Pnp wonder bust by the Turtles for hire

Silver Witch

Phrourach
How about they just add an insta build feature for WW, pay 25k gold for it to work (as an alliance of course this is a team game after all)
Interesting Notty - with that maybe you guys could have used your gold to build a wonder instead of for flyers to knock ours down. Might have worked for you. We can build ours without gold so its not something we need.
 

Thizzle

Strategos
The endgame isn't flawed, you just don't like it.

However the idea of a new endgame would be exciting, in that it would be different, and would completely change the game.

In that case yes i definitely would come back to play another world and play for the win.

I will definitely enjoy my retirement thank you


No Deus, The endgame is FLAWED.

To win something means you come first, so how does it make sense that you can break down a wonder and get another win with other members?

If there was only 1 win, you wouldnt be able to have 5 alliances to compete with, but it would be 1 on 1 on 1 and that would make the endgame less flawed

Silverwitch i got nothing against building WWs as one alliance, the problem comes when we have to leave behind the way the game was meant to be played, and merge with 4-5 other alliances to become one just to compete for WWs

If it was a MGGA vs Noobs competition we would had competed, but when its MGGA x5 vs Noobs, that is no competition.
And yes you can say we got "outplayed" id rather argue that we didnt want to sell out to get a crown for any cost
 

Notmad

Phrourach
Interesting Notty - with that maybe you guys could have used your gold to build a wonder instead of for flyers to knock ours down. Might have worked for you. We can build ours without gold so its not something we need.
I was saying it as a joke, sarcastically. Totally irrelevant to the topic.
 

Notmad

Phrourach
To make a point relevant to the topic now, Deus said it was MGGA versus the whole world and that the whole world couldn't beat them to build 1 wonder.

MGGA had 4 alliances if not 5 working closely for res distribution. For defending they had 5.

For the rest of the world there were only teams of 2 not cooperating for resources. And teams of about 4 for defending.

Knowing that 1 DLU city with appropriate build (wall 25) can withstand at least 3 OLU cities we can then Say that there needs to be ~20 alliances attacking one city for it to break. 20 as MGGA alliances have more cities than other alliances on average.

There were nowhere near 20 alliances attacking you properly and nowhere near 5 alliances cooperating to build WW.
 

Raydium88

Phrourach
The way the end game design is flawed, is precisely because fun and victory cannot coexist.

Once alliances start to dream, they will lay that fun factor aside. And this does not only impact their own players but the rest of the server. Competitivity is simply gone!

For Wonders it is absolutely imperative to have numbers. A skilled group of players can face being outnumbered in a war scenario. But they cannot compete on a pure numbers game.

We had an ally cap of 35! Naturally there would be sisters. You guys at some point had 134 players (I got a screeny somewhere I gotta find it), and I believe that defeats the purpose of the small cap in the first place.... no? Are you going to try to deny that?

To me if one enjoys the current end game, that's... ok, I guess. But rotation shouldn't be a viable option nor the resource exchange between sisters and main. This to prevent the stagnation of a server months before WW era, but also stop the crown abuse we currently have.

This emotion is undeniably featured all over the community. And if we are a community we are entitled to provide feedback on our discontentment.

Now do not force me to play the game like that. If I don't want to have sisters, if I don't want to have many pacts, if I wanna fight in an outnumbered scenario... of course I made it hard mode for myself and my players. But thats a choice of gameplay, not whether we want to win or lose.

Grepo isn't a career. Is a game. Enjoy it, or win and walk away.
 

Silver Witch

Phrourach
The way the end game design is flawed, is precisely because fun and victory cannot coexist.

Once alliances start to dream, they will lay that fun factor aside. And this does not only impact their own players but the rest of the server. Competitivity is simply gone!

For Wonders it is absolutely imperative to have numbers. A skilled group of players can face being outnumbered in a war scenario. But they cannot compete on a pure numbers game.

We had an ally cap of 35! Naturally there would be sisters. You guys at some point had 134 players (I got a screeny somewhere I gotta find it), and I believe that defeats the purpose of the small cap in the first place.... no? Are you going to try to deny that?

To me if one enjoys the current end game, that's... ok, I guess. But rotation shouldn't be a viable option nor the resource exchange between sisters and main. This to prevent the stagnation of a server months before WW era, but also stop the crown abuse we currently have.

This emotion is undeniably featured all over the community. And if we are a community we are entitled to provide feedback on our discontentment.

