of not much use. Only the favour maybe. What this game would need is a variety of worlds with different settings to choose from.

Some want to play morale, non morale, conquest, revolt, no wws, just fighting, old school worlds etc etc. The game needs more spice and variety.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
I'd love it if we could have at least some worlds without World Wonders. (I'd be happy with eliminating them entirely, but not sure on the overall community view on that.) They cause a lot of drama, and force what is generally seen as a war/strategy game to become more of a resource management game if you want any chance of winning.

If we were forced to keep them, then one of the possible solutions is to hinder crown-sharing. I've got an idea on this, but it may be too extreme.

Proposed Change:
  • A World Wonder cannot be completed (upgraded to level 10) more than once on the same island.

Impacts:
  • Invalidates the tactic of demolishing one World Wonder to level 9, swapping in a set of players, and then upgrading it to 10 again to give everyone a crown.
  • For the same alliance to get another crown, they would have to completely demolish one wonder and build it from scratch on another island. This gives a huge window for an opposing team to get their corresponding wonder to level 10 and block the crown rotation.
  • The time and effort required to build a World Wonder from 0 to 10 would make it more tempting for the already-crowned players to quit instead of helping their teammates get a crown. And if a player knows that a lot of the first branch won't bother to help him/her get a crown once they have theirs, they won't want to spend a lot of time and effort helping them get their crown. This therefore discourages players from joining extra alliance branches that are created to feed the WW team.
  • The alternative tactic would be for another branch to build their own set of wonders up to 9, and then the WW branch demolishes their wonders one at a time to let the other branch build theirs to 10. This would decrease the chance of being blocked by an opposing team, but at the cost of having to build and defend an entire second (or more) set of wonders. Again, this would make it tempting for players to quit after they have their crown, therefore making players less likely to want to join feeder branches.
  • About the only non-rotation impact that I can think of is that it makes World Wonder breaks (on completed wonders) a lot more devastating. Instead of just throwing everything at the city to reclaim it and rebuilding the wonder by that 1 level, the team would have to sacrifice that wonder and build it again on another island.

This would make Wonders take longer, but also make them more strategic rather than just a matter of which team has the most feeder branches. It may also reduce the number of multi-branch alliances at other stages of the game.
 
The only Wonder about Wonders Is I wonder why we have put up with this nonsense for so long. When I first came back to Grepolis I asked When did the Bureaucrats take over the game.. ? Answer when Wonders were introduced.

Would Inno not be better off with lots of players playing a few trully competitive worlds of predictible duration? And for the vast majority of players a few real worlds running at any one time IMO also preferable.
 

Hoblenyk

Phrourach
I like some of Kai's ideas for stopping wonder rotations. It would make some sense if you win outright, building all 7, they all go poof after a week or so.

I also like the idea of having fixed timetables for worlds -- they are going to end after 12, 18, 24 months whether anyone has built wonders or not. It would have to depend on world speed and type of course.

Island quests are too high-stakes these days --all large denomination troops, requiring really large stationed troops. I hate the quests where you must defend yourself, they screw up tripwires and cause confusion during intense parts of the game; but you could argue that they are self-inflicted. The rewards and difficulty should be balanced for any given quest, and more varied between quests. The stories around the quests are also rather stale and never made much sense.

And I think there are too many events that take too much time from the real game -- events should be no more than a week and should happen at least a month apart, and should be adjusted to be more similar in their prizes.
 
Doing away with wonders is still the most popular response so far. Provided Inno goes for that. What I was thinking was experiment with different end games, rather than just a set one. This way we can see what people like, remove unpopular ideas, and narrow them down.
 

Rurick

Hekatontarch
Main problem that makes Wonders not intresting - creation of mega farm from 2-5 aliances. It is neccessary to find a way that really one ally can send resouces.


For example - if ally started to build wonders - disable any trade with outside. If in town on wonder comes support not from ally it can not stay in city exept if town under CS

Only after that could be some real competion
 

Loves You

Phrourach
@The Smilodon Fatalis
TSF said:
Alright. We want to work on revamping the end game. But to ensure whatever we put forward doesn't contain too much of what is disliked now. We want to gauge the room. We want to make all aspects of the game enjoyable and this one has been a long time coming.

What single aspect of wonders do you dislike the most? Like if you could change something specific about it such as the simming or even building wonders entirely. What would it be? Please leave your feedback. :)
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When you were not on Council, you stated along these lines, "The Council does not do anything, I lost because of Poll Bias, I have way better ideas."
Now that you are on Council, all I hear is, "Everyone, what are your thoughts and opinions? I don't have any of my own anymore, so.. lets ask the crowd."

And before you reply, and say something along the lines of; "These are big ideas, and these things take time to discuss and implement."
Or "Voicing my opinion on the external forums would diminish the value of other player's ideas who are not on Council, as they might feel that their idea is not being heard."

We elected you..... or you were kinda given the position as a Consolation Prize since people left.
Regardless; you were picked not just to say "Yes.. yes.. I hear you.. good idea", but to say, "Hey guys, I need new ideas for an endgame, I would also like to toss my own previously formed idea in the hat as well." Then we can review them and work on tweaking them together to find the one that best fits our needs.
 

Phidippidies

Phrourach
@The Smilodon Fatalis

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When you were not on Council, you stated along these lines, "The Council does not do anything, I lost because of Poll Bias, I have way better ideas."
Now that you are on Council, all I hear is, "Everyone, what are your thoughts and opinions? I don't have any of my own anymore, so.. lets ask the crowd."

And before you reply, and say something along the lines of; "These are big ideas, and these things take time to discuss and implement."
Or "Voicing my opinion on the external forums would diminish the value of other player's ideas who are not on Council, as they might feel that their idea is not being heard."

We elected you..... or you were kinda given the position as a Consolation Prize since people left.
Regardless; you were picked not just to say "Yes.. yes.. I hear you.. good idea", but to say, "Hey guys, I need new ideas for an endgame, I would also like to toss my own previously formed idea in the hat as well." Then we can review them and work on tweaking them together to find the one that best fits our needs.

You can click here to see one of the end game ideas he was working on.
There are three other ideas (and a few more pending from other inner council members) that have been proposed to inner council directly, and when we get more feedback from individual inner council members we'll share those ideas here to start to work on them more and get more feedback. It's a bit pointless to share them at the moment, since if the other servers say 'no, our server won't like that' then getting feedback on it won't matter.

However, the purpose of this post in particular is NOT to gather new ideas for the end game.
The point of this post is to gather information about what people
hate the most about the end game.
And... taking that information, we're hoping to come up with a couple of ideas for a new end game that EN, other servers, and Inno might all agree to.
 

Lil Ajax

Phrourach
- Takes to long for WW Era to begin
- WW buffs are not that much use, some are repetitive
- Way they are built needs redone
Sending resources
Build
Send more resources for next level
Just ends in a buildfest