What is the best defense combination

Discussion in 'Answered Questions' started by Chamster, Aug 11, 2012.

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  1. Chamster

    Chamster New Member

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    First of all, i haven't found a thread with this subject, which is surprising, so if anybody has a link to one, just post it here.

    Now, to my question. I've been doing some calculations in space/defensive power ratios and my conclusion is that (apart from building a wall that will touch the sky and adding a tower) the best defensive set up is a bunch of charriots. Now, i wonder two things.

    1. Is that correct assessment?
    2. Should i mix units for a syngery effect or just go plainly all-chariot constellation?
     
  2. WAVEBREAKER

    WAVEBREAKER New Member

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    1. Land offense. = 3,500 farm space - 885 = 2,615 remaining.

    You will want about 40-50 LS, 100 fast transports, and the actual land units will depend on what your enemies defend with the most.

    2. LS and bireme build. = 3,500 - 850 = 2,650

    330 biremes OR 265 LS.

    3. Land wall. = 3,500 - 845 = 2,655 remaining.

    125 fast transports.
    990 swordsmen.
    310 archers.
    700 hoplites.

    This is a perfectly balanced defense, with a preference towards blunt and ranged defense.
     
  3. Chamster

    Chamster New Member

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    I'm not sure if we understood each other. I'm not talking about me attacking but me being the one to defend. I'd like to set up a set of defensive units so i don't loose my city. My game style is peaceful and i rarely attack others. So, unit transports shouldn't be needed, should they? Please advise.
     
  4. WAVEBREAKER

    WAVEBREAKER New Member

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    Look at the 3rd one in the first post.

    I gave you 4 examples of how to specialize a city.

    1) Navy Off.
    2) Navy Def.
    3) Land Off.
    4) Land Def.
     
  5. Chamster

    Chamster New Member

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    I'm sorry - i feel retarded right now. I only see three setups. Am i going blind?!

    Also, i don't understand why i need fast transports for land defense. I thought that as long i defend i won't need any naval force.

    Thanks for the help, of course. Keep it coming! :)
     
  6. Boop4U

    Boop4U New Member

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    the ships are so you can send the support to other cities unless you're a selfish D**k
     
  7. Chamster

    Chamster New Member

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    Hahaha, i didn't think of that at all. Darn, maybe i AM a selfish person. Very good point - thanks! Never the less, i didn't see a fourth strategy in the answer and i see no chariots. Aren't they the best defense unit (per space counted)?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2012
  8. Pythagorus

    Pythagorus New Member

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    no, it's not :D (but good to see that you were thinking about it at least). in fact, chariots are not a part of an efficient defence at all.


    a mix is definitely better, unless your enemies are very uncreative and only ever attack with one unit type, in which just build whichever defenders are the best defenders against that attack type per capita. but, if you don't know what units you will be attacked with then you'll want a balanced defence.


    that may be a balanced defence, but perfect? not really :p that defence comes in at 43.55 defence per capita, which is good but not perfect.

    the best defence ratio i've come across was aurave's mix of
    70 / 27 / 63
    swords/archers/hops
    (and 10 fast trans with bunks to carry them), which comes in at about 44.6 def per capita. also not perfect, but a bit better :D


    if you wanna see the maths behind it (and possibly try work out your own ratio which works out even better) then PM me ;)
    you will have to know about simultaneous equations
     
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  9. Chamster

    Chamster New Member

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    All those units are available quite early in the game. I would expect the best units to be far up into the research tree... I'm not saying you are wrong - i'm saying that i'm surprised. Are the hight level units best for offence, instead?

    I've got a M.Sc. in Mathematical Statistics, so i think i can manage an equation system, haha.
    I'd be pretty satisfied with a ratio over 40, so both your and his suggestions are hreat. Nevertheless , if you have a way to increase it even more, i'd like to hear about it.

    What did you mean by "PM me"? Make you a prime minister? Of what? And how?!
     
  10. puthia

    puthia New Member

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    Guys, now that you're talking about defense, can you give me a plan that includes also defensive mythical units? I mean a mixture/combination of land troops and mythical units that can be effective and defend well against a possible, heavy attack...
     