Now do not force me to play the game like that. If I don't want to have sisters, if I don't want to have many pacts, if I wanna fight in an outnumbered scenario... of course I made it hard mode for myself and my players. But thats a choice of gameplay, not whether we want to win or lose.

Grepo isn't a career. Is a game. Enjoy it, or win and walk away.
I think you make good points. I just also think that maybe what you describe is possible with just a little compromise.
I don't believe its possible for 1 alliance to get 7 all at once but maybe 4. Maybe not even that. However if enough '1 alliances' actually planned from the start to build we should get more split wonders. The fighting after ww when 4 is still up for grabs is probably the best of all.

If all the guys who are top fighters decide they want to fight only and don't prepare at all then you fulfil your own prophecy and flaw the endgame.
 

Raydium88

Phrourach
I think you make good points. I just also think that maybe what you describe is possible with just a little compromise.
I don't believe its possible for 1 alliance to get 7 all at once but maybe 4. Maybe not even that. However if enough '1 alliances' actually planned from the start to build we should get more split wonders. The fighting after ww when 4 is still up for grabs is probably the best of all.

If all the guys who are top fighters decide they want to fight only and don't prepare at all then you fulfil your own prophecy and flaw the endgame.
I would like to see it being done. Simply it does not boil down to 1 team's will to keep a server's competitivity very much alive.

My own experience tells me it is extremely unlikely (not to say impossible). This is where you, or someone must prove me wrong.

So from the choices I have: start day 1 preparing for WWs, OR or fight the whole server with no WW plans... I much rather take the 2nd choice, knowing perfectly well some MRA will rise and take the crown home. It doesn't affect me whatsoever.
 

Silver Witch

Phrourach
I would like to see it being done. Simply it does not boil down to 1 team's will to keep a server's competitivity very much alive.

My own experience tells me it is extremely unlikely (not to say impossible). This is where you, or someone must prove me wrong.

So from the choices I have: start day 1 preparing for WWs, OR or fight the whole server with no WW plans... I much rather take the 2nd choice, knowing perfectly well some MRA will rise and take the crown home. It doesn't affect me whatsoever.
So - compromise. Fight for 6 weeks - 2 months and then start a little prep. Watch what happens and keep it under review.

The last time i saw a 4 win in contention was a long time ago. Before the increase in city points. WW took 10 months. That gave lots of alliances prep time and time to gain strength. There was a central mra - they messed up.

Makes u think actually - maybe its time that flaws the end game. The faster the world the less chance of a small group becoming competitive.
 

princess Kuini

Phrourach
Good god what a lot of blah lol.. Just to clear things up, Shadies didnt employ spies, we didnt entertain them either, If Shaz was passed info it wasnt because of a Shady. Integrity is so paramount to having a great game that no leader and certainly no founder of ours would even entertain the idea. (Talking to Shaz is just hard for me to imagine any of my leaders doing much less passing info to him).
Regardless of that, I dont believe MGGA had a spy in our camp neither, (if they did he was terrible at it). I enjoyed our fight, learnt more of the game for it. Not going to whinge about its the endgame flaw or the MRA story, yous won because you remained focused and driven..
That is all
 

Silver Witch

Phrourach
Is not about the destination but the ride.
I get the viewpoint but its a game, with a winner. I don't think you play properly if you only play one part. If you don't play to win you have an advantage in the fighting. If theres a mix like that i guess probably it should work overall but with that attitude i can't see it matters to you who wins - MRA or not. In fact maybe you encourage the growth of an MRA - there comes a point where your fighting power is too much for a similar alliance who are trying to do both so rather than crumble they merge - MRA in the making.

i wish this discussion was in a proper thread - this one is about a wonder bust!
 

AresSpear8

Strategos
Been gone for a bit so apologies for the late reply to this thread and for the fact it is off topic for the intended subject. MGGA "won" as defined by the parameters of the game (congratulations) but I think some of what is trying to be conveyed to them is that none of the other alliances cared about winning but felt forced at the end to build wonders as a deterrent rather than pursue a victory. No one wanted to build wonders but MGGA........we at Shadies from day one said we were not going to build wonders and we don't care who wins, we just want to have fun and kill stuff. I personally lobbied for no one to build wonders and let MGGA have at it. Look how many of our players quit when wonders started, that was always the plan for most of us on this server.

Just so I can say something on topic.........nice bust Erik but the rumor has it you were only in this world to test the battle villages? I remember you joined Emporion just to "observe" us in Syndicate and then ended up leading the coalition against us. I sense a pattern.
 

DeusVult

Chiliarch
Been gone for a bit so apologies for the late reply to this thread and for the fact it is off topic for the intended subject. MGGA "won" as defined by the parameters of the game (congratulations) but I think some of what is trying to be conveyed to them is that none of the other alliances cared about winning but felt forced at the end to build wonders as a deterrent rather than pursue a victory. No one wanted to build wonders but MGGA........we at Shadies from day one said we were not going to build wonders and we don't care who wins, we just want to have fun and kill stuff. I personally lobbied for no one to build wonders and let MGGA have at it. Look how many of our players quit when wonders started, that was always the plan for most of us on this server.

Just so I can say something on topic.........nice bust Erik but the rumor has it you were only in this world to test the battle villages? I remember you joined Emporion just to "observe" us in Syndicate and then ended up leading the coalition against us. I sense a pattern.
I hear you ares, but just because no one wanted to play the game to win, doesn't take anything away from our victory. The entire alliance worked hard and put a lot of time and dedication into winning. To say we won based solely on numbers is far from accurate, and is simple propaganda for the sheep.

No one forced anyone to build wonders. But the fact the entire world raced us, with alliances picking 1 wonder each to race us on- a loose form of collaboration, possibly even a coalition, actually adds to our victory. If no one had raced us for wonders it would have made it a more of a hollow victory, as I'm sure you knew, and that is why you lobbied for it.

So the fact the world tried to build wonders to be a "deterrent" actually had the opposite intended effect- it instead served to make for a sweeter victory when we won.

If anyone paying attention to this forum may have noticed I never once said "MGGA will win". Many times I said things along the lines of "We will see how the world plays out" or "Nothing is set in stone, anybody could win or block the wonders".

Alot of sheep on here were far too overconfident that MGGA would never win wonders. There were a few theories, bluffs, and traitorous moves that were pulled to try and demoralize, or stop us.


-Reproduction trying to play mind games by saying he had a traitor(His own brother in fact)on our WW Island Team, which he would have ghost just before we won the crown. Although this very idea was despicable it garnered quite a bit of praise from those who are Anti-MGGA on here. This led to a review of our WW Team, and in the end, we concluded, it was, in fact, BS as suspected. It sure did give alot of noobs and rim alliances hope and our leadership received some funny pms about how we would never win because of reproductions mythical brother who would ghost our wonders.

-Thizzle and Noobs leadership running a PR campaign on here to try and convince our branch members that MGGA leadership was scamming them out of a crown, and we would never have rotations. Again a despicable, and disgusting idea. One that we put to rest when we gave a crown to every deserving branch member who wanted one.

-The SohniEST and olympicwar traitor handoffs. This was noobs only hope and play to stop us from winning the WW's. By getting a free ticket from the traitors into our core they were able to gain an advantage of almost 40 close quarters CS ready cities by our WW's. If we had done the same thing to them, the entire externals would have been filled with outraged and crying noobs members.

And in fact, we did have the opportunity to do the same to them when several of their members jumped to us early on, yet we didn't. It goes to show the difference in sportsmanship between the 2 teams.

These are just a few examples that stick out in my mind. It was clear cut who was playing dirty- and who was playing clean.

MGGA played with honor, we did not once lower ourselves to low blows. This is why the only ammunition our opposition has against us is the fact that we merged with Synergy.

I am sure some noob will come out and say "But Smurfy was spying on us!". Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, however even if he was, it was not leadership condoned, nor an ongoing alliance operation. At this point even if he was I wouldn't care. You lose the informal gentleman's agreement between 2 alliances when you arrange handoffs to be stacked with 3-4k FTS each on the enemies core with traitors. You cannot in any way, shape, or form label that as an honorable move.

In the end, it is not our fault you didn't want to build wonders. You cannot blame or disparage a team for winning a game how it is meant to be played in its current form.

Food for thought next server
 
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DeusVult

Chiliarch
By the way... I think it should be mentioned that the reason the traitors jumped was that they were convinced MGGA leadership wouldn't give the team crowns. They asked for us to make a pledge that we would, in fact, give crowns to every deserving member on our team... as soon as we announced the pledge for main branch members to sign, they jumped to noobs like the cowards they are.