  11. WAVEBREAKER

    WAVEBREAKER New Member

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    Private Message....
     
  12. Chamster

    Chamster New Member

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    OMG! I'm so stupid... HAHAHA

    I really need to get more sleep. I've been working this crazy two weeks now, pulling 80+ hours a week... Maybe i AM retarded, hihi.
     
  13. Pythagorus

    Pythagorus New Member

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    if you look at the unit stats, the best (non-mythical) land attack unit is actually a slinger - available with a lvl1 academy. the higher level research is more general improvements, like phalanx, rams, mathematics, etc. in fact, the unit needing the highest level academy is a trireme, which needs a lvl25 academy. triremes happen to be one of the least favoured units in the game :D


    with an MSc in maths you should just work out and solve the system for yourself :p


    as WB said, private message.



    EDIT:
    depends which god you are talking about, but it would be possible to work it out. maybe chamster can work it out for you once he knows the inputs to the equations ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  14. puthia

    puthia New Member

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    Well, if possible, can you mention about every god's defensive units?
    For example, for defense, what is better? Pegasus, Harpies or Cerberus?
    Well, at least let me know about Athena (first!)... How many Pegasus (mixed with land troops!) are good for a defensive city? I want to raise many opinions and I want to change my tactics, or better yet, to check all tactics out... :)
     
  15. Pythagorus

    Pythagorus New Member

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    well, (other than harpies, which are attacking units and not defensive) each defensive myth has their strengths and weaknesses, just like swords/archers/hops. pegusi are the strongest against blunt attacks (e.g. horses), cerberi are strongest against ranged attack (e.g. slingers) and centaurs are strongest against sharp attack (e.g. hoplites).

    usually myths are used differently to standard troops - particularly the flying units like pegusi as they don't need transports. most players who build pegusi will just build the entire population of a city of pegusi and then use them as a fast support group. if you are just going to leave them in a city to defend then speed doesn't matter and then it would make sense to use them as part of a mixed defence, although i haven't worked out the numbers for that yet :p
     
  16. Saska

    Saska New Member

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    I would recommend going with 2/1/1 (Sword/Archers/Hoplites) in your defence cities.

    The only time I would recommend you spend the time and favour on myth defence is for Pegasus Cities, and then you would use them to 'Snipe' CS attacks and nothing more. (due to the their speed).

    But it all comes down to your style of player and your alliance's style of play.
     
  17. Pythagorus

    Pythagorus New Member

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    ok, worked out an athena city balanced defence :p

    swords/pegusi/centaurs
    296 / 3 / 9

    464 population so will need 26 fast trans to carry them all (the 60 pop worth of pegusi can fly) and works out to around 53.9 defence per capita. there are 12 empty spaces on the last transport, so you can add a few other units, or leave off 4 swords and use 25 fast trans.

    but, as saska says, i wouldn't go for that myself.



    2/1/1/ might be reasonable in the late-game when you may be holding sieges against multiple manticore nukes, but i would personally say too heavy in sharp def and light in blunt for early- to mid-game defence, where attacks are more varied (if not favouring slinger and horse attacks).
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  18. puthia

    puthia New Member

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    @Pythagorus, I meant Medusa, lol! (Not Harpy!)... Well, flying units do not need transports, that's why they are more "convenient"! Thank you for the interesting info!
    @Saska, I mostly use the "2/1/1 style", but I asked in order to gain more info... Knowledge is power ;)

    Well, do you have any comments on Cyclops? Is it worthwhile to build Cyclops up? They are good against horsemen (blunt weapons)...
    And one more thing please :(
    How many land units (swordsmen, archers or hoplites) can Pegasus "replace"? E.g., is it able to fight like 10(!?) swordsmen? Like 5? Like 20???
     
  19. Saska

    Saska New Member

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    1/1/2 is balanced, however 2/1/1 is distance heavy Pyth not sharp heavy :p


    Also it should not be noted that to support another city they have to be same god, another reason I would avoid using myth units as defence where possible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  20. puthia

    puthia New Member

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    Pythagorus, can you work out an Hades city balanced defense, please?