They were quite hysterical that we were liars and cheats, and that they wouldn't get their precious crown. Which is funny. They clearly don't know me or they would know I would never have that on my reputation that I scammed my own WW buddies out of a crown.(I assigned them to me as WW resource buddies once we had them marked as potential traitors and troublemakers)

Now they live sleepless nights as long as they play on pagasae. And any future world they run into us for that matter.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
-The SohniEST and olympicwar traitor handoffs. This was noobs only hope and play to stop us from winning the WW's. By getting a free ticket from the traitors into our core they were able to gain an advantage of almost 40 close quarters CS ready cities by our WW's. If we had done the same thing to them, the entire externals would have been filled with outraged and crying noobs members.
Interesting point. You did actually get a defector who kept their cities in our core ocean when they jumped ship: Wacotitus. No, he didn't hand those cities over to teammates, but he did get a significant amount of support from MGGA and Turtles to those cities. So MGGA did effectively rely on a traitor to get cities in our core ocean. The only reason that it didn't get the same amount of publicity is that it happened a little earlier on, rather than just before the WW stage.

I am sure some noob will come out and say "But Smurfy was spying on us!". Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, however even if he was, it was not leadership condoned, nor an ongoing alliance operation.
- No need for the word "maybe", Deus. He admitted to spying, and even though both you and him later tried to laugh it off as a joke due to the backlash, we saw proof posted here on the externals that he was a spy. Smurfy also claimed at the time that it was leadership-condoned. Whether or not that is true in terms of the whole leadership agreeing, we will probably never know. However unless Smurfy is lying about the fact that he was/is in MGGA leadership, then the spying was condoned by leadership to some extent. Because either he was a leader when he was spying, or he was later promoted to leadership after everyone knew he had been using spies.

These are just a few examples that stick out in my mind. It was clear cut who was playing dirty- and who was playing clean.
MGGA played with honor, we did not once lower ourselves to low blows. This is why the only ammunition our opposition has against us is the fact that we merged with Synergy.
Personally, I don't think any team played completely cleanly on this server. That includes MGGA.

The other funny thing is that Deus always used to mock me on here for the length of my posts. Yet here he is writing a full length essay to try and glorify his team and spread his propaganda.
 

DeusVult

Chiliarch
Interesting point. You did actually get a defector who kept their cities in our core ocean when they jumped ship: Wacotitus. No, he didn't hand those cities over to teammates, but he did get a significant amount of support from MGGA and Turtles to those cities. So MGGA did effectively rely on a traitor to get cities in our core ocean. The only reason that it didn't get the same amount of publicity is that it happened a little earlier on, rather than just before the WW stage.


- No need for the word "maybe", Deus. He admitted to spying, and even though both you and him later tried to laugh it off as a joke due to the backlash, we saw proof posted here on the externals that he was a spy. Smurfy also claimed at the time that it was leadership-condoned. Whether or not that is true in terms of the whole leadership agreeing, we will probably never know. However unless Smurfy is lying about the fact that he was/is in MGGA leadership, then the spying was condoned by leadership to some extent. Because either he was a leader when he was spying, or he was later promoted to leadership after everyone knew he had been using spies.


Personally, I don't think any team played completely cleanly on this server. That includes MGGA.

The other funny thing is that Deus always used to mock me on here for the length of my posts. Yet here he is writing a full length essay to try and glorify his team and spread his propaganda.
It's the first time I've posted on this external(en97) in several weeks.

You will take every opportunity to write a full-length essay. I've always found it amusing that if you put that much effort into actually playing you might even be a half decent player.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
It's the first time I've posted on this external(en97) in several weeks.
You will take every opportunity to write a full-length essay. I've always found it amusing that if you put that much effort into actually playing you might even be a half decent player.

It's the first time I have posted here in a while, too. It doesn't change the fact that you used to mock me for long posts, yet you do it and defend it when it suits you. That pretty much sums up your attitude in general: when someone calls you out on it, you defend your actions, yet if someone else does the same thing, you slate them for it.

It is pretty amusing how you had to pick on that part of my post and avoid the parts proving that some of your recent claims are rather flimsy.


Maybe I am a bad player. I'm definitely no veteran of this game. However, if you think that my stats make me a rubbish player, what about those in MGGA who are below me in points and/or BP rankings? Are you saying that none of them are even half-decent players either?